Ships Has anyone ever ranked ships based on their FA off maneuvrability?

[wolfhelius]

The better I get at FA-off combat maneuvers, the less I fly smaller ships. Why would I when I can stay on target and destroy smaller ships much faster flying with FA off with a Python or Anaconda?

I am now left wondering: has anyone ever compared vertical/lateral thruster acceleration and braking speed for all ships?

Now that I almost exclusively fight with FA off, I would like to get an idea of what ships are best at thruster control, changing directions, stopping on a dime, accelerating sideways or up/down or backwards...

Thanks!

 

[Madrax573]

The better I get at FA-off combat maneuvers, the less I fly smaller ships. Why would I when I can stay on target and destroy smaller ships much faster flying with FA off with a Python or Anaconda?

I am now left wondering: has anyone ever compared vertical/lateral thruster acceleration and braking speed for all ships?

Now that I almost exclusively fight with FA off, I would like to get an idea of what ships are best at thruster control, changing directions, stopping on a dime, accelerating sideways or up/down or backwards...

Thanks!

Our group did some measuring a couple of years ago around ship performance and recorded it here

Elite:Dangerous Ship Agility

docs.google.com

It's not specifically for FA-off but does list the various thruster performances for each ship at the time (The Mamba was in beta 2 iirc.) I've half a mind to revisit this dataset and make sure it's still correct etc and maybe come up with some FA-off comparisons.
FYI: Fwd and rev thrust have separate rating but laterals and verts are the same from our findings.

In regards to FA-on v FA-off I find that the raw accelerations are the same in a single vector but the top speeds are reduced in FA-on. Lat/Vert speed is 80% of max speed and rev is 60% of max speed. With FA-off you can reach max speed in any vector.

Hope this helps.

 

[Deleted member 121570]

The better I get at FA-off combat maneuvers, the less I fly smaller ships. Why would I when I can stay on target and destroy smaller ships much faster flying with FA off with a Python or Anaconda?

I am now left wondering: has anyone ever compared vertical/lateral thruster acceleration and braking speed for all ships?

Now that I almost exclusively fight with FA off, I would like to get an idea of what ships are best at thruster control, changing directions, stopping on a dime, accelerating sideways or up/down or backwards...

Thanks!

Alongside the test sheet, and outside of your combat usage; you'll find that small ships are in general significantly more agile, faster and are often therefore more fun to fly than medium/larges.

Braking speed in particular is often confused FAon / FAoff, due to straight line single thruster comparisons which don't hold when bi/trichording to brake.
Or boosting to brake ..

 

[wolfhelius]

Our group did some measuring a couple of years ago around ship performance and recorded it here

Elite:Dangerous Ship Agility

docs.google.com

It's not specifically for FA-off but does list the various thruster performances for each ship at the time (The Mamba was in beta 2 iirc.) I've half a mind to revisit this dataset and make sure it's still correct etc and maybe come up with some FA-off comparisons.
FYI: Fwd and rev thrust have separate rating but laterals and verts are the same from our findings.

In regards to FA-on v FA-off I find that the raw accelerations are the same in a single vector but the top speeds are reduced in FA-on. Lat/Vert speed is 80% of max speed and rev is 60% of max speed. With FA-off you can reach max speed in any vector.

Hope this helps.

This is great thank you. I'm also trying to figure out thruster braking power like in this sheet: https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet...XqiDh2Bspf64faGPk41nt5YekYnC9Pj025lX4/pubhtml but for bigger ships.

 

[Madrax573]

This is great thank you. I'm also trying to figure out thruster braking power like in this sheet: https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet...XqiDh2Bspf64faGPk41nt5YekYnC9Pj025lX4/pubhtml but for bigger ships.

Well the thruster braking power is the same as the acceleration just in the opposite vector...

 

[Hooplah]

The coriolis.io has an agility column which compares the maneuverability of the ships in the game with
the Type-10 Defender being the lowest and the Eagle the highest. Very useful when building ships.

