groups revisited

[Greeboski]

No, not a griever, just a player who enjoys playing against other players more than NPCs. Some may even say that's 'normal' - heaven forbid.

ED isn't a game that focusses on any aspect. It is based on allowing you to do anything you want, and if that is hunting other players, then that's as valid a reason as trading or mining. Unfortunately for such players, the player grouping mechanism as described may make such a play style difficult for them.

hmm , no the mechanism makes it a lot easyer , they are just called bounty hunters

 

[-o-]

hmm , no the mechanism makes it a lot easyer , they are just called bounty hunters

BHs are higher in the food chain, not lower, so the effects on them for live prey will be even worse.

 

[Greeboski]

BHs are higher in the food chain, not lower, so the effects on them for live prey will be even worse.

so the game, by design with a food chain, is fundimently unbalanced and therefore unbalancable ?

i thought i had seen you in the ddf, but guess not. when players get a (state) bounty placed on them (for any number of reasons, including repetedly not learning to fly straght) anyone can then enter their instance to claim the bounty. if you have a cloud analyser you can follow players into an instance. and that is looking for one exact player, to find any is even easyer.

many gamers dont like pvp and only fairly small fraction of gamers ever post on the games forum. even here where we have all parted with our cash nowhere near 37000 peeps have actualy posted. im sure someone has an exact figure on that (and i dont meen the current number of backers )

 

[strooka]

we will see if its a npc game

afaik now, you can stick together wih another guy who disables the ban to each other

but the bans that are put upon u lets u nearly undisturbed trade as a pirate

until bonty hunters come along

 

[Atinus]

Once people get tired of dying to player pirates they'll use the grouping system to increase their odds on avoiding them - its inevitable. Pretty soon after release I can see piracy devolving into a player v npc only 'profession' with the odd pvp pirate encounter being one of veterans preying on brand new players who haven't figured out the mechanic yet.

This assumes that everyone will amass in limited player groups and not participate in the All community. That, somehow, with tens of thousands of players, the only ones who will play in the All setting are pirates. But why would that be? We're not robots, we're individuals with individual preferences.

I personally plan on flying solo and trading and bounty hunting in the All group, so there you have it. The cargo's good pirate bait.

 

[-o-]

so the game, by design with a food chain, is fundimently unbalanced and therefore unbalancable ?


i thought i had seen you in the ddf, but guess not. when players get a (state) bounty placed on them (for any number of reasons, including repetedly not learning to fly straght) anyone can then enter their instance to claim the bounty. if you have a cloud analyser you can follow players into an instance. and that is looking for one exact player, to find any is even easyer.

Your talking about NPCs / player balance. I am talking about player / player balance. The OP was talking about grouping which only affects players, not NPCs.

I think bounty vouchers will be rare. Playing a bounty hunter who hunts other players will be even more rare than playing a pirate who hunts players. Its a different story once you throw NPCs in the mix, but then you are talking about fighting NPCs, not players which is what the thread is about.

The OP was expressing his concern about players losing interest in the game because they are restricted from attacking other players due to the grouping mechanism.

 

[Greeboski]

Your talking about NPCs / player balance. I am talking about player / player balance. The OP was talking about grouping which only affects players, not NPCs.

I think bounty vouchers will be rare. Playing a bounty hunter who hunts other players will be even more rare than playing a pirate who hunts players. Its a different story once you throw NPCs in the mix, but then you are talking about fighting NPCs, not players which is what the thread is about.

The OP was expressing his concern about players losing interest in the game because they are restricted from attacking other players due to the grouping mechanism.

no i was definatly talking about player on player interactions and conectiviy to a perticular (chosen target , not by mission which would be another way) player

 

[Greeboski]

to put what i said another way , even if a player blocks everyone who ever trys to pirate and every bounty hunter . . . 1) if anyone else in there instance hasnt done the same then it has only lowered the chances not eliminated them . . . 2) if any player in said instance comuits a crime the door is opened . . . 3) when they jump their hyperspase trail can be tracked , so the pirate forces their way in.

 

[Erimus Kamzel]

This assumes that everyone will amass in limited player groups and not participate in the All community. That, somehow, with tens of thousands of players, the only ones who will play in the All setting are pirates. But why would that be? We're not robots, we're individuals with individual preferences.

I personally plan on flying solo and trading and bounty hunting in the All group, so there you have it. The cargo's good pirate bait.

I guess that all depends on how player pirates in ED ply their trade. If its anything like the myriad of other multiplayer games where one profession preys on another, then I can see the prey getting fed up sooner or later and using the mechanics at hand to reduce the hassle.

If you polled players on whether or not they'll risk transporting anything of value within the all group, or drop into solo play to run that trip instead, I'd be surprised if many don't opt for the latter.

You say you'll run trade runs in the all group. Fair play to you but lets see if you have 2nd thoughts when your cargo has taken you 3 weeks to save for and your next trade run takes you through known player pirate infested space. That solo option will look pretty appealing, just this once huh? Hopefully NPC's in subgroups will be so badass people will opt to stay in the all group for protection and seek real player escort, allying themselves with like-minded players.

I may set up that Federation of Free Traders alliance I mentioned earlier. A homage to an old game, but an idea that can work in ED with traders working together and staying true to a proper MP world by not bugging out to subgroups on a whim

 

[strooka]

again, to point it out:

DDF, ignore list:

If at least one player is neutral or friends with the ignored player above then they will be able to join that session providing there is no better suited players trying to get in at the same time when only one slot is available

meaning i just need 1 another pirate friend with is neutral or friendly to me to being get invited in all groups even if im banned ^^

prepare for battle, solo wannabe traders!!!

