Griefing "Solution"

[Hal 9000 and Dave]

Ok, I dont mind griefing personally, after all its called elite "DANGEROUS" and I like to believe in an open space future that we would really have homicidal super skilled killers.
(Do yourself a favor and read up on samurai and ronin, they used to kill random people just for looking at them wierd and GET AWAY WITH IT!!!)

Problem:
Player is farting along,
jump,
honk,
jump,
honk,
*weird fairy sparkle sound*, [woah]
interdicted,
ERMAHGERD this guy is shooting me for no reason. :O
0% hull, [knocked out]
*rage, rage against the dying of the light* [mad]
FIN.

Solution:
Victim does NOT have a rebuy, they get no charge, they also receive a full refund for the purchase price of their goods. If, they procurred the goods free, and legally they receive the Galactic average price for them. This charge is passed onto the perpetrators bounty.

Side Effect:
This will offset a lot of the "Grief" felt by the victim, no more than them underestimating a landing on a 9G planet (it hurts if you havent been to one)
This will also allow the "Griefer" to still have their fun, just at a slightly increased value.

Feel free to shoot holes in my idea, grief me baby, hurt my feelings...[haha]

 

[Decksmeck]

Can it be exploited for fast travel to a station?

 

[Decksmeck]

Is the griefer or pirate responsible for paying his own bounty? If not, that might be the way to go. The more ships they kill, the more comes out of their bank if they get killed. If they don't have the credits, they have to liquidate assets. They could end up back in a sidewinder....

The bounty could be calculated by the loss to the victim + a bonus fine. Kill a deep space explorer with 500 million in data and a 50 million ship setup, 550 million gets added to the bounty if the victim could not rebuy and 500 million + insurance cost if they could rebuy. Then the bonus fine is some amount multiplied by the difference in combat levels. The base fine might be 100,000 credits. An elite who kills an elite gets that bonus fine. An elite that kills a harmless pilot might get 10x the fine. So 1 million.

Now, when the offender is killed, you could make it that all players who were killed by the offender, get some compensation from the bounty. Say 90% of their losses. 10% goes to the bounty collector(s) plus all the bonus fines (which all of this comes out of the offender's bank and assets). Now if the bounty could not be covered and the offender was returned to a sidewinder, he would have the remaining bounty on his head still until everything was settled.

Something along those lines maybe.

So you need a bounty database. The bounty is an object. It consists of a list victims. Victim is an object. The victim is CMDR name, Credits, date/time stamp. The bounty object also has a number to hold the amount of the bonus fine. The bounty object is connected to the offender. When the offender kills a player, create a bounty object if there is not one or use the existing bounty object. Calculate victim loss. Add victim object to the list if it is a new victim. If victim is already in list, add new losses to the victim. Calculate bonus fine. Add to the number representing the bonus fines.

When the offender is killed, process the bounty. Total the bounty. If offender bank is equal to or greater than total bounty, deduct amount from offender bank. Add the bounty total to amount to be dispersed. [Otherwise, deduct bank total from total bounty, and make the bank 0, and add bank total to the amount to be dispersed. Liquidate assets from highest value to lowest. As assets are liquidated, deduct from bounty total and add to amount to be dispersed. If bounty total becomes negative stop liquidating assets. Take negative amount and add it to the offender's bank and deduct the negative amount from the amount to be dispersed. Disperse funds to CMDRs on list, from oldest to newest, and to bounty collectors. If all assets are liquidated and bounty total is equal to or greater than 0, respawn offender in sidewinder. Disperse funds but allow the remaining bounty to persist.

Something like that. It would have to be coded and tested of course.

Npc kills that incur a bounty can probably just be added to the bonus fine number. Or a different number if death clears npc related bounties.

 

[Azmuth Divarchchron]

Actually the greifing player already has to pay the rebuy of the player they killed in bounties which has caused alot of greifers to ragequit

 

[varonica]

Solution:
Victim does NOT have a rebuy, they get no charge, they also receive a full refund for the purchase price of their goods. If, they procurred the goods free, and legally they receive the Galactic average price for them. This charge is passed onto the perpetrators bounty.

Do I get my four months of play time, 1b in exploration data payouts and and first found tags back? If no it's just another poor game mechanic discriminating massively against explorers, so the answer is, not good enough, think again.

 

[Decksmeck]

Actually the greifing player already has to pay the rebuy of the player they killed in bounties which has caused alot of greifers to ragequit

Do they realize how much time, money, and effort their victims have put into the game? This isn't an arcade game. It is a game where someone might have spent weeks or even months gathering data only to be killed in the home stretch.