 

[Madrax573]

The coriolis.io has an agility column which compares the maneuverability of the ships in the game with
the Type-10 Defender being the lowest and the Eagle the highest. Very useful when building ships.

The maneuverability stats is abut as much use a a lead parachute tbh in giving any form of idea how a ship performs in game....

Viper 4 for example will pretty much outfly any ship in the game yet it's a slug in that stat.

 

[Hooplah]

The maneuverability stats is abut as much use a a lead parachute tbh in giving any form of idea how a ship performs in game....

Viper 4 for example will pretty much outfly any ship in the game yet it's a slug in that stat.

Ah, but that is your opinion flying a Viper Mk IV with your experience in the game. Many other players with many other ships and experience seeing your post might disagree with your opinion. All Coriolis does is provide maneuverability comparisons with all the ships. If you don't like it then don't use it. Let others enjoy the stats versus flying them.

Regards

 

[Madrax573]

Ah, but that is your opinion flying a Viper Mk IV with your experience in the game. Many other players with many other ships and experience seeing your post might disagree with your opinion. All Coriolis does is provide maneuverability comparisons with all the ships. If you don't like it then don't use it. Let others enjoy the stats versus flying them.

Regards

It's not my opinion it's a proven fact - not by me as I fly fast slow ships usually...

Coriolis shows the 'agility' stat, the rotational speeds and top speed capable of the ship. While these are interesting it does NOT reflect how the ship performs at all in game.
That was one of the main reasons why we did flight tests with all the ships at the time and recorded the actual performance to see what each of the thruster profile were like and also measured the boost modifiers for each as well.
The V4 for example isn't that impressive stat wise but when you apply the boost modifier and profile it becomes a total beast.
Courier is fast and fairly agile non boosted but it really loses out on the boost profile which hampers it to pull the really tight turns etc.

NONE of which is shown or even indicated by Coriolis. I like Coriolis and use it loads as a ship builder app but it DOES NOT reflect the performance of ships in game and to tell newer players that is does is simply misinformation.

 

[Hooplah]

Of course not. Coriolis is a stock measure not an engineered version. It helps players to decide what ship they want to build next. I don't see you supporting them. You are all into maneuverability? Put some rails on an Eagle. I know pilots who would blow your Viper Mk IV away before you could menu logout in 15 seconds. Go figure. ED is not about how you play but how you play with others.

 

[Madrax573]

Of course not. Coriolis is a stock measure not an engineered version. It helps players to decide what ship they want to build next. I don't see you supporting them. You are all into maneuverability? Put some rails on an Eagle. I know pilots who would blow your Viper Mk IV away before you could menu logout in 15 seconds. Go figure. ED is not about how you play but how you play with others.

What has this got to do with anything in this thread?

OP ask if anyone had done any measurements, to which I give him the work we carried out. You then decided that Coriolis was the text book to look at and I simply pointed out your errors in assumption. But feel free direct those ace eagle pilots to my Viper IV.. gives me something to do I guess ... Playing with others... good example you are setting.

 

[Northpin]

In regards to FA-on v FA-off I find that the raw accelerations are the same in a single vector but the top speeds are reduced in FA-on. Lat/Vert speed is 80% of max speed and rev is 60% of max speed. With FA-off you can reach max speed in any vector.

Correct.
But FA On offers better brakes. Sure this is less important when one can perma boost and use it as the main vector change

 

[Madrax573]

Correct.
But FA On offers better brakes. Sure this is less important when one can perma boost and use it as the main vector change

TBF FA-on only gives better braking in a single vector brake, it seems to act like a multi vector brake even when it's just a single vector. Once you get used to bi-tri cord ing your thrusters you can brake just as quick (if not quicker) when FA-off... some pilots can take an eagle from 700m/s to dead stop in about 50m.... that ain't happening with FA-on in any fashion.

 

[Madrax573]

Just for clarity while I run a FA-off dedicated group and will always advocate for FA-off I'm not going to tell anyone it 'better' than FA-on. You fly how you like and what you like and have fun doing so. But there is so much misinformation out there I just like making sure the correct info is out there as well

 

[Hooplah]

What has this got to do with anything in this thread?...

