Griefing is a valid way to play

[CATPAIN KIRK]

How definitions change over time. I've played MMOs for 13 years. Griefing was always the repeated killing of a single player over and over and over. It was also the intentional 'blocking' or 'camping' of a player respawn point. Now it seems to include every killing without warning. That was defined as PvP.

Now I get killed over over and over in any game I play on the Internet since Quakeworld - sometimes even repeatedly by the same player. I've been killed hundreds of times in 9 years of Eve. Have I ever been griefed?

Not one single time in my life.

And whist we're at it - I just got killed for the first time in ED ever - please increase insurance cost at least tenfold - it felt disapointingly trivial.

 

[Midnight-shadow]

How definitions change over time. I've played MMOs for 13 years. Griefing was always the repeated killing of a single player over and over and over. It was also the intentional 'blocking' or 'camping' of a player respawn point. Now it seems to include every killing without warning. That was defined as PvP.

'Zerging' was when you would seek to respawn faster than your enemies to take advantage of their wounded state (from the last encounter) to kill them. The faster you (or your team) could zerg, the more likely you were to win a battle.

That's how I've always defined griefing too, and both things you mention are impossible in E

 

[Hemlock]

Maybe so, but it is also a shortcut to being vaporized. A griefer in a persistent universe is someone who should be hunted down and eliminated in short order. A griefer is really a sociopath waiting for death or incarceration. Sure, play the way you want, while you can.

 

[BigBadB]

... but if you want to play the role of a sociopathic killer, the in-game authorities should treat you as such. For example:
- A 'kill on sight' order issued to all stations
- More prolific serial killers get increasingly heavy hostile NPC "kill teams" interdicting them or jumping to their location
- The most prolific of all get a mention in Galnet news
- Anarchy systems are the only places that offer refuge

I'm not taking about a meta-game hatred of griefers, or introducing gameplay mechanics to artificially stop griefing. I'm saying give grief play some validity. Let them play how they want, but beware the consequences. Some grief players may even like getting some in-game notoriety.

Attacking all players you encounter isn't griefing.

Griefing is deliberately attempting to spoil someone else's enjoyment of the game, often through the use of exploits or unintended loopholes that the victim can't do anything about, and typically involves repeated 'stalking' of a specific player. It's getting your jollies from upsetting, frustrating or annoying the target, which is why it's generally frowned on by devs, customer support teams and players alike.

 

[crushdepth]

If you want to grief or "role play" a psycho nut case or idiot don't expect anyone to "play by the rules" or give you time of day.

Hopefully the devs will eventually make serial killing more sticky, something you can't just go down to the corner shop and pay off.

 

[Forumate]

Welcome to Elite Dangerous! Where all pirates and outlaws are considered griefers.

 

[Tony2438]

What is the deference between a pirate and a Griefer?

 

[Hatsune Miku]

What is the deference between a pirate and a Griefer?

Pirates use valid in game mechanics.
Griefer, which isn't even an english word, is actually an exploiter.

 

[Lanatir]

What is the deference between a pirate and a Griefer?

pirate is a 6 letter word, griefer has 7. besides that there is usually not much of a difference. 90% of the time people use the 'im a pirate, Arrrrrr!' excuse just to go ahead and attack targets they can be sure dont fight back (aka unarmed traders) and then come here and whine if those traders went to solo.

- - - - - Additional Content Posted / Auto Merge - - - - -

Pirates use valid in game mechanics.
Griefer, which isn't even an english word, is actually an exploiter.

Griefer isnt a word, but exploiter is? Your logic is..special.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Griefer

Lots of people seem to be of another oppinion about griefer not being a word. I mean...there has been scientific studies about griefers and griefing. good to know that you decided its no word.

 

[Hatsune Miku]

pirate is a 6 letter word, griefer has 7. besides that there is usually not much of a difference. 90% of the time people use the 'im a pirate, Arrrrrr!' excuse just to go ahead and attack targets they can be sure dont fight back (aka unarmed traders) and then come here and whine if those traders went to solo.

Uh, duh? They're pirates. You don't go for targets that have a potential to blow you the hell up unless you have overwhelming numbers or strength against them.

