Guardians Discussions

[Yure]

Agreed, but it's all a bit vague and there's other contrary points from Ram Tah.

It doesn't say the politicians started taking a religious overtone. It says:

"The politicians were the first to react to the changing social landscape, but soon the resistance to the technological revolution took on a religious overtone."

No, and RT doesn't say it was.

That's not the truth at all. That's just putting a human twist on it. Their culture and society is completely different.

Politicians are always the first the first to react to certain events, at least publicly and often they try to manipulate events to their agenda. Human twist it has because the story was written by a human. And I disagree, there very little about their society than is different than ours.

So in the scenario you're setting out, why wouldn't the rich have just kept the implants for themselves and why were the Guardians with implants exiled?

Not to say some didn't. But being if your already on top why allow the field to be equalised? Best just to get rid of the new factor.

Why would the zealots have been at a huge disadvantage? And where does the bit about the sentient AI helping those who are keeping them shackled come from?

Well the Zealots were either using AIs or they weren't. If they weren't they they are at a mass disadvantage. If they were, somehow forcing a sentient AI to work with them... It makes no sense. Why would a sentient so work against its own interest?

This only applies if there are distinct regions of space which form a boundary between the two groups. That's not the case though. As per my reply to Moribus:

There is a huge boundary between each system. In either case one side one or lost. How is it that ALL systems became irradiated? Which side had the nukes and bioweapons? All planets had these? Either way one side would have one. And more details would have gone into their database.

“The war was ostensibly fought between the people of the homeworld and the colonies, but in truth there were divisions even among individual city-states.”

So the two groups weren't even separated by city-state boundaries, let alone planetary or interstellar boundaries.

Yet in combat their is always someone who has the upper hand. None of the entries detail this nor how is it possible no side was able to write about it.

Although it didn't have to be that way for the reasons above, this might still have happened. L20 certainly suggests that possibility:

"As is always the case with research of this nature, finding answers tends to raise further questions. I’ve found references to another form of communication in this data packet, but not one used by the Guardians, or not all of them, at least. As far as I can tell it references some kind of foe or adversary. Combined with the devastation seen at a number of sites, it indicates the Guardians may not have been the cause of their own demise."

Why would the AIs have betrayed those who were fighting and dying in support of them? Apart from the independence issue, the AIs were full parts of Guardian society.

Why not? If the logical reason stands that you'd want to annihilate that which that which is trying to impose it's will on you, yet your ally will not let you, and might turn against you If you did it anyways... Why not?

A. You don't know that. The Thargoids could very well be capable of doing that should they want to.

They can't. They cant wipe themselves out. They can't find their own kind.

B. You don't know how much 'everywhere' entails in this scenario. Was it the entirety of Guardian civilisation at its peak, or was it the last remnants who were already dying after the 2nd civil war?

Sounds to me like they were amongst the second civil war when they died out.

Why would they have these if the war was taking place within city-states?

Because it would only make sense to provide aid to your same minded folk. Wouldn't want reinforcements to get into the planet. Again the whole even tide on one planet makes zero sense. That's not how war works.

Bit of an assumption about what the AIs can do and how the act there.

Sentient... AI just by the books NON sentient algorithm are pretty smart. To me sentient means can think and do on its own free will. Now add the capability to process things faster than any human and remember every detail of everything. There is a reason Ellon Musk believes it's a deamon getaway.

The only reason? So, sound military strategy by the third party wouldn't constitute a sensible and more plausible reason? - (Why would a third party attack and risk uniting two strong warring forces when they could just sit back, wait for the two forces to largely wipe each other out, and then move in and clear up the mess with pretty much zero risk to themselves?)

Reason is not just it. Capability is also not there. If there was a race that was that widespread and advanced we'd seen remnants all over the galaxy just like anyone running into a human bubble would see it.

In your scenario, yes.

On a meta tack, we already have an AI gone wrong story. That's human AI. It's a bit of a hackneyed sci-fi trope, and personally I don't think FD would do it twice. The Guardian story seems to be almost the inverse - AI going right and parts of the society that created them going wrong. (Still slightly hackneyed in-fairness but a lot less so than the AI gone wrong version.)