 

[Perseus]

prepare for battle, solo wannabe traders!!!

Prepare your escape pod, pirate.

I'm quite confused by the grouping system, it seems to have strange paradoxes and loops that deify my understanding. I'm going to wait for the game for practical clarification.

 

[Erimus Kamzel]

Prepare your escape pod, pirate.

I'm quite confused by the grouping system, it seems to have strange paradoxes and loops that deify my understanding. I'm going to wait for the game for practical clarification.

Its pretty straight forward. You play in an 'all' group - which is basically your typical multiplayer world.

But you can create a solo group within it which magically makes all the other real human players vanish from your game - leaving you with NPC encounters only. Similarly you can join a private group that does the same as solo, except there will be a few other human players in there with you - the players you specifically invited.

As far as I know you can pop back into the 'all' group pretty much on a whim - not 100% sure on that though. I would hope there would at least be a 24 hour timer to reduce exploitation, but haven't heard it mentioned.

In the 'all' group you also have a friends and ignore list that works in a way that anyone on your ignore list has a reduced chance of ever appearing in your instance. And those on your friends list have an increased chance.

Basically if you never want to deal with player pirates you can add all the well known and notorious ones to your ignore list and reduce your chances of ever meeting them in your travels, or you can drop into a sub-group and be 100% positive you'll never meet them.

I'd be surprised if strooka's loophole isn't closed by the end of beta. I think beta will, as you say, give us practical clarification on it all and iron out any issues

 

[strooka]

Its pretty straight forward. You play in an 'all' group - which is basically your typical multiplayer world.

But you can at any time create a solo group within it which magically makes all the other real human players vanish from your game - leaving you with NPC encounters only. Similarly you can join a private group that does the same as solo, except there will be a few other human players in there with you - the players you specifically invited.

As far as I know you can pop back into the 'all' group pretty much on a whim - not 100% sure on that though. I would hope there would at least be a 24 hour timer to reduce exploitation, but haven't heard it mentioned.

In the 'all' group you also have a friends and ignore list that works in a way that anyone on your ignore list has a reduced chance of ever appearing in your instance. And those on your friends list have an increased chance.

Basically if you never want to deal with player pirates you can add all the well known and notorious ones to your ignore list and reduce your chances of ever meeting them in your travels, or you can drop into a sub-group and be 100% positive you'll never meet them.

I'd be surprised if strooka's loophole isn't closed by the end of beta.

i have been informed that you must enter another account or player to be in another group, that means at player creation you choose your group if im right... well i think the admin should speak a clarifying word here

 

[Andrew Sayers]

I'm quite confused by the grouping system, it seems to have strange paradoxes and loops that deify my understanding. I'm going to wait for the game for practical clarification.

An easy way to think of it is that grouping is a hard rule whereas ignoring/allying/etc. is a hint.

You can only select one group at a time, and can only ever be instanced with players in that same group, so if you're in the "all" group and I'm in a private group, you and I cannot meet.

You can create all the hints you like, and the matchmaking algorithm will use that information to select an optimal subset of players in your group to appear when you go places. So if we're both in the "all" group but you've ignored me, you and I only have reduced chance of meeting.

I suspect this is something Frontier will tune more when we see player behaviour in the beta and gamma stages. If everyone picks a different direction and goes exploring, players mightn't meet each other often enough for grouping to even matter. Whereas if everyone sets up little communities and moans when nomadic pirates come to town, they might have people working full-time on the grouping mechanism throughout the gamma and after the game goes live.

 

[jabokai]

i have been informed that you must enter another account or player to be in another group, that means at player creation you choose your group if im right... well i think the admin should speak a clarifying word here

I'm not the admin, but that is false... you can switch groups during play, although not at such times as would make you blink out of existence for others (so no using it to escape combat, for example).

 

[strooka]

Prepare your escape pod, pirate.

I'm quite confused by the grouping system, it seems to have strange paradoxes and loops that deify my understanding. I'm going to wait for the game for practical clarification.

im warming up my weapons....already...

i think we must clarify between sessions and ignore lists. players can be in the same session, but on ignore list, 2 players (pirates) can be ignored by one trader but like it is defined they fill up the least slots cause they are friendy to each other if im right. else there should be a freighter available, neutral to all which is proving the rights (provided by pirate faction).

 

[Erimus Kamzel]

i have been informed that you must enter another account or player to be in another group, that means at player creation you choose your group if im right... well i think the admin should speak a clarifying word here

I really hope that's the case as its something I campaigned for months ago. If its changed so that characters are restricted to live only in the group they're created into and can't switch to another group then I'll be over the moon. Sadly I doubt that's the case though as I haven't seen such an important game changing mechanic mentioned. Are you in the DDF strooka? It would be nice to have some updated info on this :smilie:

 

[Erimus Kamzel]

I'm not the admin, but that is false... you can switch groups during play, although not at such times as would make you blink out of existence for others (so no using it to escape combat, for example).

Curse you jabokai Thought it was too good to be true

 

[strooka]

I'm not the admin, but that is false... you can switch groups during play, although not at such times as would make you blink out of existence for others (so no using it to escape combat, for example).

well i think this fair for all.

 

[jabokai]

Curse you jabokai Thought it was too good to be true

I should say "as far as we know". I got burned by Michael Brookes saying they hadn't announced something (i.e. keeping their options open) when other devs HAD said something... so, clearly, they like to keep their options open!