I'm not talking about PvPers or even players that interdict and kill randoms in Elite. Talking about griefers in general. There's something sadistic about it. I've never felt the need to mercilessly f with people in an online game.
Griefing
- Thread starter pookeyhead
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I'm not talking about PvPers or even players that interdict and kill randoms in Elite. Talking about griefers in general. There's something sadistic about it. I've never felt the need to mercilessly f with people in an online game.
Theres a big difference between harassment and messing about with people.
I guess it's considered otherwise in the modern age, but even when I was a kid not so very long ago people had much thicker skins.
Ramming someone outside a station for example, is at best an inconveiniece to another player, its not harassing them.
Targeting the same guy for hours on end and tracking him everywhere whilst hurling unpleasentaries at them whilst trying to kill them, then to continually repeat this for a while could definatly be considered greifing.
However sitting above the slot at a populated station with a fast ship and forceshells, and making attempts to get large ships wedged in the toast rack is just messing about. You're not targeting a specific person to make thier gametime miserable, it's just a bit of fun.
People take other players actions very harshly in this game, fair enough, it involves loss, but to get back to the subject, it doesnt justify people actively cheating and nor should it.
Greifing or not, cheating has always been considered worse, and exploits, of which the 15second timer is generally considered, are just a lesser form of cheating.
Camping for example, in FPS games, is generally frowned upon, but leaving the game just because your team is losing? Noone wants to play with those people.
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Deleted member 38366
D
Hehe, turns out I was spot-on. I admit I left a honeypot trap in my last post and you went right for the gusto.
Just because we play a Game that has Weapons does not mean - by any way - Players would have to expect nor use those Weapons around every corner.
The Weapons by themselves don't do anything. It's the person behind the controls that operates and targets and fires them.
And the strawman argument "you should not be playing online games" is by far the weakest logical fallacy I've read in these Forums in a long time
For many Griefers/Gankers, it's very difficult to stomach what they really are.
Every single time, though, one fact remains : it's not "all the others" that are the problem. It's them.
(to give the positive counter-test for this statement, let's check how many Players in this Game complain about what I'm doing/have been doing in the last months..... Result : 0. NIL)
I've always respected (not liked - but respected) Gankers/Griefers who were honest about their motivations and attitude, especially with the unique design issues this specific Game has.
But the Ganking (GvP) advocates and their supporters/sockpuppets trying to hide behind whatever excuse or fake arguments they can come up with? Sorry, that's nothing that can hold up. All the dishonesty, lies, PR, organized propaganda and smokescreens can't hide the simple truth. At best, it comes around as pathetic and can't possibly be taken serious nor as basis for any form of sensible discussion. Nothing useful can come from it.
Hence, I'll stop posting into the thread myself as well. A pointless waste of time.
PS.
It's true that the Game originally (incl. DB statements from the kickstarter area) was intended to be a PvE & PvP ("rare and meaningful" [sic]) environment.
Instead, it has rapidly decayed into a GvP (Ganker vs. Player) environment due to its design issues.
As stated numerous times though, not the prime fault of Players. That Design Decision rested with FDev, which has been discussed into oblivion in the distant past already.
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Deleted member 182079
D
If someone did that to me, and I'd have nothing to lose other than a modest rebuy, I'd probably roll my eyes a bit and laugh it off. If someone did it to me a second time, I'd probably block them.
And if someone did that to me in my Beluga with 15m or so rebuy, several missions of VIP passengers I spent the last hour ferrying around the bubble in order to gain rep and credits, and an Elite NPC pilot, I'd likely block them straightaway. And I don't report players but in such case might consider an exception.
It might be fun for the perpetrator, no doubt. But it's definitely griefing, alright.
Depends on what side of the fence you're sat on
What's "harmless fun" for you can be considered harassment from the other persons perspective.
I bet you don't do this to NPCs in solo do you? Not fun enough for ya?
So the 15 sec timer to log out is a no no then?...but it's a game mechanic and it's definitely allowed in game...similar words used by yourself to justify harmless fun.
I've also seen arguments from others where they've said solo and blocking people should be removed as that's "not fair" to player killers.
That said...I'm actually all for the timer being increased in open if another human is in your instance and you're in open space (not docked)...which I am sure you'd agree with...I'd increase this to 1 min, but to counter this I'm also in favour of hi-sec systems being "safe havens" for players...ie if you attack a clean NPC or human player in a hi-sec system then security come down on you with a tonne of bricks. They will hound you out of that system and any other hi-sec system in a 50Ly radius and kill you repeatedly for x number of days. Even if they kill you 200 times they would still come after you until the x days timer is up. From your perspective the NPC security is just having some fun
Just like you see combat logging and menu logging as an exploit or a form of cheating I view the fact that the game doesn't enforce hi-sec security as utterly ludicrous and an exploit used by player killers.
