Going against your own word - "infiltrators" please note

[Ouberos]

Here's the thing. I'm not shaming anyone. It is an individual's actions that bring shame upon themselves. I'm merely a dispassionate observer to that fact.

In the context of a no-PvP combat Private Group, it *ought not to be* dog eat dog. That's the entire point of such a PG. Joining it with the intent to bring havoc marks that player out as not to be trusted. Simply as a result of their own actions.

And here I was thinking that where "games" with "rules" are concerned, we, as a group, expect, nee *demand* each other to act in a trustworthy manner. And here we are. Your post makes it"appear" that you accept untrustworthy players with open arms into your game space. Don't we all have enough of this to put up with outside of our leisure time without accepting it is our time playing games based upon "rules"?

Cheerz

Mark H

Can confirm Phisto Sobanii accepts untrustworthy players into his game space.

As a Pirate I am not to be trusted. I tried to Rob the DW2 Rares Warehouse bit they double sixed me with a mostly empty Cutter.

You see the logistics arm was quite well prepared for charming rogues like myself.

Also it would appear to be a statement of fact that to me, you seem just just a little upset. Just a smidge. But that's ok. Because it proves you are in fact Human and not some robot that always follows the rules and behaves in a predictable fashion.

 

[biot]

"ad hominem: adj.

Appealing to personal considerations rather than to logic or reason: "

The OP's post was both logical and reasonable and Ouberos' post was too. The tone (words chosen by the OP set the tone) was such that a very logical conclusion regarding the state of the poster's post would lead a logical and reasonable person to conclude that the OP was in fact upset. In short Ouberos did not base his conclusion on emotion.

There was no ad hominem.

I imagine that your intent was good but execution was flawed.

Ad hominem in the sense that the reply decided to discuss the emotional state of the poster, rather than the content of the post itself. Fair enough?

 

[Phisto Sobanii]

Can confirm Phisto Sobanii accepts untrustworthy players into his game space.

It’s because I’ve gotten to know you and trust you to be who I’ve discovered you to be.

And isn’t that it? How the hell can we talk about something as intimate as trust with people that are ultimately strangers?

So some random screwed up your PG for a hot minute. Big deal. Easily dealt with and forgotten. If it was a dear and trusted friend, though? NOW you can start talking about trust, y’all.

 

[Ouberos]

Ad hominem in the sense that the reply decided to discuss the emotional state of the poster, rather than the content of the post itself. Fair enough?

If you could do me a favour and work the word Asinine into one of your posts I would genuinely become a little emotional.

Call me a sentimental old fool but I miss the old days.

Also in reference to your original critique of my argument I would simply say that to me and my overdeveloped sense of empathy, the OP seemed upset and I was concerned he may wish to open up a little further.

 

[Mengy]

Frontier could really easily fix these issues if they wanted to. It is unfathomable why there simply isn't a way to set up a PG where PvP just isn't possible. Many other online games do this. With a simple fix like that threads like this wouldn't even need to exist.

Yes Frontier could address this issue if they wanted to. They simply don't want to, for whatever reason.


Good thread Rampant, and you are correct.

 

[ZeroAi]

Players who deliberately infiltrate a no-PvP Private Group - please take note.

Entering into an agreement, as a person, and then going against that agreement, as a person, is an entirely different thing than your "character" might do as a fifth columnist pledging to a power.

The PG agreement is between the *players*, not their "characters", and reneging on your agreement is not an acceptable act for the person to perform.

You enter into the agreement as a person, not the character in the game, so it is not acceptable to call this "fifth column" or be the person's "character as a saboteur".

Your agreement is between people and should be treated as sacrosanct.

There is a world of difference between how your character acts in game, and how you, as a person, act after giving your agreement to a set of rules.

Yours Aye

Mark H

Truly something that should not have to be said, but will always need to be...

...just like we'll always need the police as there will always be criminals, we'll always need TOUs, COCs, and EULAs, as well as those who can ban users who break them.

 

[Auronio]

If anything this thread taught me a few new words - dictionary I like you - e.g. subterfuge ...

With regards to the OPs message - I agree.

Even more if I see the parallel thread/post of Gank them all down to Beagle point ... ever growing.

Which personally I consider much more childish than this one.

Methods to avoid a PvP threat in any game mode are known and if FDev decided not to technically make it impossible that's a clear message in itself.

(Side note: I am still looking for the PvP gankers who took me out last year and by purpose didn't block them cause I still hope to once meet them again - one by one - in open. Most likely won't happen though.)

Bottom line - please don't confuse real life and a game.
It's a game - nothing more, nothing less.

And I hope for everybody he or she does the same like me when playing it - enjoying.

o7

 

[Ignition]

Elite Dangerous is a "CUTTHROAT GALAXY"

 

[Old Duck]

Elite Dangerous is a "CUTTHROAT GALAXY"

Starring Geena Davis?

 

[[VR] Mad Mike]

I'll just leave this here:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Military_deception

You seem to not be getting the OP or are being deliberately obtuse.
Choosing a mode is an out of game act. You agree to the rules of the PG by entering and if you break those specific rules. It is nothing to do with warfare.
Look at it this way, you play cards, say poker, there is nothing physically stopping you from using a marked deck or hiding cards... But doing it is an out of game act and "opponent should have paid more attention to the pack and my dealing " is not a viable excuse.