Meta I think the AI went rogue and regrets it. Or the AI being multiple AIs and having different views. But that's just being hopeful of IT being a different trope. But most likely it's the same. Because the backstory has already been written in Braben's mind before a lot of rogue AI tropes.


Sorry posting from phone. Check through qoutes for replies.

 

[Louis Calvert]

We don't really have any evidence at all of the Guardians being 'wiped out', or even dying out at all.

That was really the point I was trying to make (ignoring any controversial details for now). We only have a partial story that details a war that sounded pretty bad, but it was in no-way the end of the story.

There doesn't seem to be any evidence of battles happening around those ruins, they look just... old. There's no craters or anything is there? Most of them appear to be on pristine areas of land, and none of them seem to show battle damage, just sort of age damage any maybe some seismic damage - is there ones with battle damage? I've only been to about two dozen or them so there might be?

"Eventually, one of the competing forces triumphed, but by that point, all the Guardians other than those who had been exiled a century earlier were dying."

There's nothing at all to suppose that this is the immediately preceding event that leads to the ruins we found being abandoned. There might be another 10,000 years of history before they were abandoned - they might not have even exited during the war at all, been built later. The data is clearly shared between them in some way.

Basically - I don't believe that a single war can eradicate an entire advanced interplanetary society very easily, or at all, and that's not what we're being told. The story we have now is only the first part. I personally think they probably went post-physical at some later stage, the ruins we find have Caskets and grave goods just lying around on the surface, like they were just left there - no-one left to take care of them - the last generation. Obviously that's just speculation though.

Then consider:

"Melville thinks there could be hundreds of sites out there. His hypothesis is that the Guardians occupied an area of space similar in size to that currently inhabited by humans, but that for some reason they were forced to migrate. He believes he can find that region of space and the Guardians’ point of origin."

I mean - this sounds exactly like what you'd expect. The Guardians start off like us, expand, occupy a Bubble, then the war kills most of them. "Forced to migrate" is presumably the Exiles, or survivors of the war, whatever. But either way, the story isn't over - if Melville managed to predict a migration based on what he found, then it seems that at least that part of Ram Tah's data is accurate.

 

[Yure]

Oh I don't believe they were TOTALLY wiped out. You still have the Exiles. Also since I'm familiar with the amount of task it takes to find one guy in the dessert, I highly doubt everyone was wiped off even by an AI betrayal. Well there in theory there wouldn't be much since the Guardians preferred bioweapons. So viruses, radiation etc. But for this to proliferate throughout the galaxy IN EVERY guardian ruins is very unlikely unless they had an enemy within their gates at EVERY guardian ruin with the power to control all weapon and self-defense system. But could some survive... highly likely.

Why would they stay hiding? When you've seen an enemy that grows more powerful the more powerful you get, you'd probably try to go back to the stoneage to keep technology signature as low as possible.

Another aspect to realize is that we've only picked up ruins signals from landable non-living planets..... WHERE are the ruin signals from ELWs. These things lived in planets very like ours. Regardless of whether one side of their faction still exists, or whether they were wiped out... Where is there ELWs with signals still transmitting. Even Earth had animals kicking around 51 millions of years ago. There is ZERO reason why we haven't picked something up if they were truly wiped out.

The thing is about them leaving and abandoning stuff without mentioning anything is highly unlikely. Their is literally no mention of any reason why they abandoned their posts if they did abandon them. The monolith network includes faster than light communication. If there was an attack somewhere there would have been coms about it. It's a giant database that recorded even their tribal history, anything new would have also been recorded. They didn't just retreat and build. If they retreated and built there would be more evidence of why they were rebuilding. Now they either got wiped or some retreated as they were getting wiped. But there was no further living in the ruins. Every ruin is in the same state even those splayed out across the galaxy.

