Gradually Losing Respect for Frontier Development - Here is Why
- Thread starter Marikc0
- Start date
It doesnt matter - there was a bug, and do players hit it due of actually trying to play the game or just poke a bug for funsies sake - IT DOESN'T MATTER. Time frame is way too short to claim that everyone of them did this to abuse bug and exploit game.
You can fully disagree with FD letting keeping their money, but if you dont have evidence, dont generalize that people are exploiters just because they hit this particular bug.
I'm curious what the justification is for anyone to be gifted n Billion credits. Whats the rational? How it is justifiable?
Whats wrong with a free paint job or a few million credits? Hey I've lost credits through bugs too..
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The game is designed so that players can affect the game world. So there is the potential for competition and conflict, as players work within that system. Lets say one group of players wanted to destabilize a system to change the governing power, perhaps create an anarchy. Another group decides to oppose them and supports the government.
If one group has billions in assets and the other group does not, I think the first group will have an advantage in the conflict.
When he says "...we automatically refunded all the affected players for their lost transactions..."
Followed by when he says ..."We are also aware of an exploit (I wont detail it here) which occurred due to this database error, where players have been abusing the broken state of their ship to "create credits". These players know they are exploiting the system and will also be investigated. Actions may be taken against players who are known to be exploiting the system and do stand out from the commanders who were simply given the credits during our credit refund process.".
Really, it cant be any clearer.
I'm working under the assumption that you mean "show me where he says they didn't get 5 billion by exploiting" when you say "Please show me in where in that comment you think Andrew says the 5 billion did not attempt to exploit.", because in no way does Elite
angerous have 5 billion players, never mind 5 billion players trying to use exploits Oh, and this bit "During this period, a relatively small number of commanders were affected in various ways. Some having cargo stuck in their ship, others with missions that couldn't be completed/aborted and vanishing ships.", is showing that it was not necessary to be attempting to use an exploit to be affected in the first place.
I think this is the relevant paragraph. I obtained it from the link posted by SpaceGoblin:
EDIT: Ninja'd by SpaceGoblin ... again!
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No, it isn't.
First you said:
"To benefit from a bug is exploitation in my opinion."
Then you said:
"I think they are expoliting from the moment on they realise what has happened and refuse to correct the damage."
Those are two very different definitions. In the first, the player is an exploiter as soon as the bug happens. In the second, the player isn't an exploiter until they realise that a bug occurred and don't do anything about it.
Those are, as I said, very different definitions.
These people didn't cheat. They suffered from server problems that were not their fault and caused them to lose credits, then they got more compensation than intended from FD. Then they were given a choice what to do about it. At no point did any of these players cheat or exploit anything.
As such, if the money had just been taken away again, there would be huge threads about it. Just as you see it as somehow 'unfair' that FD gave them the option to keep the credits, I can 100% guarantee that some people would see it as 'unfair' if they just took them away from players who hadn't done anything wrong.
But letting them keep THAT MUCH - do you have any idea how much Cr is 50b?
Enough to topple governments?
Ok so I'm assuming what you said isn't true then?
I am only asking because I genuinely want to see where they've said it because it's very relevant to the discussion - and well you specifically said they did and used it to imply people hadn't done their research.
I disagree with your assumption about evidence since I've posted evidence (of a sort), it's circumstantial yes but as I keep saying I don't have cameras in Frontier's offices yet.
And on your conclusion from your incorrect assumption, that's rubbish too since I've specifically made a point of saying that not all affected will be exploiters.
Like in post #211 about an hour ago for example :
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Yea, pretty much - its like a letting some commanders to fly in god mode. And that is fine?
Define "mistake" for us please.
Hope you can see one big issue here is in defining "mistake". How is this mistake, of their software overcompensating a credit, different than their software making other mistakes such as being able to repeatedly sell something? Neither mistake was clearly acting as intended. One could define both as exploits.
To the point about folks benefiting from an exploit it is true that one of the mechanisms that led to those getting the billion credit refund was to try and exploit. And it's also true only the dev's would likely have the facts - or that the facts cannot be determined. So there's no wonder why some have proposed intentional exploitation theories as some are plausible.
This is a hot topic for a reason since there's a lot that can be interpreted in different ways. And the lack of any type of solid communication from the dev's is simply fueling bad feelings such as distrust from the community.
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You are nitpicking on this one. Of course I presumed that the player knows about his profit. Otherwise it would not make any sense, would it?
They cheated when they decided to keep the money.
This makes no sense. It isn't their money to begin with.
Elite shelved due conflict in moral views i hold, which are opposed to FD's decisions on the "5B" issue.
Which actually frees my time for war thunder, another game i love
Which actually frees my time for war thunder, another game i love
And FD have clearly said they have ways to indicate those who exploited this bug. Did you even read whole Andrew message?
What part of "We should absolutely have negative feelings about this" did you neglect to understand?
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just......get over it, of course they should be allowed to have a xmas break, stupid to think otherwise so why even mention it, the money those guys made, how on earth does that effect you, unless you are upset you didn't profit? this is primarily a solo type game they are not going to have some magical advantage over you, the only valid complaint you have is actually your friends problem not yours.
I say again, get over it, move on with your life, it's not worth getting worked up over
I say again, get over it, move on with your life, it's not worth getting worked up over
5 billion is 5 thousand million
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5 thousand million
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My base assumption is that players are players and while some of them will be exploiters (which is a loaded term implying cheaters), I won't be painting all beneficiaries as exploiters, but rather, indeed, as victims unless proven otherwise. That's why I don't agree when people express that they are all cheaters, because some of them didn't do anything wrong and it's not helpful to the discussion to label them as such.
And since Frontier has stated that wilfull exploitation will be investigated, I will assume this includes the ones who have been offered the deal.
So to me: the biggest mistake was letting the beneficiaries (victims and exploiters both) keep the 5 billion. We agree on this, and I think we agree that the group includes both real victims as well as bad faith exploiters. I expect that of the beneficiaries, the ones who got there by wilfully exploiting (as opposed to accidentally stumbling upon the situation) will be investigated and dealt with.
Even better would be to roll back / take back the 5 billion for all involved, but so much time has passed by now, it's getting exceedingly difficult to get to a fair state. e.g. someone may have offloaded tons of their gains to other players or crashed the Palladium market, how do you deal with that sort of thing?
I'm hoping that for the future, FD will consider these situations more carefully with this debacle as experience.
No, because (at least with how I define the term), 'exploit' involves intent. There was no intent by these players. They suffered from server issues that lost them credits, then FD overcompensated them. The players did nothing wrong.Define "mistake" for us please.
Hope you can see one big issue here is in defining "mistake". How is this mistake, of their software overcompensating a credit, different than their software making other mistakes such as being able to repeatedly sell something? Neither mistake was clearly acting as intended. One could define both as exploits.
If a player finds a bug and then repeatedly uses it to their advantage, that's kind of the definition of exploiting (for me, at least).