An option using Coriolis values to see the maneuvering relationships with all the ships in simple terms. But maybe you don't like simple terms looking for other numbers while others might appreciate my suggestion to help them out. If you cannot discuss all options open to all players that is your problem so deal with it.

 

[Madrax573]

An option using Coriolis values to see the maneuvering relationships with all the ships in simple terms. But maybe you don't like simple terms looking for other numbers while others might appreciate my suggestion to help them out. If you cannot discuss all options open to all players that is your problem so deal with it.

Except that it doesn't give any actual information about what the OP asked for... but that's ok... you keep looking at the wrong info and make incorrect conclusions....

 

[Eeekster]

Interesting! Slightly linked - what ship(s) would anyone recommended for learning to FA-off? Not played anything similar since Jumpgate days.. which is a rather long time ago.

 

[Slange Lands]

Interesting! Slightly linked - what ship(s) would anyone recommended for learning to FA-off? Not played anything similar since Jumpgate days.. which is a rather long time ago.

The FDL. It is overpowered in defense and offense and a joy to fly with incredible maneuverability in FA off. And once you get bored with NPCS, you can try PvP. The FDL has to be flown very consciously, as it has a tendency to stall. Yet it can be flown to success in most NPC situations. There are even AX FDL builds out there. The weapon convergence is ideal and there are a lot of excellent weapon combinations available including fixed and gimballed multicannons. The class 3 multicannon has a long spin up time, so not having a class 3 hardpoint for me is always a plus. Pacifiers and frags are great in class three but you have to get close and are therefore avoidable by pilots with range control. PAs are ideal, but not easy to learn. At least in my case it took almost a year to get comfortable with PAs.

If you do not have a lot of credits for rebuy, then a VIper 3. However, due to it's size it is more fragile than the fdl. The fights with NPCs would also be longer.

If I were beginning and had no credits, I would use a viper 3 and orbit asteroids and do speed runs through the tunnels of various installations (CQC artefacts). No engineering required although engineered shields would be very helpful.

I also experimented with the very large ships when I learned FAoff. You might try that, too because some of the rotationals will be far less twitchy feeling. For example the Cutter.

Fa off is magnificent.

o7

 

[Eeekster]

The FDL. It is overpowered in defense and offense and a joy to fly with incredible maneuverability in FA off. And once you get bored with NPCS, you can try PvP. The FDL has to be flown very consciously, as it has a tendency to stall. Yet it can be flown to success in most NPC situations. There are even AX FDL builds out there. The weapon convergence is ideal and there are a lot of excellent weapon combinations available including fixed and gimballed multicannons. The class 3 multicannon has a long spin up time, so not having a class 3 hardpoint for me is always a plus. Pacifiers and frags are great in class three but you have to get close and are therefore avoidable by pilots with range control. PAs are ideal, but not easy to learn. At least in my case it took almost a year to get comfortable with PAs.

If you do not have a lot of credits for rebuy, then a VIper 3. However, due to it's size it is more fragile than the fdl. The fights with NPCs would also be longer.

If I were beginning and had no credits, I would use a viper 3 and orbit asteroids and do speed runs through the tunnels of various installations (CQC artefacts). No engineering required although engineered shields would be very helpful.

I also experimented with the very large ships when I learned FAoff. You might try that, too because some of the rotationals will be far less twitchy feeling. For example the Cutter.

Fa off is magnificent.

o7

Thanks, sounds like the viper 3 is the 'disposable' way to get started - I shall look forward (or is that backwards/sideways..) to ramming some asteroids

Cheers

 

[Madrax573]

Interesting! Slightly linked - what ship(s) would anyone recommended for learning to FA-off? Not played anything similar since Jumpgate days.. which is a rather long time ago.

Honestly one of the best ships to learn the basics of Fa-off is the stock sidey.... responsive enough to get used to the controls but without the crazy twitchiness of highly engineered 'fast' ships