I originally believed that these Urns, relics, and etc contained data left by the guardians to one day another race be able to clone and rebirth their race. Now I'm not so sure. Urns would give DNA sample possible, with the other stuff giving all the necessary information to bring them back to life.


"

Basically - I don't believe that a single war can eradicate an entire advanced interplanetary society very easily, or at all, and that's not what we're being told. ​

"

Oh... I am totally with you. There is no way this happened. The only way that is possible is if something with ridiculous amount of calculation and coordination power knew of every Guardian location. I know it wasn't the Thargoids that wiped them out as the Klaxians can't even wipe out the Oresrians and we do alright against those guys.

Melville was an idiot that came unhinged after 6 months... He couldn't keep his own crew in line after 6 months. After a year of staring at glyphs, I am too though. I do think he was on to something with the key, but I think the key was the glyph in relic. But we don't have enough people trying to find out what it means. They are just happily waiting for FDEV to push us along.



One question you should start asking is who the HELL funded The Cete.

 

[Vasious]

None of that is really inevitable based on the description of the society, which goes back to my original point, a radical shake up of their culture which we have never had, or the data we have is incorrect/incomplete/Ram is lying.

I wonder if we can see the analogy in the internet.

Guardian Society was all about the responsibilities of the individual to the group.
This was instilled from Childhood, with the state creches, and lots of societal pressure.

This would be quite to put to shame different thinking.

But when you add a civilization wide networks that individuals could join via implants, creating a collective consensus.

Suddenly (relatively speaking) we have a way for all those who had radical idea, to connect with one another, realize they are no the only one thinking that and resist the traditions and shame the dominate society, especially if the Conservative and reactionary elements avoided connections

The harsher the oppression, the more radical the response.

Look at how the Internet connect our society and how people oce isolated find like minded kin, and how controlling what people can be exposed to is a means of control.

I imagine with Guardian society as it is described, it would be turned up to 11

 

[CMDR_Goldor]

The Exiles Rule Them All

<tinfoilHat>
The Guardian Exiles (Bio/AI hybrid or Disembodied AI...whichever still survives) are the power spoken of by Salome and Rebecca. They hide in the permit locked systems and are protected (guarded?) by all three superpowers and the Pilot's Federation. The Guardians are not researched or investigated by the superpowers because they are already known.

The Guardians influence all three super powers towards war with the Thargoids and parcel out technology to encourage the war's progression. The surviving Guardians lack the strength to finish off their hybrid insect/AI/bio-mechanical progeny and have enlisted the help of their other offspring...humanity. (Perhaps infected or subjugated are better terms than enlisted.) The AI may already see the Bio's as a long-term existential threat. If so, then having the Bio Kids wipe each other out could be an ideal solution.
</tinfoilHat>

We're a long way from understanding the Guardian's motivation. But to solve a puzzle, you bring the pieces out and shuffle them about to see what fits.

This is just my .02 after reading through this thread over the last two days. Hats off to you ladies and gents...some remarkably serious investigation going on here.

Giving up the quest for trade elite and signing on with Cannon instead! [cool]

 

[CMDR Dreamstate]

The religious group didn’t want to destroy the AI. They just didn’t want the AIs to achieve independence from the monolith network. The AI were trying to achieve independence, the religious group didn’t want them to and turned to violent means to prevent it. The other Guardians fought against the religious group in support of the AI.

Apart from the independence issue, AIs were well integrated into Guardian society right from their very first existence due to the nature of Guardian society.

It puts a very different perspective on the situation.

It’s worth remembering as well that the religious group didn’t kill the implanted Guardians, they exiled them.

Just a quick note: the first civil war was between the religious faction and the faction who wanted closer integration with the sentient AI (both sides would've killed each other during this) - I think (without looking right now at the data entries) the Guardian AI faction lost the civil war on the homeworld, hence after terms of surrender (I logically assume at least) would have been exile, as a term of that surrender - presumably to prevent higher losses of life on both sides - though the religious faction probably also did this as a means to continue their stranglehold on the homeworld and prepare for a much larger second war later on (the second civil war that was intergalactic).

