Griefing: Is it?

In that case, it's how a CMDR dies and for what cause that's more relevant.

A letter of marque from a faction would be a good start (I would be tempted but it's a hard way to make a space buck). But it's hard to define what is less acceptable ways of being killed than others. It's not a simple issue. And it is unlikely that FD will find an answer. People will always find a way. Around rules. Around limitations and how to subvert process.

Perhaps finding a better way to split amoral jobs like piracy from straight out lunatics would be a good start. But until that happens, harsh penalties really does make piracy implausible. Which means a bit of flavour and risk from playing is pulled from the game.

I'd like to see FD approach this, but to do so they really need to finalise the 'professional' roles more thoroughly first. That includes piracy. And smuggling. And assassination. And other such professions.
 
Last edited:
The problem is, there is no risk for pirates/greifers, whatever you want to call them, there are no consequences at all.

For me, being a pirate/psycho would come with massive costs.

1) Massive increases insurance. What insurance company is going to insure pirates? They are not, simple as that and any third party intermediate will charge a fortune. Any pirate killed in system/faction where they are wanted/recognised you don't get insurance or at incredibly high levels.

2) Pirates should banned from docking in systems/factions that they are pirating in. Yes that also means if pirate in Federation space, you will not be able to dock at federation stations. You would have to go elsewhere, like making uses of pirate bases where you would get missions for piracy. Why would a station let known pirates who have been killing civilians land at the station, they wouldn't unless it was to ask the pilot what colour soap they would like to pick up.

This also means that pirates would not be able to do the best trade and make millions, your pirates, you can't have everything.

3) System security should applied accordingly, pirate in a wealthy system with good security and you might as well roll over and smile, unless you are the best of the best. Whilst it is easy to pirate in anarchy systems or systems with poor security.

4) As for people that just want go around slaughtering people for fun? Fine do that, but be prepared to be restricted here there and everywhere. And eventually the only ship you will be able to kit out, is your free sidewinder... If you can get out the station without getting shot at.

Yes people can play whatever way they want, but they had better accept that their are pro's and con's to everything.

If traders want to earn big money, the best routes should be from the lower policed outer rim systems (More piracy) to the better protected systems. So traders know they have a chance of meeting up pirates (proper cost and reward) or they can stay safe earn lower profits but know they are much much safer as it would hard to pirate in better protected systems.

There is no risk to being pirate, but you try to make it risky and the pirates are the first ones to cry like babies and say it is not fair, why should being a pirate come with consequences...
Why is it always on the pirate to incur more risk for his profession? Traders, or any other profession for that matter, are not massively risky. All professions have minimal risk, I don't see piracy as some safe profession compared to the others. It's not risky by any means, but no profession is imo. Piracy is also at times the most frustrating, and one of the least financially rewarding professions in the game. It also has the worst ship to income progression. Compared to trading being the most or second most financially rewarding profession, with the best ingame ship progression.


Explain why pirates need to have a massively increased rebuy, when noone else will.


Explain why pirates should be banned from docking in system when noone else is.


Explain why pirates should be restricted to a free sidewinder just because, when noone else is.


Explain why pirates should be locked into thier profession when noone else is.


Explain "why being a pirate come with consequences..." when no other profession does.
 
Last edited:
That's a good post OP.

Unfortunately the game we have been given is an environment designed to enable antisocial players. It's a failing at the very core of the game design.

It is well known that it is not possible to reason with the mentally ill, putting your rational argument to them is a frustrating and ultimately fruitless pastime. This game is doomed by design to be a griefers paradise. Your only option is the same as it is with the mentally ill, to not engage or take part. That's what solo mode is, and while a elegant solution to "gamergate" it's no real replacement for what a good multiplayer game could have been.

Protect yourself from the crazies by avoiding them. It could have been fun in another universe.
 

1) Even in power play, you can land without much fuss at an enemy faction's outposts and stations.

1.1) How exactly do I mask my in-game identity? Again, until this mechanic actually exists in-game, it has no place here.

