Gradually Losing Respect for Frontier Development - Here is Why

[TeeWee]

Please summarise the 'real issue', as I've read the thread (and several previous ones about the same thing) and I am still not getting it.

Thanks.

I'm not bothered by the 5 billion club, but it undeniably is an issue for some, and it's directly tied to FD's decision to make this an online game with shared universe. The thing is, even if you're in no way bothered by what other people have, the fact remains that a member of the 5 billion club is able to affect the game state on a local level in a significant way. Yes, the influence is only local. Yes, they are only 50, so the chances of being affected are tiny; but if you do happen to be in the area, the influence is very real. Whether or not this will affect you as a player, depends on the player's goals and play style. There may be a sudden change in mission availability, or the commodity market can be affected. There may be tons of Palladium canisters flowing about the NavBeacon because the member is some Robin Hood giving to the poor other CMDRs. The member may spread his wealth to other friends and forming an overpowered strike force, and then going into an injected story event. And now tell me those club members are not affecting the game for others.

So in short: FD seems to have no feel or experience with dealing with MMO style games. No malice: just ignorance in the sensitivities for online games I guess. I personally am not bothered, but then again, I didn't want it to be online in the first place and I generally avoid games with an online component. The universe is big enough for me, but then again, that's just my playstyle.

 

[MJallday]

One would assume the accidental billionaires proved to be easily identifiable or how would they have emailed them the choice email?

For a start they'll be the ones with the 5 billion credit adjustment to their accounts. There's plenty of logging and audit trails in the database I expect, they won't be just relying a single credit field in the user table!

so tell us, do you still play with int.32 x credits or did you wipe it

 

[Tobytyke1972]

One would assume the accidental billionaires proved to be easily identifiable or how would they have emailed them the choice email?

For a start they'll be the ones with the 5 billion credit adjustment to their accounts. There's plenty of logging and audit trails in the database I expect, they won't be just relying a single credit field in the user table!

exactly, FDev should jsut sort this out and give the guys a little gift to say sorry for the confusion. That way this will all blow over very soon. My main concern is the future of the game. What happens when the next issues arise, They will because development on this scale is hard and there are lots of variables involved. FDev need to use this issue and correct it in an acceptable way for all people involved. Those directly and indirectly and FDev themselves. They use this as a bench mark case for all future issues.

 

[CMDR Byr Goefin]

I don't buy that. You cannot seriously think it is fair that one got 5 billions for doing nothing. If this is true, you really have absolutely no sense of justice. Wow.



Yeah, you really don't care about justice. It is all about you, right? Wow.
Well, I care about the direction this game is taking with using bugs being the new gameplay mechanic now. But that is the bigger picture. Maybe too big for you.

OR maybe I understand the stakes: none.
If you think "justice" comes into the discussion, you need to try the decaf, you have your head screwed on too tight. It. is. a. game.


Let me give you a little friendly advice, if you let other people determine what makes you happy, you are not going to be a happy person.

This game means very little in the scheme of things, and what other people do in the game means even less.

 

[Beetlebum]

These players didn't exploit anything.

To benefit from a bug is exploitation in my opinion. They even had the chance to reverse the effects of the bug. Some did, some didn't. The fact that FD has supported exploitation doesn't mean, it is no exploitation. A bug can happen to anyone. But getting profit from it and keeping it willingly is called exploitation.

 

[Iain M Norman]

so tell us, do you still play with int.32 x credits or did you wipe it

I deleted my save the morning after the launch party.

 

[Christopsy]

this what some get wrong like you not everyone plays the same way you do not everyone plays for the same reason you do not everyone has the same moral values you do

Parse error

 

[MJallday]

To benefit from a bug is exploitation in my opinion. They even had the chance to reverse the effects of the bug. Some did, some didn't. The fact that FD has supported exploitation doesn't mean, it is no exploitation. A bug can happen to anyone. But getting profit from it and keeping it willingly is called exploitation.

then id suggest you look up exploitation in the dictionary!

what they have benefited from the system - look at it this way, if your bank put £200 in your account, have you exploited the bank? - No
have you benefited? yes
is it unfair to all the other bank customers? (possibly yes)

(by the way, a bank would probably have it back of you!)

edit - by the way, getting profit from an error and willingly keeping it is called fraud. but since it was offered by FD , its actually called a free gift

 

[Beetlebum]

OR maybe I understand the stakes: none.
If you think "justice" comes into the discussion, you need to try the decaf, you have your head screwed on too tight. It. is. a. game.

