Going Cold is very hit or miss vs. Thargoids

[photomankc]

They only miss when you are cold AND moving at a high angular velocity to their main canon. Once you are moving mostly away/towards, they hit even if you are cold.

Thing is there is not one 'interceptor'. You get a mix in CZs. Some are Cyclops, some Medusa, some Basilisk and 1 to several of them. So while it may be easy to get away from one variety, the others may not be so easy. Some have longer range on the canon and they are FAR more damaging when they hit while some are more maneuverable and speedy.

Anyway, good luck with the AX combat. In time if you keep at it you'll work out what really works and doesn't. Kill the bugs =)

 

[C)(R!$Py]

I like to stay running hot and use my laser to heat up faster to burn off acid damage as quick as possible to minimize hull damge then use heat sink to cool back down.
I also go into silent running to heat up faster uslly gets them off my back for a bit.

 

[Sensei Jacksama]

They only miss when you are cold AND moving at a high angular velocity to their main canon. Once you are moving mostly away/towards, they hit even if you are cold.

This is probably what happened in my case. I was having difficulty maintaining a consistent distance during the fight so this is probably why i was hit.

 

[Vinny Vega]

An interceptor does NOT loose track of you because you go cold and boost. It will have a harder time hitting you but it is aware of your position and will track you. If something else is firing at it enough to agro it then it may move on to them rather than chase you in many cases but they can still see a cold ship. In single goid fights I’ve never seen one confused by cold and boost. It always chases the one it’s agroed on. They are all fairly fast compared to large ships and a Basilisk can move in the 400‘s so your going to have a hell of a time separating from that one. Boost past is the best move for a slower ship so that’s the right move to get some space.

The AX CZs are fun but they are a bug ridden mess as well. Unkillable hearts. Random caustic damage in empty space. Goids that bug out. FSD won’t engage. Invisible Scouts that won’t let the battle be won. The state of them is an embarrassment in my opinion. FDev looks really bad leaving them like this for years now.

Perhaps it's more about going cold so I don't get hit, which buys me breathing room, then doubling back taking advantage of the Interceptor's poor turn rate. I can go cold - which prevents me taking any more hits for the moment - turn and, with FA Off, boost back past them and they get left behind and don't catch up. This technique also allows me to lose most, if not all, pursuing Scouts. Great if I need to stop for repairs, but getting away from the Interceptor being key so I can jump out.

The other night, when things went a bit wrong, I was taking constant fire, despite being cold and a good 3km+ away from the nearest ship. This did not reflect my prior, and subsequent, experiences in AX combat. However, like you say, it can be a VERY buggy experience, and I've seen many of the issues you point out in my short time doing the AXCZ'd.

As an aside, I'm not sure how close an Interceptor has to be to totally mass lock a player in an Anaconda, however, I've never seen the FSD charge so slowly as I have when there's an Interceptor near by. I was being blocked from jumping even having gained 3km or so distance from the Interceptor. I then tried a High wake, and that was stuck too, though that surely must be a bug.

Scoob.

I can confirm they still technically track you. The important thing to cold orbiting is to lateral thrust while down thrusting. And maintaining a distance beyond 3km. At 3km or less they start to fire their main cannon. After second heart is broken, they unlock caustic missiles. The downward thrust keeps the shots above your head for the most part. This also relies on you continuing movement of coarse. Within 800 meters after first heart they can lightning attack you. It's also worth noting swarm does not care what state you in for heat. It can attack you regardless if close. Cyclops, Medusa, and Hydra all travel at 450 meters per second. So most ships with grade 5 dirty drag drives can outrun them. However the Basilisk goes at 530 meters per second. So it can be even more challenging to cold orbit. It often chases right at you attempting lighting attack. In general with Basi's, especially solo. You will likely have to silent run past a couple times while dealing with the swarm with flak cannon. To second point, yes instance can often be very fincky. Product of peer to peer. Only way to get rid of the indestructable heart is for everyone in wing to shoot the goid. To add to the point of silent run past. If trying to escape the instance. You want to silent run past as close to 1km away as possible. Then start booking it. Thargoids slow down drastically when turning, and it takes them time to reach their top speed. That all being said I have not tested extensively in Odyssey just yet. But now that the bonds are fixed. I may do more testing this week. I just know for the most part all the mechanics function much the same in Horizons still. However, I can't find a Basi in NHSS's for the life of me. Then in Odyssey I can find them right away. Not sure why the NHSS's are a bit void of goids. Threat 5's still produce cyclops in Horizons. Haven't tested the higher threat's yet. Mostly due to not being ready to step up from Basi. Still working on first solo Basi atm. Sorry for the long reply. Was replying to both of you in this post. Good luck with the practice as well