2) So we agree that pirates risk and reward need to be upped? My concern is that the risk that pirates create for other players isn't equivalent to their own risk. While a pirate can quite easily "relieve" a T6 of about 2mil worth of cargo, the game poses no real counter-risk for the pirate. Piracy, if you will, is currently quite a risk-free way to impose danger on other players. Should pirates not also face such dangers?

2.1) Piracy risk is objective I think. It can easily be compared to the risks that other players face. For instance, for traders risk = losing millions worth of cargo (which may total their assets). For the pirate creating such risk, risk = insurance fee at most (a pirate going after a T6 holding 2mil worth of cargo might only have an insurance fee of 100k). The risks just don't add up to me.

2.2) Like I said, pirates present a lot of risk, thus should also be subject to a lot of risk. For the sake of argument, also, imagine this: an explorer spends weeks traversing the galaxy amassing a huge collection of data, and then died by flying into the sun. That's a big risk. So, do we agree that pirates should be subject to such high stakes of risk? Hours and hours of in-game efforts down the drain from 1 mistake?

2.3) Then I rephrase: pirates and players who pose as pirates to kill other players need higher risks.
 
Mentally ill? I can't even respond to the rest as it's almost religious in its zeal.

Can such a topic not be debated with a bit more decorum? Anyway. I've made my point. The topic has now clearly jumped the shark.

--

Buglet, you are under the mistaken belief that trading is more important than any other profession and should be treated better. Meanwhile explorers are being shafted with corruption, miners are busy having various equipment jam, smugglers have had most of their income curtailed and all manner of other issues that have impacted everyone.

About the only people to have a reasonably good time, are traders. Powerplay also legitimises inter-faction killing. The game itself encourages it. So with respect, I believe FD actually expect people to be shot at and or killed.

Just because you may believe it's not acceptable, doesn't mean piracy automatically should carry considerably more risk. Not when there is a pirate faction in the game.

Frankly pirates are the lest of most people's problems. It's the homicidal maniacs that live to PVP everything. Doesn't matter if you are a trader, explorer or miner. They don't care. Anything is fair game. And that is far more impactful than some pirates who just want to make some cash.
 
Last edited:
2.3) Then I rephrase: pirates and players who pose as pirates to kill other players need higher risks.

So much for speaking of pirates differently to PVPers and maniacs, then. I know you are trying to make some valid points, but it just sounds like "I should be allowed to trade my wares without any threat". Fair enough. But I don't think it's reasonable to expect someone to carry millions of credits worth of cargo through an open system and have a great time making huge profits without facing some occasional threat.

Part of the reason trading is profitable, is precisely BECAUSE it has some risk. Punishing others to make a traders life easier shouldn't ever be a part of FD's vocabulary. I'm sorry but there are a lot of other professions that are doing it a bit rough at present.

Fixing bugs, making other professions actually work as intended and improving the experience are far more valuable than making sure <insert bad people here> are punished for daring to perform a little highway robbery.

The original elite was pretty punishing and you could genuinely die if you weren't careful; most pirates aren't interested in killing. That people try to run to save a few hundred k in credits, risking their entire cargo rather than submitting and tossing a few containers overboard is the traders choice.

When I was running cargo (did that for a while to make some cash along with running BB missions) I'd drop some cargo if a pirate jumped me. The loss would be made up on another run and being murdered outright was the exception not the rule.

I don't trade now simply because it's a bit boring - great way to make credits though. :)
 
Last edited:
1) Even in power play, you can land without much fuss at an enemy faction's outposts and stations.

Precisely my point, perhaps you did not fully understand my point. One can easily join a power and begin pirating any other area foreign to it, or even pirate in it with justification. Therefore restricting stations from pirate access doesn't seem to be appropriate when certain powers' undermining mechanic is actually piracy.

And if we want to discuss what is a "just" cause for piracy, I'll refer to the argument about morality earlier in this thread which you bowed out of.

1.1) How exactly do I mask my in-game identity? Again, until this mechanic actually exists in-game, it has no place here.

It's an abstract, passive concept. Also if a mechanic doesn't exist in game, it certainly has its place here. Unless you want to go through the suggestion section of the forum and many other locations and report every single post or reply to them telling their authors that their ideas have no place on this forum.