 

[Joe Spivey]

... but if you want to play the role of a sociopathic killer, the in-game authorities should treat you as such. For example:
- A 'kill on sight' order issued to all stations
- More prolific serial killers get increasingly heavy hostile NPC "kill teams" interdicting them or jumping to their location
- The most prolific of all get a mention in Galnet news
- Anarchy systems are the only places that offer refuge

I'm not taking about a meta-game hatred of griefers, or introducing gameplay mechanics to artificially stop griefing. I'm saying give grief play some validity. Let them play how they want, but beware the consequences. Some grief players may even like getting some in-game notoriety.

Or we can just assign self confessed griefers to the game's Griefer Hell where they can all play with each other. Problem solved.

 

[Jerakeen]

Of course there's a difference between player killing and griefing. Psychopathically killing every ship you come across is allowed in the game mechanic so is probably unavoidable given the CoD generation of gamers we have now but the penalties for murder could and possibly should be increased.

Not a draconian punishment for each and every kill but perhaps an escalating penalty. 6,000 for the first murder, 12,000 for the next, 24,000 for the next and so on until the psycho is either killed or has to travel to a distant station defined by his current location and over 100ly away to pay off the bounty. All the time he's going there he wound be flagged on the radar in a different colour to show that he has a high bounty on him so would become a target for every bounty hunter in the area.

You'd get some people trying to get the highest bounty on their heads and others chasing them from system to system like a posse chasing Butch Cassidy. It could introduce a whole new game dynamic and would both discourage the psychos who do it because of their shrunken genitalia and leave those who actively choose it as a career path because they enjoy the challenge of eluding the posse.

 

[c64orinoco]

Greifers are tall animals with very long necks, which they have evolved to eat the succulent leaves from the tops of trees.

Damn it, no thats Giraffes.

I always get them mixed up.

 

[excalibus]

OK, I see your point. Maybe I should have said "senseless killing" instead of griefing.

Indeed psychopathic behaviour is a form of valid gameplay (there are plenty of NPC's like that)

Griefing is really only a term used to describe someone (or a group of people) deliberately ruining the game for another player (or a group of people) through REPEATED destruction of their ships either using exploits/unintended mechanics to do so or using intended mechanics to achieve the same REPEATED outcome for the same players (groups)...

I think increasing PC murder bounties by 10 times would improve the situation as far as those wish to to be psychotic will quickly have serious bounties attracting bounty hunters and making it more difficult it instantly pay off bounties without doing other activities in between being psychotic

And indeed the most psychotic should get mentions on GALNET

 

[Hatsune Miku]

Griefing is really only a term used to describe someone (or a group of people) deliberately ruining the game for another player (or a group of people) through REPEATED destruction of their ships either using exploits/unintended mechanics to do so or using intended mechanics to achieve the same REPEATED outcome for the same players (groups)...

So... Exploiters are exploiting station aggression mechanics to trigger their guns on clean players thereby causing them grief.

Thank Gabe- I mean, Dark Lord Braben for formatting.

 

[DYSEQTA]

... but if you want to play the role of a sociopathic killer, the in-game authorities should treat you as such. For example:
- A 'kill on sight' order issued to all stations
- More prolific serial killers get increasingly heavy hostile NPC "kill teams" interdicting them or jumping to their location
- The most prolific of all get a mention in Galnet news
- Anarchy systems are the only places that offer refuge

I'm not taking about a meta-game hatred of griefers, or introducing gameplay mechanics to artificially stop griefing. I'm saying give grief play some validity. Let them play how they want, but beware the consequences. Some grief players may even like getting some in-game notoriety.

I agree 100%. The way the game is right now it seems to go out of its way to encourage psychopathic behaviour as there is more or less nothing that the game itself does to respond to this kind of behaviour in controlled space. I got destroyed in two shots two days ago whilst landing my sidewinder at an outpost by someone apparently sitting outside the range of the outpost's defenses (there was no outpost response) waiting for people to start the landing process and then pot shotting them. That behaviour in our society would be rewarded with life in prison for each kill, and in some countries the death penalty. It is not a misdemeanour, not by the stretch of anyone's imagination. Someone who behaves in that manner should find themselves only able to sit still for more than 10 seconds in an anarchy system as the law in any controlled space should be on them like a hawk the second they show their face in the system.

I have no problem with people playing like this as long as the consequences of their actions are appropriate. A piddly little bounty they can go and pay off themselves at their leisure at any outpost without fear of anything is not appropriate. We are not even allowed to name them in public for fear they might be griefed...um wot?

 

[Jaiotu]

pirate is a 6 letter word, griefer has 7. besides that there is usually not much of a difference. 90% of the time people use the 'im a pirate, Arrrrrr!' excuse just to go ahead and attack targets they can be sure dont fight back (aka unarmed traders) and then come here and whine if those traders went to solo.

