Go all-in on telepresence

[Mephane]

I may not like the telepresence explanation for the various things (SLFs, multi-crew), but it is clear now that it is there to stay. Considering that

* it has work at a level of detail that it is for you and others as if you were actually there,
* can be initiated across interstellar distances without time delay,

it makes little sense that anyone is physically piloting any ship at all in the ED universe, and many of the limitations regarding data transfer appear outdated, too.

This request is not meant in a satirical manner. If we are going to have that level of telepresence, it would have ramifications for a lot more things and would make a lot of old limitations obsolete. Therefore, I suggest/request the following changes for consistency between the various parts of lore and game mechanics:

* All of the following points apply to SLFs and SRVs as well.
* Pilots are no longer physically present in ships, but always fly by telepresence.
* NPC crew no longer die with ship destruction, as they are not physically present on the ship, either.
* Remove all black-out and red-out effects from the game.
* Since passenger cabins have their own dedicated life support, remove life support modules from all ships and the corresponding engineer blueprints from all engineers.
* Change cockpit glass canopy to solid metal when seen from the outside, but let them still look as we are used to from the inside (the latter is just a computer rendering anyway).
* Remove all mechanics related to broken canopies and emergency oxygen.
* Add full control and HUD in the new externel camera, even for the pilot. It is all a computer rendering anyway.
* Add remote selling of exploration data, bounty vouchers, combat bonds.
* Add remote completion of any mission that does not require returning a physical item (e.g. massacre).
* Add remote browsing of and interaction with any station menu from anywhere. Everything that does not require the transfer of a physical item or passengers is possible remotely.
* Docking computer is no longer a physical module, as the software could run on any hardware located wherever the pilot actually resides. Change it to take a new slot like the planetary landing suite, consuming no ship-board power, adding no mass and taking up no internal space.
* Add remote ship and module transfer. The transfer times and fees stay unchanged, but you can send any of your assets from anywhere to anywhere without having to first visit the place.
* Add remote ship switching. You don't need to fly where the other ship is parked, you just switch instantly to it as your telepresence end-point (if your ship is in space, it disappears in the same manner as if you log out, with the same restrictions regarding 15 second combat timer etc).

 

[Trueno33]

I would hope telepresence to be a placeholder until we have legs. But I fear this "lorelogic" breaker will stay.
Now it's just a videogame, not an experience among the stars. Shame

 

[who?]

From a logical, lore, and consistency point of view all those changes make sense. The lore/technological consistency in the game seems to be fairly warped at this point.

But personally I wouldn't touch the game if those changes were made.

 

[Mephane]

I would hope telepresence to be a placeholder until we have legs. But I fear this "lorelogic" breaker will stay.

Regardless whether there is a telepresence explanation or a "it's just a game" handwavium, instant-multi-crew transfer cannot be reversed without a massive backlash. Imagine after possibly years of instant-multi-crew, they add space legs and for anything we now have to spend minutes doing stuff like walking from cockpit to airlock to the other ship. No one would want to give up the convenience.

 

[who?]

Regardless whether there is a telepresence explanation or a "it's just a game" handwavium, instant-multi-crew transfer cannot be reversed without a massive backlash. Imagine after possibly years of instant-multi-crew, they add space legs and for anything we now have to spend minutes doing stuff like walking from cockpit to airlock to the other ship. No one would want to give up the convenience.

I suspect they'll co-exist. Holo-me is for pick up 'n' play instant fun. But if you want the whole hog - FPS, EVA, getting into SRV, swapping helm etc. - you'll need to be there 'in person'.

 

[MrPapaGiorgiio]

I would hope telepresence to be a placeholder until we have legs. But I fear this "lorelogic" breaker will stay.
Now it's just a videogame, not an experience among the stars. Shame

It has always been just a videogame.

 

[777Driver]

Regardless whether there is a telepresence explanation or a "it's just a game" handwavium, instant-multi-crew transfer cannot be reversed without a massive backlash. Imagine after possibly years of instant-multi-crew, they add space legs and for anything we now have to spend minutes doing stuff like walking from cockpit to airlock to the other ship. No one would want to give up the convenience.