 

[CMDR Dreamstate]

Oh I don't believe they were TOTALLY wiped out. You still have the Exiles. Also since I'm familiar with the amount of task it takes to find one guy in the dessert, I highly doubt everyone was wiped off even by an AI betrayal. Well there in theory there wouldn't be much since the Guardians preferred bioweapons. So viruses, radiation etc. But for this to proliferate throughout the galaxy IN EVERY guardian ruins is very unlikely unless they had an enemy within their gates at EVERY guardian ruin with the power to control all weapon and self-defense system. But could some survive... highly likely.

Why would they stay hiding? When you've seen an enemy that grows more powerful the more powerful you get, you'd probably try to go back to the stoneage to keep technology signature as low as possible.

Another aspect to realize is that we've only picked up ruins signals from landable non-living planets..... WHERE are the ruin signals from ELWs. These things lived in planets very like ours. Regardless of whether one side of their faction still exists, or whether they were wiped out... Where is there ELWs with signals still transmitting. Even Earth had animals kicking around 51 millions of years ago. There is ZERO reason why we haven't picked something up if they were truly wiped out.

The thing is about them leaving and abandoning stuff without mentioning anything is highly unlikely. Their is literally no mention of any reason why they abandoned their posts if they did abandon them. The monolith network includes faster than light communication. If there was an attack somewhere there would have been coms about it. It's a giant database that recorded even their tribal history, anything new would have also been recorded. They didn't just retreat and build. If they retreated and built there would be more evidence of why they were rebuilding. Now they either got wiped or some retreated as they were getting wiped. But there was no further living in the ruins. Every ruin is in the same state even those splayed out across the galaxy.

I originally believed that these Urns, relics, and etc contained data left by the guardians to one day another race be able to clone and rebirth their race. Now I'm not so sure. Urns would give DNA sample possible, with the other stuff giving all the necessary information to bring them back to life.


"

Basically - I don't believe that a single war can eradicate an entire advanced interplanetary society very easily, or at all, and that's not what we're being told. ​

"

Oh... I am totally with you. There is no way this happened. The only way that is possible is if something with ridiculous amount of calculation and coordination power knew of every Guardian location. I know it wasn't the Thargoids that wiped them out as the Klaxians can't even wipe out the Oresrians and we do alright against those guys.

Melville was an idiot that came unhinged after 6 months... He couldn't keep his own crew in line after 6 months. After a year of staring at glyphs, I am too though. I do think he was on to something with the key, but I think the key was the glyph in relic. But we don't have enough people trying to find out what it means. They are just happily waiting for FDEV to push us along.



One question you should start asking is who the HELL funded The Cete.

Take a gander at my research notes bud:

https://forums.frontier.co.uk/showt...he-Guardians?p=5871123&viewfull=1#post5871123

I've been trying for a while to work it out, still no luck though. Honestly, until the Beyond updates hit in Q2/Q3 next year (content updates), I don't think there is anything to do at the Ancient Ruins.

However, that isn't to say the ground work has not been ready-laid by the Frontier guys...

So far, amongst all the Ancient Ruin sites, there are only 3 systems with 3 planets that ONLY have these configurations:

1) Beta, Beta, Beta

2) Gamma, Gamma, Gamma

3) Alpha, Alpha, Alpha

I'm pretty sure some sort of "Key" exists from those patterns, as out of the now 200+ sites we have found, only 3 worlds in 3 systems have these unique sites - everything else is random or off on another planet (one or two systems have 3x beta's in them, but they are seperated on another planet in that system - hence, I did not count them).

2 of these systems were, shockingly, given to us by Frontier: one was the message from one of the crew aboard the nutty professors ship (Melville), and the other was a site given to us by Ram Tah - the third site and system (can't remember which of those it is, Beta etc), was found by the players.

One thing I need to do is go to the Alpha and Beta sites of those systems+planets and check out the Relic Towers at each site, so I can do a comparison between those Relic Towers and that of the ones I located and experimented with at the Gamma, Gamma, Gamma planet.