 

[El Guido]

I haven't bothered with cold orbiting as it's sounds boring to me, but have ya watched this?

Source: https://youtu.be/TpMPMzQFTD0

I have tried the techniques in this video many times but I just don't understand the cues. Am I orbiting too fast or too slow? Am I ahead or behind? Do I break off orbiting when the bug turns its back on me to reload? How do I know when the orbit has 'failed' as the AXI website puts it.

 

[El Guido]

I can confirm they still technically track you. The important thing to cold orbiting is to lateral thrust while down thrusting. And maintaining a distance beyond 3km. At 3km or less they start to fire their main cannon. After second heart is broken, they unlock caustic missiles. The downward thrust keeps the shots above your head for the most part. This also relies on you continuing movement of coarse. Within 800 meters after first heart they can lightning attack you. It's also worth noting swarm does not care what state you in for heat. It can attack you regardless if close. Cyclops, Medusa, and Hydra all travel at 450 meters per second. So most ships with grade 5 dirty drag drives can outrun them. However the Basilisk goes at 530 meters per second. So it can be even more challenging to cold orbit. It often chases right at you attempting lighting attack. In general with Basi's, especially solo. You will likely have to silent run past a couple times while dealing with the swarm with flak cannon. To second point, yes instance can often be very fincky. Product of peer to peer. Only way to get rid of the indestructable heart is for everyone in wing to shoot the goid. To add to the point of silent run past. If trying to escape the instance. You want to silent run past as close to 1km away as possible. Then start booking it. Thargoids slow down drastically when turning, and it takes them time to reach their top speed. That all being said I have not tested extensively in Odyssey just yet. But now that the bonds are fixed. I may do more testing this week. I just know for the most part all the mechanics function much the same in Horizons still. However, I can't find a Basi in NHSS's for the life of me. Then in Odyssey I can find them right away. Not sure why the NHSS's are a bit void of goids. Threat 5's still produce cyclops in Horizons. Haven't tested the higher threat's yet. Mostly due to not being ready to step up from Basi. Still working on first solo Basi atm. Sorry for the long reply. Was replying to both of you in this post. Good luck with the practice as well

That is very interesting. You do the whole engagement at a distance of 3km+. You must be a crack shot at taking out hearts at that distance. I am clumsy enough at 1.5km. Especially in FA off.

 

[El Guido]

From what I understand, if you are cold enough (Sub 20%) thargoids won't be able to hit you. HOWEVER, if you are extremely close to them, they can hit you still. Also, if you squared up with them, they can hit you as well. Try to stay 10+ degrees off from the thargoid's line of fire, if that makes sense.

View attachment 226956

The swarm is not affected by your temperature. They will chase you until they are eliminated, aggro'd by someone else, called back to refresh, or suicide into you.

Thanks for the tip. What distance are you maintaining or trying to during this orbiting?

 

[CMDR The Riz]

That is very interesting. You do the whole engagement at a distance of 3km+. You must be a crack shot at taking out hearts at that distance. I am clumsy enough at 1.5km. Especially in FA off.

Thanks for the tip. What distance are you maintaining or trying to during this orbiting?

AX Weapons have an optimal range of around 1-1.5 km, which is where their Damage Falloff Starts occur; under 750m, you run the risk of receiving some Thargoshock Therapy™ via their Lightning Attack after the first heart has been destroyed. I'd say try to keep your orbit in the 1-2km range for good damage and a bit of a safety buffer in case your orbit decays.

 

[galahad2069]

They are all fairly fast compared to large ships and a Basilisk can move in the 400‘s so your going to have a hell of a time separating from that one.