Telepresence obviously has limitations on what the crew member can do, I would expect incentives for actually being a physical crew member on a ship. For a start, currently the only way to be a helmsman is to be physically onboard the ship, I would expect the same if/when they ever add more in depth roles like engineer/navigator/ships cat..

 

[Trueno33]

Regardless whether there is a telepresence explanation or a "it's just a game" handwavium, instant-multi-crew transfer cannot be reversed without a massive backlash. Imagine after possibly years of instant-multi-crew, they add space legs and for anything we now have to spend minutes doing stuff like walking from cockpit to airlock to the other ship. No one would want to give up the convenience.

That's precisely why I say there's no turning back in this mechanic, yes

 

[Trueno33]

It has always been just a videogame.

But there are levels of realism in videogames. I'd rather get lost in an alien world than keep staring at a screen for hours. You know what I mean

 

[Joe Akeem]

I would hope telepresence to be a placeholder until we have legs. But I fear this "lorelogic" breaker will stay.

^What he said.

 

[Vorxian]

Out of curiosity.. from SOL, how long do folks expect a signal, a telepresence signal to reach Colonia (for example) to say push fire, and then for the signal to come all the way back to SOL so the person pushing fire can see the gun shoot?

I'm going to guess many years, could be my great great great great great great great great great great great great great great great great great great great great great great great great great great great great great great great great grand children will be able to see the result?

 

[Iskariot]

I may not like the telepresence explanation for the various things (SLFs, multi-crew), but it is clear now that it is there to stay. Considering that

* it has work at a level of detail that it is for you and others as if you were actually there,
* can be initiated across interstellar distances without time delay,

it makes little sense that anyone is physically piloting any ship at all in the ED universe, and many of the limitations regarding data transfer appear outdated, too.

This request is not meant in a satirical manner. If we are going to have that level of telepresence, it would have ramifications for a lot more things and would make a lot of old limitations obsolete. Therefore, I suggest/request the following changes for consistency between the various parts of lore and game mechanics:

* All of the following points apply to SLFs and SRVs as well.
* Pilots are no longer physically present in ships, but always fly by telepresence.
* NPC crew no longer die with ship destruction, as they are not physically present on the ship, either.
* Remove all black-out and red-out effects from the game.
* Since passenger cabins have their own dedicated life support, remove life support modules from all ships and the corresponding engineer blueprints from all engineers.
* Change cockpit glass canopy to solid metal when seen from the outside, but let them still look as we are used to from the inside (the latter is just a computer rendering anyway).
* Remove all mechanics related to broken canopies and emergency oxygen.
* Add full control and HUD in the new externel camera, even for the pilot. It is all a computer rendering anyway.
* Add remote selling of exploration data, bounty vouchers, combat bonds.
* Add remote completion of any mission that does not require returning a physical item (e.g. massacre).
* Add remote browsing of and interaction with any station menu from anywhere. Everything that does not require the transfer of a physical item or passengers is possible remotely.
* Docking computer is no longer a physical module, as the software could run on any hardware located wherever the pilot actually resides. Change it to take a new slot like the planetary landing suite, consuming no ship-board power, adding no mass and taking up no internal space.
* Add remote ship and module transfer. The transfer times and fees stay unchanged, but you can send any of your assets from anywhere to anywhere without having to first visit the place.
* Add remote ship switching. You don't need to fly where the other ship is parked, you just switch instantly to it as your telepresence end-point (if your ship is in space, it disappears in the same manner as if you log out, with the same restrictions regarding 15 second combat timer etc).

I disagree with removing physical presence entirely.
When walking around is introduced removing actual presence will cause problems.
I want to be able to leave my ship.
I want to be able to walk around on alien airless planets in a spacesuit.
I want to be able to leave my ship in space.

I just consider telepresence to be a nice mechanic for multicrew. I am fine with that.

I would like to be able to use telepresence to control my SRV though, and not just SRV. A fast flying remote controlled drone would be cool.

 

[Doc_Holiday]

I may not like the telepresence explanation for the various things (SLFs, multi-crew), but it is clear now that it is there to stay. Considering that

* it has work at a level of detail that it is for you and others as if you were actually there,
* can be initiated across interstellar distances without time delay,

it makes little sense that anyone is physically piloting any ship at all in the ED universe, and many of the limitations regarding data transfer appear outdated, too.