Would be interested if, just like at the gamma site, that the Beta and Alpha site had relic towers that also formed a "Relic Triangle".

Perhaps it has something to do with triangulation or pi circles or something for locating something we haven't seen yet, but I don't know.

 

[ExoForce]

Random motivation picture:

 

[Louis Calvert]

Take a gander at my research notes bud:

https://forums.frontier.co.uk/showt...he-Guardians?p=5871123&viewfull=1#post5871123

I've been trying for a while to work it out, still no luck though. Honestly, until the Beyond updates hit in Q2/Q3 next year (content updates), I don't think there is anything to do at the Ancient Ruins.

However, that isn't to say the ground work has not been ready-laid by the Frontier guys...

So far, amongst all the Ancient Ruin sites, there are only 3 systems with 3 planets that ONLY have these configurations:

1) Beta, Beta, Beta

2) Gamma, Gamma, Gamma

3) Alpha, Alpha, Alpha

I'm pretty sure some sort of "Key" exists from those patterns, as out of the now 200+ sites we have found, only 3 worlds in 3 systems have these unique sites - everything else is random or off on another planet (one or two systems have 3x beta's in them, but they are seperated on another planet in that system - hence, I did not count them).

2 of these systems were, shockingly, given to us by Frontier: one was the message from one of the crew aboard the nutty professors ship (Melville), and the other was a site given to us by Ram Tah - the third site and system (can't remember which of those it is, Beta etc), was found by the players.

One thing I need to do is go to the Alpha and Beta sites of those systems+planets and check out the Relic Towers at each site, so I can do a comparison between those Relic Towers and that of the ones I located and experimented with at the Gamma, Gamma, Gamma planet.

Would be interested if, just like at the gamma site, that the Beta and Alpha site had relic towers that also formed a "Relic Triangle".

Perhaps it has something to do with triangulation or pi circles or something for locating something we haven't seen yet, but I don't know.

I don't really understand what "Alpha" "Gamma" and "Beta" sites mean, other than it classifying the layout, but I would say if there's something to be found currently that you're right, since Melville thinks those triple areas are important too (i.e. that's a clue from Fdev):

"We discovered a cluster of sites only a few days ago before finding a location with an entirely unique layout. So far we’ve found three sites in each of the following systems: Synuefe LY-I b42-2, Synuefe NL-N c23-4 and Synuefe TP-F b44-0. There are basically three different types of site, most of which have a different codex layout. Melville thinks that each type of site fulfilled a different function."

The name "The Cete" is really interesting (again, remember Fdev doesn't name stuff randomly, it's all significant), it's derived from the Greek for "sea monster" or "huge fish", and Cetaceans include whales, which makes sense since Herman Melville wrote Moby - so there's clearly a link being drawn between our Dr Melville and the literary novel Moby , so, if we assume it's not just a joke about naming, what are Fdev telling us with this reference? (note: It may well be a joke or just been done for fun, but let's assume it's not for now and see where we end up).

Other than the obvious plot and parallels to the fate of the Cete in ED, this novel is often considered to contain a lot more than the story itself, it's full of odd things. Have a look through the wiki page: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Moby-

While I was reading through this, nothing really jumped out at me as being significant except this:

"Nine meetings with other ships
A significant structural device is the series of nine meetings (gams) between the Pequod and other ships. These meetings are important in three ways. First, their placement in the narrative. The initial two meetings and the last two are both close to each other. The central group of five gams are separated by about 12 chapters, more or less. This pattern provides a structural element, remarks Bezanson, as if the encounters were "bones to the book's flesh". Second, Ahab's developing responses to the meetings plot the "rising curve of his passion" and of his monomania. Third, in contrast to Ahab, Ishmael interprets the significance of each ship individually: "each ship is a scroll which the narrator unrolls and reads."