With the exception of the Orthrus, all Interceptors can move in the 400's (450 m/s IIRC). The Basilisk is even faster (530 m/s).

 

[galahad2069]

That is very interesting. You do the whole engagement at a distance of 3km+. You must be a crack shot at taking out hearts at that distance. I am clumsy enough at 1.5km. Especially in FA off.

Definitely not the whole engagement at a distance of 3 km+, at least not with the Gauss cannons, as they do 0 damage from 3 km+.
If someone can take out Interceptor hearts from that distance using the Gauss, they're not a crack shot, they can just apply a long range engineering mod to a weapon that's unengineerable by anyone else.


Btw, if Gauss cannons were actually engineerable, it would be easier to snipe hearts from afar, not harder (that's the case with all railguns if you want to use them to snipe modules).

 

[CMDR Cknarf]

If you hard-joust a thargoid that’s in pursuit, you can brush past and make some space as it turns around. If you stay cold, it will eventually have to peel away to reload, giving you time to get distance until it’s next run.

An FA-off near miss can let you get a vent beam on it faster after the pass, but if you mess up and hit it, or start your boost and turn at the wrong time, you might be getting hit with lightning. You want to be boosting once you’re nearing that ~1km lightning range, so your boost carries you out of range on the pass. It will start to trigger the lightning, but will be interrupted if you manage to make it out of range. It’s been some time, but I believe it won’t lighting again until another heart is killed.

Now, getting hit with lightning isn’t always the end of the world. Against a Cyclops it’s basically a free heart, and on a Basilisk, sometimes worth the risk if you aren’t going for a solo kill. It’s a time and place thing, but should generally be avoided unless you have a lot of friends to pull aggro when it’s over.

On keeping distance with Thargoids in general, as far as your vent beams will let you hit them is fine. Outside of 3km they won’t be shooting much, inside that range, you should definitely be cold.

As mentioned above, AX weapons have some serious fall off, so when it’s time to attack, you’re going to want to be close, because at max range you really lose a lot of damage. Using vent beams and heat sinks to keep cold on attacks is recommended.

 

[Vedmo]

It could be a ship calibration.

 

[Cmdr Snuffler]

Btw, if Gauss cannons were actually engineerable, it would be easier to snipe hearts from afar, not harder (that's the case with all railguns if you want to use them to snipe modules).

Really??? That would only work if you could target the heart and the micro gimbal of fixed weapons locks onto it. Unless you've scanned an interceptor while being less than 500m away you are not able to target hearts directly so from 3km+ away you'd just be targeting the main hull of the Thargoid.

 

[galahad2069]

Really??? That would only work if you could target the heart and the micro gimbal of fixed weapons locks onto it. Unless you've scanned an interceptor while being less than 500m away you are not able to target hearts directly so from 3km+ away you'd just be targeting the main hull of the Thargoid.

I was mainly talking about a subtargettable heart and yeah, the very short range of the Xeno scanner is a pain, but even if you could not directly target a heart, it wouldn't be hard to hit it using a longer range Gauss (if that were a thing), even without the micro-gimbal.

As things stand now, the main reason why you need to be much closer than 3 km is not to make it easier to hit the heart, it's just that beyond 1.5 km you rapidly lose damage because of the falloff (and beyond 3 km range the damage is literally zero).

 

[Wlfric]

They're networking pixies, not gremlins. Calling them gremlins is defined as hate speech now.

I hate them, so I will call them gremlins.

 

[Aganar]

Staying under 20% heat is very important when fighting interceptors. It doesnt mean thargoids wont see you, it just means Its targeting is heat based. You can still get hit If you dont use lateral vertical thrusters, thats why cold orbiting is so popular. You also can do cold orbiting fa on.

But i am quite sure being cold doesnt help when fighting scouts. To be honest i never tried it because there is no need for it.

 

[CMDR The Riz]

But i am quite sure being cold doesnt help when fighting scouts. To be honest i never tried it because there is no need for it.

It does, and works the same way as running cold / Silent does with Interceptors. However, don't get too close to a Scout when a Berserker activates its buff from across the instance - they will still fire missiles at you.