This request is not meant in a satirical manner. If we are going to have that level of telepresence, it would have ramifications for a lot more things and would make a lot of old limitations obsolete. Therefore, I suggest/request the following changes for consistency between the various parts of lore and game mechanics:

* All of the following points apply to SLFs and SRVs as well.
* Pilots are no longer physically present in ships, but always fly by telepresence.
* NPC crew no longer die with ship destruction, as they are not physically present on the ship, either.
* Remove all black-out and red-out effects from the game.
* Since passenger cabins have their own dedicated life support, remove life support modules from all ships and the corresponding engineer blueprints from all engineers.
* Change cockpit glass canopy to solid metal when seen from the outside, but let them still look as we are used to from the inside (the latter is just a computer rendering anyway).
* Remove all mechanics related to broken canopies and emergency oxygen.
* Add full control and HUD in the new externel camera, even for the pilot. It is all a computer rendering anyway.
* Add remote selling of exploration data, bounty vouchers, combat bonds.
* Add remote completion of any mission that does not require returning a physical item (e.g. massacre).
* Add remote browsing of and interaction with any station menu from anywhere. Everything that does not require the transfer of a physical item or passengers is possible remotely.
* Docking computer is no longer a physical module, as the software could run on any hardware located wherever the pilot actually resides. Change it to take a new slot like the planetary landing suite, consuming no ship-board power, adding no mass and taking up no internal space.
* Add remote ship and module transfer. The transfer times and fees stay unchanged, but you can send any of your assets from anywhere to anywhere without having to first visit the place.
* Add remote ship switching. You don't need to fly where the other ship is parked, you just switch instantly to it as your telepresence end-point (if your ship is in space, it disappears in the same manner as if you log out, with the same restrictions regarding 15 second combat timer etc).

I posted pretty much the same thing satirically in one of the earlier threads. Telepresence is a very poor explanation and needs to die.
It opens up this whole can of worms of things that should be possible due to telepresence, but are not possible "just because".

To explain away the instant switching to a ship, having the person joining assume the role "body" of an NPC crew member, even if the NPC crew do not offer the same bonuses and extra pips as player crew do, it would have kept the lore intact and appeased everyone, rather than splitting the player base. (Probably a run on sentence, busy rambling)
I don't know why anyone would be opposed to what I've just described, and why it wouldn't have been a better answer than holograms that will probably still die after a canopy breach.

 

[Mephane]

Telepresence obviously has limitations on what the crew member can do, I would expect incentives for actually being a physical crew member on a ship. For a start, currently the only way to be a helmsman is to be physically onboard the ship, I would expect the same if/when they ever add more in depth roles like engineer/navigator/ships cat..

I don't think not because of some physical presence of the pilot; after all, you can pilot an SLF via telepresence, too. More likely a technical limitation in the game engine, or some gameplay considerations ("what if they fly my ship into a neutron star") that FD simply avoid having to solve.

Edit: Also, for future EVA/space legs/etc gameplay, I suspect we will just remotely control android bodies that are stored aboard the ship...

 

[Cablefast]

I could get behind the idea that we are not actually piloting our ship via flesh and blood bodies.

But it seems strange that such an idea would come about this late in the game's development, and out of the blue no less. It's strikes me as a weak excuse to justify a mechanic the devs want to implement but can't integrate into their lore.

To be clear, when I say this mechanic isn't supported by the game's lore I'm talking about communications technology. ED started as a game where humanity's comms are limited. For example, consider that we:
-Must dock to sell exploration data
-Must dock to look at the mission board
-Must dock to see trade data
** We can even be paid to transport data!!**

But there are other aspects of the game that suggest humanity's technology is less limited:
-Ship email (accessible anywhere in the Galaxy, some of them even suggest that my actions are being monitored in real time)
-Ship GALNET (again, updated and available galaxy wide)
-Kill warrant scanner (scan takes seconds to check in with every faction in known space)
**These bothered me a little
-Localized SLF telepresence: This was the first major departure from the games previously established internal consistency. It suggested that humanity in ED has: instant, reliable, private, high bandwidth communication technology that is limited in range to 30K.
**This bothered me a lot.

