Has anyone done a study of "masochism" within gaming?

[Leper Messiah]

And I mean THIS definition of masochism NOT the sexual one obviously:

• (in general use) the enjoyment of an activity that appears to be painful or tedious.
  "there's plenty to do when the weather turns moorland walks into exercises in masochism"

All in the title really. I play games for "fun" and by that I mean things that don't cause me pain (mental/emotional). But reading these forums over the years and my knowledge that games like Dark Souls exist makes me wonder what makes a gamer tick who can only "enjoy" something that gives them mental/emotional pain? I'm really struggling to get my head around it.

I understand why in the past games were hard because that was the ONLY way they could get any sort of longevity into the game. Things should be different now surely?

And please no references to "reality" as a game IS a form of ENTERTAINMENT. Life is "hard" god knows I am well aware of that with the crap I've had to endure, but I don't want that as entertainment...why do others? In the grand scheme of things any achievement in a game is completely meaningless is it not? Or is it people who have had no life challenges to endure that need a game to up the stakes in a controlled environment where the player has a certain level of control over the mental/emotional pain (unlike reality).

also what I've noticed is the "gaming masochists" are usually very dismissive of those wishing for less of a challenge, often to the point of pretty extreme insults.


Then again I also do need a certain level of "challenge" otherwise boredom can set in. I suppose to another gamer "I'll" be the masochist. But I don't disparage their level of challenge, as I'm an advocate of as many difficulty options in games as possible.

so yeah TL: DR any university or institute done a study on it?

 

[Siobhan]

I think some play just for the emotional value. Certain movies have a similar effect; Schindler's List or Graveyard of The Fireflies for example.
For others it's just a challenge to overcome.

Tbh, I see more sadists in game culture than masochists, but that's just a personal view. YMMV as it were.

 

[Stigbob]

Horses for courses, there are games like dwarf fortress for comedy disastrous failure then there are really simplistic games where nothing can ever go wrong like borderlands.

It all depends what mood you are in, for example alien isolation is either perfect or awful depends how much of a challenge you want at the time.

Same with non-gaming hobbies when I do archery at standard indoor ranges I'm seeing how tight I can get my grouping in the gold to the point here I damage my arrows Robin Hood style, at longer outdoor ranges in bad weather I'm struggling to hit the target. Both are fun in their own way.

The dismissive thing is human nature, everyone believes thier preferences are superior.

 

[Vasea Azure]

I`v played every PC Dark Souls game for more than 300h each and the enjoyment comes from achieving the victory. It's like climbing a mountain in hazardous environment - its painful, dangerous but after you reach the top the feeling is great.
My biggest achievement in my gaming history is beating infamous Ornstein and Smaug boss fight. Its known to be the most challenging boss fight new Dark Souls player has to beat. It took me one week of literal struggle and frustration to finally beat them and I literally jumped up from my chair yelling like a mental person with happiness (it caused big disturbance in my household). I`v played many games but non of them gave me such a victory feeling.

 

[starman]

Repeated trips to Hutton Orbital

 

[Ian Skippy]

"Why do people eat spicy food, do they like pain? Are they masochists?"

No. What you think is painful/frustrating/difficult/whatever is simply not so to others. What to you is 'just spicy/difficult/exciting enough' is boring to others. And yes, plenty of studies have been done. Conclusion, in short, is that people are different from each other.

 

[Arry]

It is always by way of pain one arrives at pleasure. Said some French nutter from the mid 1700s.

It is a psychological fact; that the harder we have to strive, or suffer to achieve our goals. The greater the pleasure we feel at our moment of triumph.

 

[Leper Messiah]

I`v played every PC Dark Souls game for more than 300h each and the enjoyment comes from achieving the victory. It's like climbing a mountain in hazardous environment - its painful, dangerous but after you reach the top the feeling is great.
My biggest achievement in my gaming history is beating infamous Ornstein and Smaug boss fight. Its known to be the most challenging boss fight new Dark Souls player has to beat. It took me one week of literal struggle and frustration to finally beat them and I literally jumped up from my chair yelling like a mental person with happiness (it caused big disturbance in my household). I`v played many games but non of them gave me such a victory feeling.

But are you actually "achieving" anything meaningful in a medium of entertainment though?

It is always by way of pain one arrives at pleasure. Said some French nutter from the mid 1700s.

It is a psychological fact; that the harder we have to strive, or suffer to achieve our goals. The greater the pleasure we feel at our moment of triumph.

Fair enough, but in a form of "entertainment"? That's the critical thing I think I'm finding hard to understand, it goes beyond my own desire for a personal (mild) challenge.

 

[Leper Messiah]

I think some play just for the emotional value. Certain movies have a similar effect; Schindler's List or Graveyard of The Fireflies for example.
For others it's just a challenge to overcome.

Tbh, I see more sadists in game culture than masochists, but that's just a personal view. YMMV as it were.