Let me give you a little friendly advice, if you let other people determine what makes you happy, you are not going to be a happy person.

I am a very happy person who takes games seriously, yes. I am not a casual gamer; I am on the other end of the spectrum. I understand that this hobby is not as important to you as it is for me and you don't care about cheating in an online game at all. But that disqualifies you in my eyes. If you don't care about the game, I don't care about your opinion on the game. End of discussion.

 

[Arindor]

my friend is not pc stupid so try again have you even been to the suport part of the forums because your reply would say otherwise

Unfortunately this attitude gets you nowhere. If you can try to be more civil and polite, then people on these forums are more likely to help.

 

[BigBadB]

I'm not bothered by the 5 billion club, but it undeniably is an issue for some, and it's directly tied to FD's decision to make this an online game with shared universe. The thing is, even if you're in no way bothered by what other people have, the fact remains that a member of the 5 billion club is able to affect the game state on a local level in a significant way. Yes, the influence is only local. Yes, they are only 50, so the chances of being affected are tiny; but if you do happen to be in the area, the influence is very real. Whether or not this will affect you as a player, depends on the player's goals and play style. There may be a sudden change in mission availability, or the commodity market can be affected. There may be tons of Palladium canisters flowing about the NavBeacon because the member is some Robin Hood giving to the poor other CMDRs. The member may spread his wealth to other friends and forming an overpowered strike force, and then going into an injected story event. And now tell me those club members are not affecting the game for others.

I don't see how they are affecting the game for others any more than anyone who's already earned a large amount of credits. They still can't fly anything tougher than an Anaconda, or move more goods around than a Type-9, and there are many players who have already got those ships (and there will be more and more every day).

Sure, I get that these players don't have to worry about money (at least in the short term), and that can affect the way they play, but the possibilities for one player to directly and negatively affect another are pretty slim in this game. The worst anyone can do is blow you out of the sky, and you don't need billions of credits to do that.

Besides which, isn't other players affecting things kinda the point of an online game?

Essentially, I just don't see the big deal. It's clear that some people are very upset, but I just don't understand why.

 

[MJallday]

Unfortunately this attitude gets you nowhere. If you can try to be more civil and polite, then people on these forums are more likely to help.

agreed. his "friend" should also try to use his (no doubt) considerable pc skills to find this forum and ask for help, or ticket any issues

 

[Marikc0]

then id suggest you look up exploitation in the dictionary!

what they have benefited from the system - look at it this way, if your bank put £200 in your account, have you exploited the bank? - No
have you benefited? yes
is it unfair to all the other bank customers? (possibly yes)

(by the way, a bank would probably have it back of you!)

edit - by the way, getting profit from an error and willingly keeping it is called fraud. but since it was offered by FD , its actually called a free gift

If a bank accidentally credited you for any amount they would expect you to return it and if you did not do so, you could expect legal action.

Not that what I just said has any bearing on this game, but as far as a bank goes, they would take that very seriously.

You mentioned the definition of exploitation which is a good point, we do need to define this word for some.

Exploitation:

• the action or act of treating someone unfairly in order to benefit from their work
• the action of making use of and benefiting from resources
• selfish utilization
• use or utilization, especially for profit
• unfair treatment of someone, or the use of a situation in a way that is wrong, in order to get some benefit for yourself
• the process of making use of something so that you gain as much as possible from it

Most of these would define the action taken by players that kept that money as exploitation.

 

[Niewinter]

<mod-hat-off>

I've had billions of credits, and it sucks. All through Alpha and Beta I white-hatted my way 2.1 billion or so (Int32.Max to be precise).

It totally alters the way you play, you have enough money to completely kit out any ship with everything and then more again to behave however you like and never fear the insurance excess.