What is lost is time. The problem with the griefer or pirate is they risk very, very little. No one here risks their life. What is important is the time we put into it. Only by putting their own money and assets at perpetual risk, as their victim does, can the pirate or griefer even be playing the same game. Ragequit because of a rebuy cost? Ha. Their risk is so very low for all they take from their fellow CMDRs.

Above, I propose that all progress in terms of money and assets, plus a bonus fine, made by criminal player killing be always at risk. That is close to approximating real death. In a game where their victims can lose hours, days, weeks, months, or even potentially years to a brief encounter with them, it is fair that their accumulated effort is at risk as well. I could be persuaded to agree that it is fair that victims drop off the bounty list after one year so that the potential to "retire" from the pirate life exists.

The game is a simulator for explorers, traders, and the like but it is a quarter arcade game for gankers and pirates who risk little. For this game to work right, we have to turn it into a simulator for them, as well.

 

[Hellfire85]

The game is a simulator for explorers, traders, and the like but it is a quarter arcade game for gankers and pirates who risk little. For this game to work right, we have to turn it into a simulator for them, as well.

The game is already a combat sim more than it is a simulation for traders and explorers.
The reason why I opted for a combat focused "career" is that the trade and exploration content is so shallow it's not even worth mentioning, it's mostly glorified sightseeing.

The game was and will always be advertised with combat as a main feature.
The only valid "solution" to ganking and griefing is to gear up, fight back and git gud.
Stop flying shieldless paper-planes in Open, problem solved.

 

[Decksmeck]

I got to say it dude..."get gud"? Ha. Ha. Ha. You risk a rebuy against someone who could have billions of cr at risk. Dude. You have no pressure. You get little respect from me for being a fantastic combatant because losing means losing little. Now if your wealth was at stake too....but, if you don't like the idea, I guess you can claim good combat skill but you can't claim to be very brave.

 

[Old Duck]

The reason why I opted for a combat focused "career" is that the trade and exploration content is so shallow it's not even worth mentioning, it's mostly glorified sightseeing.

Be glad I'm not a griefer, or I'd send this shieldless, paper-thin argument to the rebuy screen.

The only valid "solution" to ganking and griefing is to gear up, fight back and git gud.
Stop flying shieldless paper-planes in Open, problem solved.

I'm flying shieldless and weaponless, and nobody is griefing me

You are welcome to try, however.

 

[Decksmeck]

Well there are things that could modify the bounty system. For instance, it might take the victim's standing into account with small factions in a system and with the reigning superpower. So if you are in a system with Sirius Corporation security ships and you kill a player who is allied with them, the bounty might be stiffer than if he were only cordial. The same could apply for the superpowers. If your victims were all in allegiance with the federation then the federation would have the bounty on you, but you would still be ok in empire space. I could see increasing the localization of bounties. It might be cool to have a bounty in an independent system but be ok in other systems, for example.

So a bounty would also need to track the issuer. Then if the offender were to be killed in a place he was wanted, he would only need to cover the parts of the bounty that applied.(compensate his victims in that jurisdiction) The local bounties that were issued by factions in that system and the superpower if one was present in that system, would collect. Also, if an allegiance between a local faction and a superpower were to come into effect, then the superpower could enforce the local bounties too.

Doing it this way would make it much riskier to pirate in systems controlled by superpowers because the offender would need to cover all bounties enforced by the superpower, if killed. That would make independent systems more attractive for piracy.

 

[Azmuth Divarchchron]

Do they realize how much time, money, and effort their victims have put into the game? This isn't an arcade game. It is a game where someone might have spent weeks or even months gathering data only to be killed in the home stretch.

What is lost is time. The problem with the griefer or pirate is they risk very, very little. No one here risks their life. What is important is the time we put into it. Only by putting their own money and assets at perpetual risk, as their victim does, can the pirate or griefer even be playing the same game. Ragequit because of a rebuy cost? Ha. Their risk is so very low for all they take from their fellow CMDRs.

Above, I propose that all progress in terms of money and assets, plus a bonus fine, made by criminal player killing be always at risk. That is close to approximating real death. In a game where their victims can lose hours, days, weeks, months, or even potentially years to a brief encounter with them, it is fair that their accumulated effort is at risk as well. I could be persuaded to agree that it is fair that victims drop off the bounty list after one year so that the potential to "retire" from the pirate life exists.

The game is a simulator for explorers, traders, and the like but it is a quarter arcade game for gankers and pirates who risk little. For this game to work right, we have to turn it into a simulator for them, as well.