CMDR Dreamstate has pointed out that we have nine sites that don't fit the pattern (three groups of three), and that (our) Melville singled those out of being important. It may be reaching, but finding numerical significance in Nine meetings with ships in the novel that's obliquely referenced through this whole encounter and Nine Guardian ruins that appear in such a way as to be unique could be another way to highlight these areas are important.

 

[Louis Calvert]

I've long been theorizing the infiltration of human society by the/a/multiple Guardian AI. This would have happened prior to the official discovery the ruins. And I haven't had time to look into it more but theorized that if you were to look at the human history when it comes to advancement, expansion, and technology you'd see a spike where this could be a tell tale sign of such an infiltration.

Having this detail can help me narrow it down a bit.

The recent release of EERPG has added a lot more general backstory to the ED universe, there's been quite a bit more fleshed out in the Timeline here: http://elite-dangerous.wikia.com/wiki/Elite_Dangerous_Timeline especially around the early history and expansion, formation of the superpowers (a lot more about Glacop has been filled in), early explorations, etc. For example, thanks to the EERPG we know that there were "significant" explorations in the Pleiades as early as 2800 and that's when ships started going missing (linked later to early Thargoid encounters). That means we know explorers were actively zooming around hundreds of lightyears from the bubble in "significant" numbers 4-500 years ago, and it's unlikely they only went to the Pleiades - that means the first Guardian discoveries might well have occurred pretty early on since they aren't that far away, and this was prior to the formation of the PF, which means no permit locked areas (at least not in the same way we have them!)...

You might now be able to find a bit more to support your theory about Guardian interactions with humanity now

 

[Jmanis]

I don't really understand what "Alpha" "Gamma" and "Beta" sites mean, other than it classifying the layout, but I would say if there's something to be found currently that you're right, since Melville thinks those triple areas are important too (i.e. that's a clue from Fdev):

"We discovered a cluster of sites only a few days ago before finding a location with an entirely unique layout. So far we’ve found three sites in each of the following systems: Synuefe LY-I b42-2, Synuefe NL-N c23-4 and Synuefe TP-F b44-0. There are basically three different types of site, most of which have a different codex layout. Melville thinks that each type of site fulfilled a different function."

The name "The Cete" is really interesting (again, remember Fdev doesn't name stuff randomly, it's all significant), it's derived from the Greek for "sea monster" or "huge fish", and Cetaceans include whales, which makes sense since Herman Melville wrote Moby - so there's clearly a link being drawn between our Dr Melville and the literary novel Moby , so, if we assume it's not just a joke about naming, what are Fdev telling us with this reference? (note: It may well be a joke or just been done for fun, but let's assume it's not for now and see where we end up).

Other than the obvious plot and parallels to the fate of the Cete in ED, this novel is often considered to contain a lot more than the story itself, it's full of odd things. Have a look through the wiki page: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Moby-

While I was reading through this, nothing really jumped out at me as being significant except this:

"Nine meetings with other ships
A significant structural device is the series of nine meetings (gams) between the Pequod and other ships. These meetings are important in three ways. First, their placement in the narrative. The initial two meetings and the last two are both close to each other. The central group of five gams are separated by about 12 chapters, more or less. This pattern provides a structural element, remarks Bezanson, as if the encounters were "bones to the book's flesh". Second, Ahab's developing responses to the meetings plot the "rising curve of his passion" and of his monomania. Third, in contrast to Ahab, Ishmael interprets the significance of each ship individually: "each ship is a scroll which the narrator unrolls and reads."

CMDR Dreamstate has pointed out that we have nine sites that don't fit the pattern (three groups of three), and that (our) Melville singled those out of being important. It may be reaching, but finding numerical significance in Nine meetings with ships in the novel that's obliquely referenced through this whole encounter and Nine Guardian ruins that appear in such a way as to be unique could be another way to highlight these areas are important.

Isn't the alpha beta gamma designation just what was arbitrarily designated by the forums to distinguish the site? I don't recall them ever being referred to as alpha beta or gamma in the game or on galnet

 

[Muetdhiver]

Just poping by to point out that there is a constellation tieded to cete : cetus, as in the monster in the cassiopeia / andromeda / perseus story.