Also I got bored very quickly when having that many credits, and in a way avoided actually playing, and just kept to testing.

I played like that all the way up to the launch party, but I had to be aware of interacting with others when I had so little to lose, and being cautious of unfairly affecting someone else's gameplay.

I personally would rather not play against people with those freedoms from any deterrent against certain behaviours this side of release.

Post launch party I've played honestly, and I've not only played more often and for longer buy I've also really really enjoyed it more.

I don't understand the thinking behind the decision to let the "Billion Credit Fifty" have the option of keeping that many credits? I can only imagine there was a fear that those people would complain with things along the line of, "It was your mistake I should get to keep them".

It's not too late for FD to reverse that decision as it's fairly apparent that it's caused more community concerns in the other direction.

Perhaps it'll be reconsidered? Who knows. Personally I hope so, as from my pov it's left a sour note in the mouths of much of the community.

</mod-hat-off>

have some rep for speaking rational about this thank you.

 

[Beetlebum]

then id suggest you look up exploitation in the dictionary!

The dictionary describes 100% what has happened here.

what they have benefited from the system

They have benefited from a BUG.

- look at it this way, if your bank put £200 in your account, have you exploited the bank? - No

If I know it and refuse to give it back? Yes, of course. Here in Germany you get punished for keeping unintentionally transacted money for yourself.

have you benefited? yes
is it unfair to all the other bank customers? (possibly yes)

(by the way, a bank would probably have it back of you!)

And this is why it should be taken back from FD.

 

[MJallday]

I deleted my save the morning after the launch party.

its funny i know exactly what you mean - , when Frontier came out in 93, i spent ages building up my character, then the "cargo space" exploit was published. whereby you sell the passenger hold whilst passengers were in it and it gave you free cash.

it totally ruined the game, i had no desire to play after that. thats why im not doing any of the exploits or bugs i hear about in this - hell i havent even smuggled yet! i want to play and get the satisfaction that ive done it

if i were lucky enough to become a billionaire, personally id give it back. sure itd be fun for a while, but whats the point?

 

[Crabwich]

I have another idea: Let's rename this thread to "What I would do with 5 billion credits".

I would buy a fully kitted Cobra and start racking up fines everywhere, try to get a 50 million credit bounty on me then I would start a thread posting the system that I am playing in (in open) each night and run/fight for my life!!! That might be fun. We could repeat this every 24 hours, right? If I get bored I just pay the fines. Heck, I may do this at some point anyway just on a smaller scale.

Do fines stack? If I run illegal goods into a station area and get scanned/fined, can I leave the area and return and get another fine for the same goods?

 

[CMDR Byr Goefin]

I am a very happy person who takes games seriously, yes. I am not a casual gamer; I am on the other end of the spectrum. I understand that this hobby is not as important to you as it is for me and you don't care for cheating in an online game at all. But that disqualifies you in my eyes. If you don't care about the game, I don't care about your opinion on the game. End of discussion.

Here is your ball.

Go home.

 

[burzum]

all fair points but I would like to point out on small thing regarding time frames that you expect a developer to "fix" issues by, Elite is a small kick starter and has just released their are many problems that need to be addressed and only around 200 members of staff in the entire company, compare that to say Blizzard who have over 5000 member's of staff and still can't get a game to launch correctly and it puts a little perspective on things. I do understand that this dosn't helps your problems but it is what it is.

LOL, SMALL!? 130 people?

There are plenty of Kickstarter projects with A LOT LESS people working on them and doing a MUCH MUCH better job. Kerbal Space and Space Engineers just to name two who do an awesome job and community communication.

 

[MJallday]

If a bank accidentally credited you for any amount they would expect you to return it and if you did not do so, you could expect legal action.

Not that what I just said has any bearing on this game, but as far as a bank goes, they would take that very seriously.

actually up until October 2014 , this wasnt the case in the Uk. There was no legal requirement for you to give the money back
Sadly this has changed now and banks can actually raid your account to get it back. good link here

http://www.thisismoney.co.uk/money/...8/Banks-raid-accounts-cash-sent-accident.html