If you're in an anarchy system then literally anything goes...fully tooled up cutter vs trade sidewinder...perfectly ok imo...it's anarchy after all...but hi-sec should damn well mean hi-sec! Why this hasn't been enforced in anyones guess and only FD themselves know the answer to this one.
The fact ED doesn't enforce security is the main crux of the issue and until this is sorted out then there will always be threads like this one and there will always be people like yourself defending your right to blow anything and everyone up for no reason.
If any game, not just ED, has a mechanic that allows one human to have "harmless fun" with another player who did not consent then people will always take advantage of this mechanic, always! The reasons why players do these things is really irrelevant.
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Hehe, turns out I was spot-on. I admit I left a honeypot trap in my last post and you went right for the gusto.
Just because we play a Game that has Weapons does not mean - by any way - Players would have to expect nor use those Weapons around every corner.
The Weapons by themselves don't do anything. It's the person behind the controls that operates and targets and fires them.
And the strawman argument "you should not be playing online games" is by far the weakest logical fallacy I've read in these Forums in a long time
For many Griefers/Gankers, it's very difficult to stomach what they really are.
Every single time, though, one fact remains : it's not "all the others" that are the problem. It's them.
(to give the positive counter-test for this statement, let's check how many Players in this Game complain about what I'm doing/have been doing in the last months..... Result : 0. NIL)
I've always respected (not liked - but respected) Gankers/Griefers who were honest about their motivations and attitude, especially with unique design issues this specific Game has.
But the Ganking (GvP) advocates and their supporters/sockpuppets trying to hide behind whatever excuse or fake arguments they can come up with? Sorry, that's nothing that can hold up. All the dishonesty, lies, PR, organized propaganda and smokescreens can't hide the simple truth. At best, it comes around as pathetic and can't possibly be taken serious nor as basis for any form of sensible discussion. Nothing useful can come from it.
Hence, I'll stop posting into the thread myself as well. A pointless waste of time.
PS.
It's true that the Game originally (incl. DB statements from the kickstarter area) was intended to be a PvE & PvP ("rare and meaningful" [sic]) environment.
Instead, it has rapidly decayed into a GvP (Ganker vs. Player) environment due to its design issues.
As stated numerous times though, not the prime fault of Players. That Design Decision rested with FDev, which has been discussed into oblivion in the distant past already.
You are soundsing like someone with very little overall experience with them judging by this reply so I'm not sure the argument is a strawman.
Just because people arent obliged to use them doesnt mean they wont. As I said before, it's the same in any other openworld multiplayer game.
Take GTAV for example, you can progress in the online mode via PvE activity, but not everyone chooses that route because the game offers PvP interaction in many forms, and for most people playing with others is more fun than playing with a computer. If someone kills you in GTA, would you go any whine on the rockstar forums? No. Because you'd be laughed off it.
People play games for different reasons, and if that doesnt line up with your veiws that doesnt make them a greifer.
Just because someone gets enjoyment out of being a pain in a videogame does not mean they have malicious intent behind it, they are just playing the game to have some fun, I very much doubt that the thought of how the opponent feels even crosses the mind of most players in online games. Why is Elite such a different ball game? Its not. At all. You have the same deal in pretty much any vaguley similar concept. Some want to make money, others want to make fun.
PvP might have intended to be rare and meaningful, however the community evidently had a taste for it of it wouldnt be as prevelant as it is now would it. Seems to me this game's online elements have been moulded quite a lot by the playerbase, though there are some definate flaws, greifing is not one of them no matter how desparately you might want it to be.
PS: I'm not here to discuss greifing, I'm here to discuss the matter of how a longer logout timer is needed to preserve any sense of actual game mechanics. As opposed to a loophole for the kind of player who would rather exploit the game than actually play it. So can we have less thread derailment attempts please because nothing makes you look worse on forums than trying to divert the topic to your own personal beef. Thank you very much.
Depends on what side of the fence you're sat on
What's "harmless fun" for you can be considered harassment from the other persons perspective.
I bet you don't do this to NPCs in solo do you? Not fun enough for ya?
So the 15 sec timer to log out is a no no then?...but it's a game mechanic and it's definitely allowed in game...similar words used by yourself to justify harmless fun.
I've also seen arguments from others where they've said solo and blocking people should be removed as that's "not fair" to player killers.
That said...I'm actually all for the timer being increased in open if another human is in your instance and you're in open space (not docked)...which I am sure you'd agree with...I'd increase this to 1 min, but to counter this I'm also in favour of hi-sec systems being "safe havens" for players...ie if you attack a clean NPC or human player in a hi-sec system then security come down on you with a tonne of bricks. They will hound you out of that system and any other hi-sec system in a 50Ly radius and kill you repeatedly for x number of days. Even if they kill you 200 times they would still come after you until the x days timer is up. From your perspective the NPC security is just having some fun
Just like you see combat logging and menu logging as an exploit or a form of cheating I view the fact that the game doesn't enforce hi-sec security as utterly ludicrous and an exploit used by player killers.