They ragequit because they are forced to pay the rebuy of their victims on top of their own.
One dude quit because he lost 1 billion cr this way.
What dont you understand about this?
This punishment is already in the game

 

[Decksmeck]

They ragequit because they are forced to pay the rebuy of their victims on top of their own.
One dude quit because he lost 1 billion cr this way.
What dont you understand about this?
This punishment is already in the game

You are saying he quit because he never anticipated losing or because he didn't understand the game?

You don't understand. I suggest a bounty include the rebuy cost + the value of whatever they are carrying. Your friend got off too lightly if his victim had cargo or data.

 

[Hellfire85]

Be glad I'm not a griefer, or I'd send this shieldless, paper-thin argument to the rebuy screen.

How am I supposed to take this comment?

You are welcome to try, however.

I gladly rip your ship to pieces if I meet you in game. Don't complain afterwards tho.

Edit: oh, just checked... you seem to play on PS4... too bad

 

[Captain Jack Sparrow]

Be glad I'm not a griefer, or I'd send this shieldless, paper-thin argument to the rebuy screen.



I'm flying shieldless and weaponless, and nobody is griefing me

You are welcome to try, however.

Not a griefer, but I'll take this challenge (as I do think it's dumb to fly shieldless) when I get back to the bubble (on the way to SAG A). Where do you hang out? PS4 ID?

 

[Azmuth Divarchchron]

You are saying he quit because he never anticipated losing or because he didn't understand the game?

You don't understand. I suggest a bounty include the rebuy cost + the value of whatever they are carrying. Your friend got off too lightly if his victim had cargo or data.

i never said he was my "friend"

and if you think having to pay 1 billion credits in bounty fines is too light then you are obviously a troll.

The current crime and punishment system is already doing its job of reducing the number of greifers in the game.
and whatever cargo the person was carrying is negligible compared to 1 billion credits.

Deal with it.

 

[Old Duck]

Not a griefer, but I'll take this challenge (as I do think it's dumb to fly shieldless) when I get back to the bubble (on the way to SAG A). Where do you hang out? PS4 ID?

CMDR OneOldDuck, but as for me telling you where I hang out, don't make me laugh - that's your job!

Putin to Trump, "Where are all your nuclear submarines?" Trump to Putin, "You got a map and a marker?" [haha]

 

[Captain Jack Sparrow]

CMDR OneOldDuck, but as for me telling you where I hang out, don't make me laugh - that's your job!

Putin to Trump, "Where are all your nuclear submarines?" Trump to Putin, "You got a map and a marker?" [haha]

I thought I read you always flew in solo. Haven't seen you near a CG (lately anyway) or Shinrarta...hmmm....

 

[Cmdr. Numa]

They ragequit because they are forced to pay the rebuy of their victims on top of their own.
One dude quit because he lost 1 billion cr this way.
What dont you understand about this?
This punishment is already in the game

So they don't like their own invested time nullified too ? Who'd have thought.

IMO the only real solution to griefing would be if there would be no loss for anyone in a PvP death. Got killed by a player ? No rebuy for you, no loss of data/cargo, just respawn at the nearest station, or if there is none within 100ly (explorers), respawn one system back from where you were. The attacker on the other hand would only get the normal kill bounty, not the added weight of the victim's rebuy.

 

[Decksmeck]

i never said he was my "friend"

and if you think having to pay 1 billion credits in bounty fines is too light then you are obviously a troll.

The current crime and punishment system is already doing its job of reducing the number of greifers in the game.
and whatever cargo the person was carrying is negligible compared to 1 billion credits.

Deal with it.

Can you see your hypocritical viewpoint? If an explorer with an explorer build loses a billion, you say "Git Gud". But if you stand to lose a billion "Life ain't fair". Well I say full compensation is fair should you get caught. "Get Gudder". Or like a previous poster said, make it the same cost for everyone. Just the rebuy.

 

[Azmuth Divarchchron]

Can you see your hypocritical viewpoint? If an explorer with an explorer build loses a billion, you say "Git Gud". But if you stand to lose a billion "Life ain't fair". Well I say full compensation is fair should you get caught. "Get Gudder". Or like a previous poster said, make it the same cost for everyone. Just the rebuy.

theres litteraly nothing hyprocritical about my viewpoint because a 1 billion credit rebuy doesnt exist.
its like 50 million max
plus the most ive seen on an exploration trip is 40 million. to which i would say frontier needs to add a black box that can be retrieved if the explorer dies out in the cosmos, I highly doubt there are any explorers out there taking the time to pull in 1 billion in exploration data at a time.

Also I never said "git gud" I said that greifers are already punished in significant amounts already. hence them being forced to pay 1 billion in bounty fines if they get caught and therefore ragequitting. But whatever floats your boat?