Good points, but I still don't quite understand why in a form of entertainment people seek out such challenges.


I agree to a certain degree regarding sadists but that's only in MP games though.

 

[Arry]

But are you actually "achieving" anything meaningful in a medium of entertainment though?



Fair enough, but in a form of "entertainment"? That's the critical thing I think I'm finding hard to understand, it goes beyond my own desire for a personal (mild) challenge.

Yet most game formats are the same.

Level up games; how many times do you repeat the same part of a level again and again before you succeed to the next bit?

Lemmings for example: How many times can you fail, before success?

They are mostly based on failing before success.

 

[shadragon]

This will get you started.

http://www.apa.org/action/careers/improve-lives/tim-nichols.aspx

https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2017/02/170227125204.htm

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/men/thinking-man/is-video-gaming-bad-for-you-the-science-for-and-against/

 

[Leper Messiah]

Yet most game formats are the same.

Level up games; how many times do you repeat the same part of a level again and again before you succeed to the next bit?

Lemmings for example: How many times can you fail, before success?

They are mostly based on failing before success.

Yeah not a big fan of "repeat until you learn how to defeat" sort of thing. I hate boss fights with a passion. I prefer games that give me a gameworld, an objective then let's me accomplish it how I want. Not a huge fan of restrictive linear gameplay.

 

[Leper Messiah]

This will get you started.

http://www.apa.org/action/careers/improve-lives/tim-nichols.aspx

https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2017/02/170227125204.htm

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/men/thinking-man/is-video-gaming-bad-for-you-the-science-for-and-against/

cheers for the links.

 

[Lucius-Darcia]

It's me:
Flying in a Type-9 in open to a CG. This is masochism! I like it!

Another example:
Fighting the Aisling Community which hide in private in BGS. That's also masochism and i still like it

 

[Vasea Azure]

But are you actually "achieving" anything meaningful in a medium of entertainment though?

I had fun buy beating part of the game most gamers consider unbeatable. Its all about fun at the end. Its very simple - its a challenging game and the rewarding feeling at the end is great.

 

[Ian Skippy]

But are you actually "achieving" anything meaningful in a medium of entertainment though?

https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/achieve

Yes. That is what the word means. You set out to do something, and then you do it.

Fair enough, but in a form of "entertainment"? That's the critical thing I think I'm finding hard to understand, it goes beyond my own desire for a personal (mild) challenge.

People are different than you are. It should not be hard to understand. You like NMS. Others think it is boring. You dont like boss fights. Others do.

 

[Ian Skippy]

I had fun buy beating part of the game most gamers consider unbeatable. Its all about fun at the end. Its very simple - its a challenging game and the rewarding feeling at the end is great.

But why was it fun? Because you liked the challenge. But why did you like the challenge? Because it is fun.

This discussion is a bit like asking why people like 'blue', or spicy food, or chopin, or well, anything really. The correct scientific answer is 'because they do'. And why? 'Because'. And why do people have different preferences? Because people, unlike grains of sand, simply differ from each other a bit more. Maybe not a very fulfilling answer, but it is the correct one.

 

[znôrt]

masochists gonna masoch ... in a game and anywhere else in their lives.

no, i don't know about any particular study of that on gaming, but i'm curious about what you deem symptoms of it. say if someone is trying to git gud in combat, or a stubborn merchant insist on delivering in open, even if they are 'abused' once and again that isn't masochism for me, it's sacrifice or enduring hardship for a greater good (learning, achieving a goal, getting away with it ...). it's only masochism if you *enjoy* being abused, not if you tolerate it for specific reasons.

i think you could find plenty more examples of (apparently) masochistic behavior on the forum rather than in game.

 

[Darkfyre99]

Good points, but I still don't quite understand why in a form of entertainment people seek out such challenges.


I agree to a certain degree regarding sadists but that's only in MP games though.

Because I prefer my life to be easy, and my games to be hard, not the other way around.

In all seriousness, I play games for the stories they generate, to experience alternate realities, and to solve problems that will never come up in real life. Games where success is guaranteed don't generate interesting stories. I get far more pleasure out of overcoming a challenge, especially if it requires outside the box thinking, than I do from getting the gaming equivalent of an "I Participated" trophy.

Everyone is different. Some people enjoy Dwarf Fortress. Some would rather play the Sims. Some fall between those two extremes.

 

[Cliché]

so yeah TL: DR any university or institute done a study on it?

You can bet that somewhere at sometime, a government wasted a load grant money on a study about this. [yesnod]
I'm neither aware of it/them nor the results.

For myself, I think I only have masochistic tendencies about my relationship with FD over the development of ED (painful). [knocked out]

But for tedious - one man's tedious may be another's zen. Some people find trading, mining, and exploration boring, but I love it. I also like Euro/American Truck Simulator - I've got white-line-fever.