It makes sense for that there is an explanation of how ships are identified in the game, and masking an identity makes much sense. Also, the very alias we use for our name in game are usually never our real names. We don't know if we're playing by the side of a serial killer, a dog that knows how to use a keyboard, or a cat that dances across the keyboard.

2) So we agree that pirates risk and reward need to be upped? My concern is that the risk that pirates create for other players isn't equivalent to their own risk. While a pirate can quite easily "relieve" a T6 of about 2mil worth of cargo, the game poses no real counter-risk for the pirate. Piracy, if you will, is currently quite a risk-free way to impose danger on other players. Should pirates not also face such dangers?

We do, bounty hunters come after us.

Just as pirates are willing to band together and watch one another's back, traders can also call upon help for escort, bounty hunters can chase us in packs.

Just because people are unwilling to organize themselves and lose out on organization isn't a valid basis for arguing that there is no risk for organized people.

Did you know that equipping chaff/heat sink/shield/scbs will ensure the survival of almost any ship? If you argue that traders shouldn't equip modules that hinder their jump range and cargo space, then I frankly will reply that pirates then shouldn't equip cargo scanner, collector limpet, interdictor, hatch breaker limpet and so on.

Also, traders should always be aware of their surroundings, they have plenty of time to low-wake from super cruise and jump to another system if they feel insecure or think that they are about to be pirated.

There is, if anything, little risk for traders other than the risks traders impose on themselves by not equipping proper modules and be aware of their surroundings.

2.1) Piracy risk is objective I think. It can easily be compared to the risks that other players face.

The moment you mention "compared to" makes it subjective and relative. Also, you've probably noticed by now that everything is subjective to me.

For instance, for traders risk = losing millions worth of cargo (which may total their assets). For the pirate creating such risk, risk = insurance fee at most (a pirate going after a T6 holding 2mil worth of cargo might only have an insurance fee of 100k). The risks just don't add up to me.

The pirate also gets a wanted status which validates bounty hunter/retribution/targeted by player group.

2.2) Like I said, pirates present a lot of risk, thus should also be subject to a lot of risk. For the sake of argument, also, imagine this: an explorer spends weeks traversing the galaxy amassing a huge collection of data, and then died by flying into the sun. That's a big risk. So, do we agree that pirates should be subject to such high stakes of risk? Hours and hours of in-game efforts down the drain from 1 mistake?

If piracy made more credits, I would say we can use an increase in risk. I accept the argument of high risk and high reward is a valid balance, however, the latter is low to an unreasonable degree. Currently, the amount of reward, if anything, doesn't deserve any increase in risk of piracy.

2.3) Then I rephrase: pirates and players who pose as pirates to kill other players need higher risks.

Killing players should be punished by the system in game, yes. However, we do not want to punish it ridiculously to the degree that it makes players feel safe wherever they go. In the sense that if I tell a player "it's your cargo or your life" and the player knows my threat is all bark and no bite, there would be no purpose to even communicate with my prey to begin with.
 
Last edited:
In any case, you are wrong -Islam forbids wifebeating. In fact, wifebeating is found in all cultures...in India, 60% of men admit to wife-beating. For European women aged 16-44 violence in the home is the primary cause of injury and death, more lethal than road accidents and cancer. Between 25% and 50% of women are victims of this violence. In the USA, a FBI report stated that 40% of women killed were murdered by their partners.

Come to Scotland, my wife hammers ME! ;)
 
I never said that combat logging is supported by anyone. as it very much is a clear exploit so please dont try and twist my words.

for bartle. this and its sequal video will cover the basics.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yxpW2ltDNow

as far as how satisfied people are. its important to realise that everyone is different, quite a few people have enjoyed it and are happy with what they have got. its important to remember that improvements matter, but, its impossible to make everyone happy.

to sum up what I am saying. I do want ed to get better, but, I do feel people need to take more responsibility with what they say on the forums, and need to remember that they can only speak for themselfs. if we want the game to be better, we need to work with each other to improve the community aspect.

