Hatch Breakers - The Bad, The Bad, The Impotent

As far as i'm aware there is a hard limit on valuable goods, i don't think i've ever seen above 30t of gold or pcells no matter where i've looked, its not related to ship type either T9's still only carry tiny amounts I just found one with 10. I've done boom, bust, warzone, every security type, I've never seen any correlation between what NPC's carry and the systems its entirely random which means its entirely bad :p

I have a stupid amount of screenshots of NPCs with multiple hundreds of cargo - the hard limit is their cargo hold.

Examples:

[1]

[2]

[3]
 
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Do you mind PM'ing me the sort of systems to find these in (or just post them)? I do genuinely go out and look fairly often and I have seen hundreds of cargo, I've just never seen hundreds of cargo of anything valuable I just saw 400 rutile for example *rolls eyes* I mean the 400 science research one is the same as a rutile barge but the samples and imperial slaves would actually be viable targets for the first time ever :p

For myself If i wanted to get a good haul, I had to go find players shipping gold/palladium/slaves as they were the only ones that actually carry enough to be worth it.

I mean if your right I might finally believe PvE piracy is viable as I was just doing some tests to see if they had made it so yet lol :)
 
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I have a stupid amount of screenshots of NPCs with multiple hundreds of cargo - the hard limit is their cargo hold.

do you have any indication which kind of system/ wealth, security level/ economic state spawns those? thanks for mentioning it isn't boom.
 
Try any system that has no single booming faction. Other states may also reduce the amount, however, I'm not sure in what way. Choose a system with no states just to be sure. Boom only spawns additional trading ships with escort in supercruise (but their cargo amount is currently bugged); ships that spawn at stations aren't affected.

Try Refinery or Extraction systems (that aren't part industrial/agricultural/high tech). Valuable cargo can be found in most economies though. There may be wanted trading ships there, which likely carry rares or other illegal goods.

Anarchies have their cargo mostly replaced with illegal goods, unless they're booming. In addition, you may attack whatever ship you please at an anarchy station, as long as that ship isn't part of the ruling faction - the station doesn't care.
 
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Hmmmm thats alot of good info thanks Muffindrake, i'll go give it another go and see what I can find (and hopefully not get blown up by a station)
 
Try any system that has no single booming faction. Other states may also reduce the amount, however, I'm not sure in what way. Choose a system with no states just to be sure. Boom only spawns additional trading ships with escort in supercruise (but their cargo amount is currently bugged); ships that spawn at stations aren't affected.

Try Refinery or Extraction systems (that aren't part industrial/agricultural/high tech). Valuable cargo can be found in most economies though. There may be wanted trading ships there, which likely carry rares or other illegal goods.

Anarchies have their cargo mostly replaced with illegal goods, unless they're booming. In addition, you may attack whatever ship you please at an anarchy station, as long as that ship isn't part of the ruling faction - the station doesn't care.

I'll give this a go and try to confirm,
this sounds like a bgs bug to spawning of npcs.
I really hope to see them ferret out more bugs.
 
2 words for you "Collection" and "Drones".

Seriously. The miners favorite toy is a bennison for pirates.


Ummmm. I read somewhere.
 
2 words for you "Collection" and "Drones".

Seriously. The miners favorite toy is a bennison for pirates.


Ummmm. I read somewhere.

Useless with fast moving targets, due to instantly exploding cargo, as mentioned in the OP.

Only useful with stationary targets - but against those, a class 1 beam laser turret is more efficient at extracting cargo than hatch breakers (the object of this thread).
 
Their stats:

- Class 1A, 3A, 5A, 7A controllers have a base hack time of 18s, 16s, 13s, 11s; the hack time increases gradually towards 2.3x this value within a class as rating is decreased towards E.

- The maximum of active limpets at the same time depends on the rating of the module (E = B > C > D = A). For example, a class 7 module may launch 18, 12, 15, 18, 12 limpets with increasing rating.

- Their power usage varies with class and rating, similar to the other types of controllers. Their weight is consistent with all other types of limpet modules (even if coriolis.io and edshipyard.com STILL haven't fixed that information...). Their maximum range scales continuously with class and rating. Pricing is irrelevant.

- Limpet hack time is proportional to relative hull health of the ship it is attached to. 5% hull equals 5% hack time.

- A successful hack of a single limpet causes a cargo spill; there seems to be a correlation between high rating and a high amount of cargo per spill, however, a spill of 10 or more (though not much more) is rare.




Their current problems:

1. They do not scale with the cargo hold of their victim or user. An Imperial Cutter will as happily lose 10 tons of cargo from a single spill of its 792t cargo hold as would a Hauler with its measly 22t.

2. Attaching multiple limpets in short succession is pointless since successful hacks while a cargo spill is still in progress are without any effect. 5 successful hacks shortly following one hack which triggered a cargo spill is the same as launching only that initial limpet. This significantly cuts the usefulness of a hatch breaker, especially one "better" than 1A, up to rendering it completely useless.