Frankly, while there might be something, after the whole formidine rift pile of clues and hints leading to nowhere till FD put beacon in, I would
advise against going full bonkers on those. Stay away from the tinfoil

 

[CMDR Dreamstate]

Isn't the alpha beta gamma designation just what was arbitrarily designated by the forums to distinguish the site? I don't recall them ever being referred to as alpha beta or gamma in the game or on galnet

Yep, it's just what Canonn designated them - simple yet effective, and back last year a lot of people assumed there would be two other sites "Delta" and "Epsilon" (two different configs) because we got Alpha, Beta, Delta, Gamma, Epsilon data when scanning obelisks - but this hasn't happened (maybe it will? who knows...).

I prefer to number them 1, 2, 3 as I think a number system is more prevailant during my research - especially the 3 unique sites: 3x Alpha, 3x Beta, 3x Gamma, and the combinations of the other sites thereof that make up the rest.

 

[CMDR Dreamstate]

I don't really understand what "Alpha" "Gamma" and "Beta" sites mean, other than it classifying the layout, but I would say if there's something to be found currently that you're right, since Melville thinks those triple areas are important too (i.e. that's a clue from Fdev):

"We discovered a cluster of sites only a few days ago before finding a location with an entirely unique layout. So far we’ve found three sites in each of the following systems: Synuefe LY-I b42-2, Synuefe NL-N c23-4 and Synuefe TP-F b44-0. There are basically three different types of site, most of which have a different codex layout. Melville thinks that each type of site fulfilled a different function."

The name "The Cete" is really interesting (again, remember Fdev doesn't name stuff randomly, it's all significant), it's derived from the Greek for "sea monster" or "huge fish", and Cetaceans include whales, which makes sense since Herman Melville wrote Moby - so there's clearly a link being drawn between our Dr Melville and the literary novel Moby , so, if we assume it's not just a joke about naming, what are Fdev telling us with this reference? (note: It may well be a joke or just been done for fun, but let's assume it's not for now and see where we end up).

Other than the obvious plot and parallels to the fate of the Cete in ED, this novel is often considered to contain a lot more than the story itself, it's full of odd things. Have a look through the wiki page: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Moby-

While I was reading through this, nothing really jumped out at me as being significant except this:

"Nine meetings with other ships
A significant structural device is the series of nine meetings (gams) between the Pequod and other ships. These meetings are important in three ways. First, their placement in the narrative. The initial two meetings and the last two are both close to each other. The central group of five gams are separated by about 12 chapters, more or less. This pattern provides a structural element, remarks Bezanson, as if the encounters were "bones to the book's flesh". Second, Ahab's developing responses to the meetings plot the "rising curve of his passion" and of his monomania. Third, in contrast to Ahab, Ishmael interprets the significance of each ship individually: "each ship is a scroll which the narrator unrolls and reads."

CMDR Dreamstate has pointed out that we have nine sites that don't fit the pattern (three groups of three), and that (our) Melville singled those out of being important. It may be reaching, but finding numerical significance in Nine meetings with ships in the novel that's obliquely referenced through this whole encounter and Nine Guardian ruins that appear in such a way as to be unique could be another way to highlight these areas are important.

That's some fine detective work, mate!

I read that his wife was Elizabeth Shaw - I immediatley thought of the movie Prometheus...obviously a different Shaw

I expect there is some inspiration behind it, but probably nothing to it (probably an... easter egg?).

 

[Vasious]

The name "The Cete" is really interesting (again, remember Fdev doesn't name stuff randomly, it's all significant), it's derived from the Greek for "sea monster" or "huge fish", and Cetaceans include whales, which makes sense since Herman Melville wrote Moby - so there's clearly a link being drawn between our Dr Melville and the literary novel Moby , so, if we assume it's not just a joke about naming, what are Fdev telling us with this reference? (note: It may well be a joke or just been done for fun, but let's assume it's not for now and see where we end up).