I wonder if our "killers" watched this... esp. the part about getting their jollies from the misery of others! If that is indeed true, then some people here need serious mental help.
And before I get told "it's only a game", you may wish to remember the victim in all this is very real.
Do sleep well knowing all this, goodnight... killers! :)
 

I can safely say you've made no attempt at appreciating my point. Considering you have an argument for everything, I'm starting to think two possibilities are the case:

1) You and I are polar opposites (which I would welcome)

2) You relish the attention that arises from the debate.

Either way, this discussion is futile.
 
There is risk in trading. Always has been. Always will be. NPC pirates exist, as to CMDRs.

Using the exception to define the rule, is unhelpful and deminishes the value of debate and discussion. Labelling people never helps. If traders simply cannot accept there is risk in plying their trade, then that is a shame.

The punishment mechanic needs work. So does a lot of other parts of the game. However punishment changes cannot and should never ever be done, in a vacuum. It needs consideration with why punishment should exist, for what, and the graduation of response.

Good luck out there, CMDRs. Fly safe. [out]
 
Last edited:
A letter of marque from a faction would be a good start .

I ken it's "Back to the Future"s anniversary week but it seems we've landed in 1660! Avast??? Yarr??? Maybe FD will let yous craft flagpoles, jolly rogers and a crows nest in Horz. ;)
 
There is risk in trading. Always has been. Always will be. NPC pirates exist, as to CMDRs.

Using the exception to define the rule, is unhelpful and deminishes the value of debate and discussion. Labelling people never helps. If traders simply cannot accept there is risk in plying their trade, then that is a shame.

Good luck out there, CMDRs. Fly safe. [out]

I have 1 question for you - I don't wven want you to answer it. Just mull it over.

Why must traders be under so much risk while pirates (or anyone who breaks the in-game law) is exempt from such danger?
 
I can safely say you've made no attempt at appreciating my point. Considering you have an argument for everything, I'm starting to think two possibilities are the case:

1) You and I are polar opposites (which I would welcome)

2) You relish the attention that arises from the debate.

Either way, this discussion is futile.

You may make that assumption, as it is valid as any.

I do appreciate your points for that I am considering them and replying to them rationally.

Having an argument for everything usually means that one is well-prepared and eloquent.

It's possible that we are quite different from one another, and it is something to celebrate.

I already hold much fame on this forum and in-game since I'm the Ambassador and head of PR department for The Code who serves as one of the two points of contact employees of FD utilize to communicate with The Code as a Triple Elite group, also that I am the earliest Archon Delaine coordinator for Power Play since PP started and still am as of the 21st Cycle, (which is this cycle). I sparked the power to life along with other members of The Code, and the power is now maintained with a group of competent strategists and many passionate players and groups.

I already have fame, even if I do not want it nor need it. Therefore I don't think I need nor relish on attention.
 
Last edited:
Code? Never heard of it...

---

Oh wait! That's the group I always see people complaining about. Now I remember.
 
Last edited:
Because the cost of freight and some goods IMPLIES there is delivery risk.

This isn't eurotruck simulator. You are carting stuff. In space. Where a bunch of other people are. That is inherently risky.

That traders openly brag about not using shields. Stripping all protective options like chaff, or even a single SCB. Refuse to consider flying with a combat ship (because they will get a cut of the trade if in a wing) belies the fact that a lot of traders believe they are, frankly, above being impacted by their choices.

If you come from the position that a trader should be safe, then that is the antithesis of this game. You are more than welcome to disagree. But I am afraid there will always be risk. Not accepting to manage that is your choice.

I don't see it the way you do. That's ok. It's called a different of opinion. I full understand and respect where you are coming from. But I don't agree in blanket punishment. It's not as simple as that.

May your next trade be successful, commander.
 
Last edited:

Right. I think I need to make it more simple.

I'm not saying traders need to have risk reduced. In-fact, I think even traders have it too easy.

I think pirates should have higher risks. Right now, the only "risk" pirates face is their rebuy cost, which isn't very high at all.
 
Back
Top Bottom