If you're in an anarchy system then literally anything goes...fully tooled up cutter vs trade sidewinder...perfectly ok imo...it's anarchy after all...but hi-sec should damn well mean hi-sec! Why this hasn't been enforced in anyones guess and only FD themselves know the answer to this one.
The fact ED doesn't enforce security is the main crux of the issue and until this is sorted out then there will always be threads like this one and there will always be people like yourself defending your right to blow anything and everyone up for no reason.
If any game, not just ED, has a mechanic that allows one human to have "harmless fun" with another player who did not consent then people will always take advantage of this mechanic, always! The reasons why players do these things is really irrelevant.
Actually I used to sit outside Obsidian orbital back in the day because it has an alarmingly high concentration of large passenger vessels, but then it was anarchy back then, so it was a thing you could find a large amount of amusement in, seeing how many you could get piled up in there was actually endlessly delightful. Players get the treatment because they are often more commonly in large vessels in 'rarta.
Hah.
No I think you're a little off the mark there, that would be fine, because most PvP ships will be able to handle any amount of system security for long enough to get the job done if thats thier chosen motivation.
Nice try to put words in my mouth but I never said I want the right to blow up any ship at any time, not once, so reel your neck in guy.
Clearly you've chosen to ignore the point. People know what these games entail and still buy them, stupid that isnt it?
Nooooouuuuu! Not again! It's just infantile jerks playing a game...
No, no they wouldn't...by enforcing security I mean like 10+ fully engineered combat condas jumping in and wiping the floor with said player...not the odd viper that jumps in and tickles their shields...I mean PROPER security response...enough of a response so when said player jumped back into a hi-sec system in a 50ly radius where the crime was committed they would be forced to jump out after 30 seconds or be turned into space toast within 40 seconds.
This would make anarchy and hi-sec systems actually live up to their name and would improve gameplay across the board.
touchy...try not telling others what to do...forums are "harmless fun" after all
There you have it folks.
Explorers and bulk traders; are just masochists. ((in general use) a person who enjoys an activity that appears to be painful or tedious. Mind you by that definition. Everyone who plays Elite, falls into that category.
Well then for being such a smart guy, Braben really miscalculated or is just super naive to design the game this way and not expect ganking to be a common thing.
Not sure what you’re referring to as far as I’m concerned.
So at 15 pages in, what is the consensus?
In game griefers, forum griefers, who are the real baddies?
Finger-waggers gonna finger-wag without actually offering solutions, people being finger-wagged at tell the finger-waggers to go blow smoke, or else call the finger-waggers out for being more toxic than the behaviour they're finger-wagging at.
Meanwhile the game continues as before, as it always does, and always will. Maybe someday someone will post a thread that actually proposes a workable solution instead of just whining about what happens when you don't use the solutions you already have at your disposal, but this is not that thread.
Meanwhile the game continues as before, as it always does, and always will. Maybe someday someone will post a thread that actually proposes a workable solution instead of just whining about what happens when you don't use the solutions you already have at your disposal, but this is not that thread.
Then why are you in this thread ranting? Did you read the OP?
He was complaining about people camping the nav beacon in supercruise in Deciat. Considering the mechanics of Elite: Dangerous, there is nothing about this behavior that is in any way, shape, or form griefing as most people mean it.
But what you don't understand is that in Elite: Dangerous "griefing" is literally "any antagonistic action."
This community's sense of perspective is warped beyond belief and the game, and our enjoyment of it, suffers for it.
I was sleeping. Good morning. Ready to get raked over the coals again today?
Take your worthless opinion somewhere else then, please.
Love it!
The crazy thing is that the solution has always been in game: Modes...
I spend most of my time in open, but in Colonia, playing as I wish. If I really am not in the mood for 'socialising' I'll change mode and carry on doing my thing. What I don't understand is a player going to a known 'hotspot' in open with a ship that would disintegrate if they sneezed hard and then complain they were blown up by another player, it doesn't make sense.
Clogging is literally against the ToS and people get banned for it.
Stop condoning it, please.
rootsrat
Volunteer Moderator
Simply killing another player is not griefing for me. It's ganking. I draw a line between the two.
How do you feel about the actual OP then? His thread title indicates this is griefing.
I mean, for crying out loud people. Do any of you finger waggers see the problem here? Or are you just here because you think your posting is annoying us somehow?
Yeah that's the lamest of arguments.
Killing the opponent in COD is literally the point of the game, the objective all gameplay mechanics converge towards.
Killing an Asp in Deciat is not "winning the game". It's done with no concern whatsoever for "winning" or in-game achievements. It's done with the only objective to make someone upset.
What do you usually call people who rejoice making people angry?
Yeah, the difference is: you like to blame the defenseless Asp minding its own business. We like to blame the jerk who actually does the shooting.
Funny world uh?
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