 

[[VR] M4st0d0n]

We could real do with some in game tools for directly adjusting game rules for a PG.
If you could make a PG explicitly PvE that would mitigate this whole conversation. If people were behaving nicely that wouldn't be necessary and I'm not convinced it is preferable but since people aren't playing nicely it probably is preferable. Hey ho.

Friendly fire ON/OFF is one of the most basic mod... This game simply lacks direction and has severe technical debt from modular design. It's like they wanted to invent so much, by the time they had to launch, they forgot the wheel.

 

[BigBANGtheory [VR]]

Its an agreement between players in the context of a game, enevitably there will be some who don't give a damn.

Does that make them untrustworthy if they break that agreement? Yes of course it does and they don't care or will hide behind anonymity.

Log their names and blacklist them from your PG, name and shame them if you wish (on a forum that permits that), that is the PvE environment Frontier have given us.

 

[[VR] Mad Mike]

I'm not ranting. I'm not even trying to suggest ways around it or ways to police it.

This thread is simply to highlight the *fact* that if a player don't give a damn about breaking their word, *their* agreement, entered into freely, then the cold hard fact of the matter is that the player is untrustworthy as a person.

If that is what that player wants - to be freely known as an untrustworthy person, then that is entirely their choice. Only one person can prevent that, themselves.

Just wanted to get that out there. As a cold hard fact.

There is no interpretation here, no opinion and no fluff. Neither is there any "moralisation" about what a player does inside the game. Just a black and white observation about any person that enters into an agreement that they intend, from the outset, to deliberately not honour. Those people are untrustworthy. That is the plain and simple truth. Zero emotion. Simply the incontrovertible fact.

I don't even care either way whether "infiltrators" care or not about breaking their word. I'm totally ambivalent to it. Utterly dispassionate about the whether they actually care that they're untrustworthy or not. But that is the basic fact. Breaking an agreement means that the person cannot be trusted.

Here's something that I do care about. Hypocrisy. Hypocrisy is my greatest loathing. I would loathe it if it turned out that any "infiltrator" had previously made any comments about combat logging on this forum and using words such as "rules" or "sanctions" or "punishment" for combat logging. Not that I agree with combat logging, because I happen not to. Understand me when I say that it would be utterly hypocritical for somebody so invested in "rules" to go about ignoring the rules themselves and demonstrating that they, as a person, could not be trusted. That's where I'd bring emotion into the discussion, but I'd be backing that up with facts and logic, not by some hsndwavium personal preference.

Yours Aye

Mark H

Yours Aye

Mark H

I dare say in the real world these people are not such Berks. Sadly hidden anonamusly behind a keyboard knowing people will never recognise them in real life makes them act differently.
Note I am not equating mode invades with psychopaths etc like some do, but I bet a lot would happily use aimbots, wall hacks, ship bots and will happily clog if things go against them esp if they are happy they won't get caught.

Cheaters gonna cheat.

 

[Krash]

Dang right, I hold the keys to the kingdom.

How many CMDRs on your block list?

 

[Stigbob]

How many CMDRs on your block list?

Eleven all confirmed cheats and station greifers (mostly both). I haven't seen a station rammer in over a year, the games much better without them in it.

My personal 'lore' on it is that people ramming round stations get boarded summarily executed and fed into the Soylent Green machine by station security for being boring. Maybe I should suggest it for galnet, and as a new commodity.

 

[Havvk]

Eleven all confirmed cheats and station greifers (mostly both). I haven't seen a station rammer in over a year, the games much better without them in it.

My personal 'lore' on it is that people ramming round stations get boarded summarily executed and fed into the Soylent Green machine by station security for being boring. Maybe I should suggest it for galnet, and as a new commodity.

This

 

[Ziggy Stardust]

I'll just leave this here:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Military_deception

I'll just quote that here:

Military deception refers to attempts to mislead enemy forces during warfare

 

[Pville_Piper]

Can confirm Phisto Sobanii accepts untrustworthy players into his game space.

As a Pirate I am not to be trusted. I tried to Rob the DW2 Rares Warehouse bit they double sixed me with a mostly empty Cutter.

You see the logistics arm was quite well prepared for charming rogues like myself.

Also it would appear to be a statement of fact that to me, you seem just just a little upset. Just a smidge. But that's ok. Because it proves you are in fact Human and not some robot that always follows the rules and behaves in a predictable fashion.

Heh, half the people on my friends list are PvP'ers or Pirates... Gotta watch my back! Beside, you never know when fun will jump you from a blind spot...

 

[Deleted member 110222]

I just don't have friends. Literally nobody can see me coming.

 

[Ouberos]

Heh, half the people on my friends list are PvP'ers or Pirates... Gotta watch my back! Beside, you never know when fun will jump you from a blind spot...

I took my first trip to Shinrata this week (8 week's game time total over nearly 4 years and I only made Elite this week!?!). I was flying a half built half engineered Pirate Krait MK2.

I was eating a Custard creme and browsing Discord when I got pulled by a pair of FDL. I only had a 5a biweave installed and my Drives aren't done yet.

My shields popped more or less straight away and while I was trying to finish my biscuit they got me down to 50% hull. I dropped some heatsinks and did some fancy flying then escaped with 12% hull (ok so my flying wasn't that fancy but you know, I survived. )

Anyway, a half built ship, two Combat FDL, a happy ending.

I celebrated with another custard creme.