Other than the obvious plot and parallels to the fate of the Cete in ED, this novel is often considered to contain a lot more than the story itself, it's full of odd things. Have a look through the wiki page: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Moby-

Didnt Dr Melville go all Capt Ahab?
That was the reference?

https://community.elitedangerous.com/en/galnet/uid/589db33015ac1c292f68b825

8th February 3303

This isn't a research vessel anymore – it's a prison. All means of communicating with the rest of the galaxy have been disabled. Melville has taken control of ship. His obsession has doomed us all.

I'm transmitting these records in the hope that someone finds them and comes to our rescue. But the chances of that are slim.

 

[Vasious]

The recent release of EERPG has added a lot more general backstory to the ED universe, there's been quite a bit more fleshed out in the Timeline here: http://elite-dangerous.wikia.com/wiki/Elite_Dangerous_Timeline especially around the early history and expansion, formation of the superpowers (a lot more about Glacop has been filled in), early explorations, etc. For example, thanks to the EERPG we know that there were "significant" explorations in the Pleiades as early as 2800 and that's when ships started going missing (linked later to early Thargoid encounters). That means we know explorers were actively zooming around hundreds of lightyears from the bubble in "significant" numbers 4-500 years ago, and it's unlikely they only went to the Pleiades - that means the first Guardian discoveries might well have occurred pretty early on since they aren't that far away, and this was prior to the formation of the PF, which means no permit locked areas (at least not in the same way we have them!)...

You might now be able to find a bit more to support your theory about Guardian interactions with humanity now

Interesting how that is dated Between the 2810's and 2840's; GalCop documents a significant number of ship disappearances in its space and near the Pleiades Nebula.

" In 2849, the first grainy footage surfaces of one of these "encounters", with one blurry image appearing to show an alien ship with the word "THARG" on its hull. The media immediately coins the term "Thargoid" as a name for the aliens. However, no conclusive proof of the Thargoids' existence is obtained, and they fade into folklore."

The "alien threat" due to disappearances in Zelder Ququve and Aymiay (the opposite of the bubble to the Pleiades) used by the Federation in 2867 to Reform the Navy , which was likely a Pirate then nothing until

3123 when the first reported encounters between human starship pilots and a new intelligent alien species occur.

So What was happening for those 270 odd years, and was the first ship actually a Thargoid ship I wonder...

 

[Han_Zen]

That's some fine detective work, mate!

I read that his wife was Elizabeth Shaw - I immediatley thought of the movie Prometheus...obviously a different Shaw

I expect there is some inspiration behind it, but probably nothing to it (probably an... easter egg?).

Just to add a little spice on this story.
In the Wings(1.2) trailer, Commander Ishmael is tranporting an unknown artefact.
This was the first hint of any mystery in ED and the Mobi hints were there.

Later a professor named Ishmael Palin showed up on Galnet.

Also with the naming convention used for the Thargoid ships (Cyclops, basilisk and Medusa), it would not surprice me if a Cetus arrives at som point.

We have also had the character ‘Cetus Bane’ in the game. I guess his Cobra(with Medusa paint job) is still a POI in the Algol system.

 

[Yure]

Yes the alpha beta gamma designation were used. Despite the Beta sites were the first to be found, the contents of the ruins in terms of data it was noticed that the now "Alpha" sites contained the first sets of entries, beta having middle set and gamma having last set.


Not exactly sure why they used gamma and not delta. Might be a greek thing.

 

[Vasious]

Yes the alpha beta gamma designation were used. Despite the Beta sites were the first to be found, the contents of the ruins in terms of data it was noticed that the now "Alpha" sites contained the first sets of entries, beta having middle set and gamma having last set.


Not exactly sure why they used gamma and not delta. Might be a greek thing.

Yes, a Greek thing

 

[Yure]

If any of you have old school 3D glasses laying around (the red and blue or red and cyan ones) please go to the ruins and take a look at the glyphs. Try both with 3D mode on and off. Report findings.

@Dreamstate I got some data on an excel sheet not sure how I can get it to you if you want to look at it.