groups revisited

strooka

strooka
so ive read that a player can be in 3 different groups, being auto invited to battles or refused by himself. as shown here http://forums.frontier.co.uk/showthread.php?t=6300

but doesnt that make piracy unplayable? isn't it like star conflict then where players wait until their grup is full and gamble then?

i mean for example if you wanna trade, you go into a solo group, if you want to fight into the all players group. but you miss all the traders, cause they are all in the solo group....

doesnt it also take the interest take out of the game, if you know, no one can shoot me if you are in a solo group?
 

Capt. Hook

Capt. Hook
For those players who don't want (for a multitude of reasons) to play with other players but still enjoy the E D universe, the game caters for their style of gameplay (fair play).

The game will also offer game options those wishing to participate in multiplayer versions of the same universe, where activities such as piracy against other players are facilitated (fair play again).

Basically E D is being fair to as many players as possible to suit a multitude of playing styles and I think that should be welcomed personally. Just my two cents :cool:
 

Bingo Brewster

Bingo Brewster
strooka said:
so ive read that a player can be in 3 different groups, being auto invited to battles or refused by himself. as shown here http://forums.frontier.co.uk/showthread.php?t=6300

but doesnt that make piracy unplayable? isn't it like star conflict then where players wait until their grup is full and gamble then?

i mean for example if you wanna trade, you go into a solo group, if you want to fight into the all players group. but you miss all the traders, cause they are all in the solo group....

doesnt it also take the interest take out of the game, if you know, no one can shoot me if you are in a solo group?
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NPCs can shoot you. Shoot you up real nice ;)
Seriously though, this is/was a huge discussion point. As far as I know, you can be in a group with your amigo/as and still be in MFG ( Maximum fun group or All) or not, as you choose.
 

Erimus Kamzel

Erimus Kamzel
strooka said:
so ive read that a player can be in 3 different groups, being auto invited to battles or refused by himself. as shown here http://forums.frontier.co.uk/showthread.php?t=6300

but doesnt that make piracy unplayable? isn't it like star conflict then where players wait until their grup is full and gamble then?

i mean for example if you wanna trade, you go into a solo group, if you want to fight into the all players group. but you miss all the traders, cause they are all in the solo group....

doesnt it also take the interest take out of the game, if you know, no one can shoot me if you are in a solo group?
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You can still be a pirate but your 'victims' will be (on the whole) npc's. Once people get tired of dying to player pirates they'll use the grouping system to increase their odds on avoiding them - its inevitable. Pretty soon after release I can see piracy devolving into a player v npc only 'profession' with the odd pvp pirate encounter being one of veterans preying on brand new players who haven't figured out the mechanic yet. I'm sure there'll be exceptions though, and possibly be pirate associations made up of dedicated pvp'ers that will fight each other. And hopefully a sort of Federation on Free Traders alliance that will stick to the 'all' group and move around in escorted convoys - for roleplay or because they prefer the thrill of pvp encounters? :)

As for piracy and groups in general, I'm not sure if that's good or bad since I've never played the pirate role in games before so it doesn't bother me too much, but if I did try my hand at it I'd hope FD would at least make npc's carry decent loot and put up a good fight, otherwise it'll get boring fast.

The group system is fine in theory but some of us campaigned a while ago for an 'all' group where no switching to private or solo sub-groups would be allowed. http://forums.frontier.co.uk/showpost.php?p=149693&postcount=1

Those choosing to play within it would effectively be all in one gameworld, although instances would still exist obviously. That would at least close some loop holes people will use to find a path of easiest resistance. I guess we'll have to wait and see how the masses react to the grouping system once it gets into the live game. I'd edge my bets that pirates and pvp'ers will hate it and traders and explorers will love it :D Personally I see a ton of issues, but we'll see!
 
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-o-

O
Erimus said:
I guess we'll have to wait and see how the masses react to the grouping system once it gets into the live game. I'd edge my bets that pirates and pvp'ers will hate it and traders and explorers will love it :D Personally I see a ton of issues, but we'll see!
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From that you can deduce that pirates prefer full MP, while traders/explorers prefer SP (or friendly MP).

Why would prey want to associate with their killers?

I think it will be a lonely universe for pirates too - unless the bounty hunter mechanic ironically comes to their rescue.
 

Cmdr Eagleboy

Cmdr Eagleboy
strooka said:
so ive read that a player can be in 3 different groups, being auto invited to battles or refused by himself. as shown here http://forums.frontier.co.uk/showthread.php?t=6300

but doesnt that make piracy unplayable? isn't it like star conflict then where players wait until their grup is full and gamble then?

i mean for example if you wanna trade, you go into a solo group, if you want to fight into the all players group. but you miss all the traders, cause they are all in the solo group....

doesnt it also take the interest take out of the game, if you know, no one can shoot me if you are in a solo group?
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These and similar confusion comes from people with clear MMO background, where NPCs are just dumb bystanders, and majority of activities are done by players themselves.