I do not like that any of these exceptions exist in the game without a satisfying explanation. But the idea of crew telepresence takes it to another level. Its existence means that humanity has access to instant, reliable, private, low cost, high bandwidth, galaxy wide communication technology.
instant: no delay in ship piloting input
reliable: not susceptible to jamming or interment outage
private: not susceptible to snooping
low cost: anyone can do it without charge
high bandwidth: has enough bandwidth to carry telemetry data from your ship to you and your inputs to the ship
galaxy wide: works anywhere in the galaxy

This technology should completely change how humanity operates in the ED universe. It doesn't take a genius to see some major consistency problems here. Here are a couple:
-Why must I dock to take non-cargo/non-passanger missions?
-Why does my SLF pilot has to die with my ship?

Some other thoughts: Go all-in on telepresence as a viable concept for ship piloting (as OP suggests) but also have an option to pilot the ship in person.
-Piloted ships are iron-man mode while telepresence ships are the normal game.
-Telepresence ships have a small overhead cost.

 

[MyHammer]

Not meant satirically? If said changes are coming even anywhere near your ideas this game is as dead as can be. I really do hope that telepresence in the way we have it atm is only a work in progress and will be obsolete when legs arrive someday.

 

[[VR] Mad Mike]

I don't think not because of some physical presence of the pilot; after all, you can pilot an SLF via telepresence, too. More likely a technical limitation in the game engine, or some gameplay considerations ("what if they fly my ship into a neutron star") that FD simply avoid having to solve.

Edit: Also, for future EVA/space legs/etc gameplay, I suspect we will just remotely control android bodies that are stored aboard the ship...

Telepresence for slf i am fine with as it has a plausible distance limit. Perhaps increase by a few km and use for srv (or dont and if you want to telepresence srv your ship follows you with your other pilot. Without npc ships crew however to act as avatar for multicrew imp FD would be better of not acknowledging it at all and it just IS until mire fleshed out mechanics allow it to be plausible. As already explained magic teleporting holograms with limitless range and no lag just causes too many issues to write into lore

IF FD insist on it being lore i hope they also write in it being hacked and made unusable once better mechanics usurp it

 

[bobylein]

I see your points about consistency but having telepresence over more than the local area just seems stupid to me and going full on it would break the whole game feeling for me personally, I want to experience the danger and have the feeling that I am discover other planets IN PERSON not just via drone...

I see the reason why multicrew should be an instant thing, it's just a way better gameplay mechanic if you compare it to: "Let's meet and then you can't leave my ship until we meet again".
I just think the devs shouldn't have used that telepresence over the whole galaxy, it breaks my immersion way worse than a "You are regular crew on the ship, that's why you are here" could ever do.

Also telepresence on figthers and maybe SRV's is something I find plausible, as it just makes sense to not sit yourself in a fragile fighter and it's very distance limited (on fighters, that is)

 

[CmdrKull]

I disagree with removing physical presence entirely.
When walking around is introduced removing actual presence will cause problems.
I want to be able to leave my ship.
I want to be able to walk around on alien airless planets in a spacesuit.
I want to be able to leave my ship in space.

I just consider telepresence to be a nice mechanic for multicrew. I am fine with that.

I would like to be able to use telepresence to control my SRV though, and not just SRV. A fast flying remote controlled drone would be cool.

In addition to that, I personally wouldn't trust my ship to telepresence were they both real things. I'd want to be there, able to respond appropriately when needed.

 

[yodajedifishmaster]

if you are going to prevent me physically flying my asp ex in deep space, there is GOING to be lag in controls when you are 14k ly away no matter how good your telepresence comms remote control is. my asp ex would have been destroyed in 2 separate systems if you used remote control. and if you have good enough instant comms why cant i sell data from deep space rather than have to fly to a station?

nope. i could care less what gankers in open want to do and how some are ing about mul;ticrew but in solo it should not affect me piloting my ship. or else i could set my asp to make its own way home scooping and jumping on auto pilot and take my credits and just instantly go to my FAS and finish buidling it and fly around doing combat missions unitl my asp docks. which btw will have to make the asp on autopilot INVULNERABLE to any kind of attack or damage at all while im not in it.