3. Due to the excruciatingly slow way in which cargo trickles out of the cargo hatch, plus the hack time:
- They're pointless to use against targets that can go very high speeds (any ship). If you were to disable some Clipper trader's drives, that trader might be drifting at 400m/s in a direction with no way to stop it. If you were to successfully cause a cargo spill, the cargo will be trickling out for roughly as many seconds as amount of cargo drops out. That may be 8t of Gold for 8 seconds, during which all hack attempts are nil.
- Say you damaged the hull of the Clipper slightly and your hack time is 10s. That would equate to 18s for a single cargo spill.
- There is an 8km hard limit on cargo existence in interdiction instances. Any cargo that is not within 8km within any player will despawn instantly. There is no time for another hack attempt, since the old cargo will start going out of range of existence.
- That leaves you with 8t of gold for ~10min of work. And then you have to pick up the cargo, which will be single canisters strewn across kilometres. How amazingly engaging and rewarding for any ship that is larger than a Cobra. And no, collector drones do not work at high speeds, partly because they won't be able to catch most of the cargo before they go out of range of your ship and partly because they will immediately cause the cargo to explode when it comes in contact with your ship.

4. They have major problems catching up with fast moving targets, even if the user is going a comparable speed as their victim when deploying the limpet.

5. Spinning (rolling) targets may well not have any limpets attached at all, since the limpet will be unable to attach itself a lot of the time.




More implications of their current "design" include:

- their low reward for a long hack time makes pirating in space with police extremely unrewarding, since you will not have much time to pick up cargo, even if you manage to completely stop a ship by disabling its power plant.

- they are pointless to use on players that aren't worse than bots. It is impossible to get any reasonable amount of cargo out of a player once he's stuck floating at high speed in a direction (3). Starting voice communication and getting your grandmother to ask that person to drop cargo is a more effective measure.

- a class 1 beam laser turret is more efficient at extracting cargo from a completely stopped ship than hatch breakers.




Ways to massively improve this part of the game, which seems to be balanced around pirates in cobras (judging by the horrendous hatch breakers and no way to stop a ship with disabled drives, thus giving the impression of about 10t of cargo being a great reward for a small ship), obviously include:

- changing the amount of cargo dropped by a spill to something like max(8, 30%) (8t or 30% of cargo, whichever is higher)

- changing the way cargo leaves the cargo hatch to groups of canisters (4, 8 at once) and allow extension of cargo spill through hack attempts while one is in progress, adding full duration on top of the currently expiring one

- increasing their speed and allowing them to pass through ships




A developer response with concrete content other than "It's on the list" would be highly desirable.

Seemingly a good summary of the issue surrounding just one facet of piracy, to add to the lists for the other almost non-existant facets...

Too much of piracy is a mess, and indeed is somewhat of a avenue to toxic behaviour too.

It needs a solid lump of love to turn it into a viable and entertaining "occupation"... From issues with the tools of the trade, as you point out, to offering viable mechanics for piracy itself, and rewards for doing it well (such as access to hidden platforms with missions and better paying black markets etc).
 
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Im hoping for an engineer module that lets you scan cargo from SC personally, as the time wasting is the biggest problem at the moment (or the number of targets in many cases)

I'm expecting nothing so if we get anything i'll probably be pleased lol :)
 
Im hoping for an engineer module that lets you scan cargo from SC personally, as the time wasting is the biggest problem at the moment (or the number of targets in many cases)

I'm expecting nothing so if we get anything i'll probably be pleased lol :)

Either that, or the ability to hack to get cargo manifests of official cargo-liners
to have some real encounters with persistant convoys.

Tested yesterday a bit, i don't know why, but my screenshots seem to be "invalid files" to the uploader...
I tested in a system with no state on the system/stations, a single faction there was booming but not holding any place.
The cargo on small ships (up to keelback/T6) seems fine, T7s with 40-50 tons seems very odd,
didn't find larger ships.
 
I think I read somebody say that image upload was disabled.

As to ship cargo its weird, some carry nearly nothing going back to what the OP was talking about with boom state NPC's I'm yet to find any type of cargo ship with more than 30t of gold or pcells, everything else i've seen more than 30t of. You do find full T9's but i'm yet to find any that really have something that valuable in them, T7's have been my best so far as they occasionally have science samples or imp slaves etc.

So far i've been trying Anarchies/Patronage/Corporate, high pops, random securities and while i've seen some light correlation between system type and cargo type (agricultural had lots of coffee/tea/food) I can't seem to find any area that reliably has one type of cargo, let alone something of value.

Anyone have any idea about where the richest systems would be? High pop, Corporate, High tech, was what i was guessing but that doesn't seem to be the case.
 
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