Elite: Dangerous is practically PvE game. Therefore majority of fights you will do will be with NPCs. If you are pirate, you will attack NPC traders. If you bounty hunter you will hunt down NPC pirates. And that sort of.
 

Cmdr Eagleboy

Cmdr Eagleboy
-o- said:
From that you can deduce that pirates prefer full MP, while traders/explorers prefer SP (or friendly MP).

Why would prey want to associate with their killers?

I think it will be a lonely universe for pirates too - unless the bounty hunter mechanic ironically comes to their rescue.
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It was never lonely in previous games. You really need give NPCs a chance before jumping to conclusions.
 

Oss133

Oss133
Pecisk said:
Elite: Dangerous is practically PvE game. Therefore majority of fights you will do will be with NPCs. If you are pirate, you will attack NPC traders. If you bounty hunter you will hunt down NPC pirates. And that sort of.
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Indeed. It should be irrelevant whether another ship is piloted by a player or an NPC. If you choose to exclusively attack only other players, you are not a pirate or a bounty hunter.
 

Erimus Kamzel

Erimus Kamzel
oss133 said:
Indeed. It should be irrelevant whether another ship is piloted by a player or an NPC.
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I agree with this but would take it a step further to possibly make the pvp / pve debate moot once and for all. I would make NPC's and Players virtually indistinguishable between each other at first sight/scan. So the only way to find out who's who would be to conduct an active scan on that approaching vessel, and even that could be nullified by player or NPC countermeasures. In time you would obviously learn the tell tale signs of human flight behavior over scripted AI but I think it would make first encounters more interesting - not knowing what you're up against on first sight would get the old adrenalin flowing :smilie:
 

Oss133

Oss133
Erimus said:
I agree with this but would take it a step further to possibly make the pvp / pve debate moot once and for all. I would make NPC's and Players virtually indistinguishable between each other at first sight/scan. So the only way to find out who's who would be to conduct an active scan on that approaching vessel, and even that could be nullified by player or NPC countermeasures. In time you would obviously learn the tell tale signs of human flight behavior over scripted AI but I think it would make first encounters more interesting - not knowing what you're up against on first sight would get the old adrenalin flowing :smilie:
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I have made this same request in other threads. I will find it immersion bending to know that players and NPC's are two distinct groups. However FD want players to be identified as part of a unique group.
 

Cmdr Eagleboy

Cmdr Eagleboy
oss133 said:
I have made this same request in other threads. I will find it immersion bending to know that players and NPC's are two distinct groups. However FD want players to be identified as part of a unique group.
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When this was last communicated? They could give some option to visually turn identificators on/off.
 

Greeboski

G
oss133 said:
I have made this same request in other threads. I will find it immersion bending to know that players and NPC's are two distinct groups. However FD want players to be identified as part of a unique group.
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is that how the NPC's refer to us player ? 'there simply unique , just look at the dents arount the docking bay door and there still trying to fly. unique' :p
 

-o-

O
Pecisk said:
It was never lonely in previous games. You really need give NPCs a chance before jumping to conclusions.
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Think the OP was talking about grouping, which NPCs are immune from.

I, for one, will not be doing much multi-player, but I can understand his/her concerns that pirate players may be restricted in hunting other players.

I find it interesting that this may end up being a co-op style multiplayer game, rather than a full multi-player game considering the compromises made to the single player game to cater for the compromised full multi player game.

Pecisk said:
I really don't care if I have to deal with human pirate or NPC pirate
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.. ahh the age of seamless integration between flesh and plastic .. as beautiful as it is horrific.
 

Cmdr Eagleboy

Cmdr Eagleboy
-o- said:
Think the OP was talking about grouping, which NPCs are immune from.

I, for one, will not be doing much multi-player, but I can understand his/her concerns that pirate players may be restricted in hunting other players.
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OP was talking about grouping from "ohh I won't get fun from other players" POV, which I pointed out isn't exactly what Elite is about. Another thing is as pirate you don't hunt players or NPCs - if you do, you aren't pirate but a simple griefer - as piracy rating comes from actually getting goods from players while not destroying their ships. And if it's very important for you to hunt down human players, then ED isn't exactly game built around this aspect in first place.
 

-o-

O
Pecisk said:
Another thing is as pirate you don't hunt players or NPCs - if you do, you aren't pirate but a simple griefer - as piracy rating comes from actually getting goods from players while not destroying their ships. And if it's very important for you to hunt down human players, then ED isn't exactly game built around this aspect in first place.
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No, not a griever, just a player who enjoys playing against other players more than NPCs. Some may even say that's 'normal' - heaven forbid.

ED isn't a game that focusses on any aspect. It is based on allowing you to do anything you want, and if that is hunting other players, then that's as valid a reason as trading or mining. Unfortunately for such players, the player grouping mechanism as described may make such a play style difficult for them.
 
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