I have no problem with pirates. If you are interdicted by a player while in a trading ship and immediately text "DON'T SHOOT" they'll usually be willing to make a deal and you'll both fly away unharmed.
The problem is that the whole interdiction dynamic. Most victims want to run as soon as they are dropped out of supercruise. The moment you start running the player-pirate's only choices are to let you go or shoot you. Most will choose to shoot. They'll get no satisfaction from watching you escape so they might as well blow you up. Most would be more than happy successfully getting a small amount of cargo from you.

In my experience when I've been interdicted by players if I run... I die. If I drop my thrusters to zero and immediately text "DON'T SHOOT." They either let me live AND let me keep my cargo or we've arranged for me to drop a small amount of cargo and then I go about my merry way. Remember: Rare commodities are POCKET CHANGE. They really don't cost much to buy... their value is only in the POTENTIAL profit. The other day I dropped 10 rare commodities for a player-pirate. That was less then 7,000cr out-of-pocket for me. I immediately went back to the station where I'd bought them and picked up 12 more to replace the ones I lost flew 180 light years away and made a 150,000cr profit on them.

If "griefing" is exploiting a game dynamic to deny another player from having fun then folks who immediately run from a pirate encounter are "griefers". FDEV has already stated that being able to immediately escape after being interdicted is a flawed game mechanic and that they are working on figuring out a way to close that exploit. https://forums.frontier.co.uk/showthread.php?t=101378&page=15&p=1575950#post1575950

 

[Turnips]

In my experience when I've been interdicted by players if I run... I die. If I drop my thrusters to zero and immediately text "DON'T SHOOT." They either let me live AND let me keep my cargo or we've arranged for me to drop a small amount of cargo and then I go about my merry way. Remember: Rare commodities are POCKET CHANGE. They really don't cost much to buy... their value is only in the POTENTIAL profit. The other day I dropped 10 rare commodities for a player-pirate. That was less then 7,000cr out-of-pocket for me. I immediately went back to the station where I'd bought them and picked up 12 more to replace the ones I lost flew 180 light years away and made a 150,000cr profit on them.

I just wonder how often you get stopped by a "roleplaying psycho murderer" or "roleplaying crusader" or "roleplaying blockade" type of guys who simply shoot no matter what. Running is better in any case if you are equipped with shield cells and give up the interdiction fight.

Yeah, it might have been "roleplaying pirate" who lets you go but if you are trusting, you'll get killed every now and then fnar.

 

[AuGuR]

Hmm...

Killing a player and get a bounty. Go to nearest outpost, discover you can't pay off the bounty as the Pilot's Federation pulled their contacts from them. You can now only pay off your bounty in a "lawful", controlling faction's station. While on the way to the station, you are repeatedly interdicted incessantly to the point it takes you two hours to move more than 100ls. You finally manage to get outside the station, and your request to dock is denied because you have a bounty, upon which the station and all system security vessels nearby start firing on you. As you come out of the insurance screen, you notice that your bounty is still in effect.

You have been grief'd by the game, enjoy.

----------------------------------

Oh, the difference between a psycho and a pirate is that the pirate will at least ask for some sort of payment to let you go with your ship intact BEFORE deciding whether or not to blow your ship up. (imho, of course)

 

[Jaiotu]

I just wonder how often you get stopped by a "roleplaying psycho murderer" or "roleplaying crusader" or "roleplaying blockade" type of guys who simply shoot no matter what. Running is better in any case if you are equipped with shield cells and give up the interdiction fight.

Yeah, it might have been "roleplaying pirate" who lets you go but if you are trusting, you'll get killed every now and then fnar.

Not often. Twice in Beta one in Release. All three instances were the same commander. Not counting "Betapocalype" where everyone was killing everyone else right before the wipe.

So... in all my time playing I've had ONE guy, just ONE, who murdered me without so much as a warning.

Running may work for now but as noted in a post from the lead developer that won't be the case once they get the mechanics properly sorted: https://forums.frontier.co.uk/showthread.php?t=101378&page=15&p=1575950#post1575950

As for that ONE guy who killed me... there was nothing I could have done to prevent it. As soon as he pulled me out of supercruise he started shooting. I didn't have shield cells and he ripped through my hull before I could even pull up chat. And yes, I tried running. I was dead before the FSD cooldown finished.