Hellmode

[xxThe_Dice_manxx]

I'm strongly against removing modules for crimes against Cmdrs, they are part of the game, live with it.
And ATR must be boosted to have effect, iirc you can Fa off reverski and be faster then a Vulture, no use to send 5 after you if you can outrun them.
I also wouldn't differentiate between crimes against CMDRs and NPCs, but strongly between anarchy-low-medium-high security.

You have heard of the police confiscating homes ,bank accounts , cars from criminals in the real world? Why not in the game?

Yeah on the differentiate thing , same thing I suppose.

When you are wanted with notoriety 2 or higher make it so you can no longer dock at any station then you have no where to repair/reload so the atr will get you eventually.

 

[Bortas]

I have an even better idea... why not install a device on every player's chair, which instantly electrocutes them upon killing another player?

I mean, we need REAL punishment already for a capital crime like forcing another player to spend a few credits of game currency for a rebuy. Everything less than a death sentence for the perpetrator and his entire family is unacceptable.

[woah]

 

[Kaocraft]

What a dumb proposal. Just demand player killers be banned from the game if that's your attitude about it. Spare us these idiotic unworkable needlessly convoluted scenarios.

 

[Bigmaec]

You have heard of the police confiscating homes ,bank accounts , cars from criminals in the real world? Why not in the game?

Yeah on the differentiate thing , same thing I suppose.

When you are wanted with notoriety 2 or higher make it so you can no longer dock at any station then you have no where to repair/reload so the atr will get you eventually.

It's. A. Game.

 

[VR SenseiMatty]

If you go HELL MODE do it right!

Notoriety 6- loss of 1 random engineered G5 module
Notoriety 7- No Engineering Available at rebuy
Notoriety 8 - No Engineering Available at rebuy and loss of Guardian Technology (need to get bluprint again from the orb)
Notoriety 9 - NO REBUY Available and loss of Guardian Technology

Notoriety 10 - PERMADEATH

 

[Dillon Fallon]

I think some caveats need to be added here. This would only affect someone with attacking a clean ship. So, the only worry you have is if you're a noob killer/ ganker in high/med/low security. Even pirates should be ok, since the OP was only talking about anything happening at notoriety 6 and above. If both parties are agreeable to some PvP, there's plenty of lawless areas where this can take place. Just like IRL you wouldn't plan a fight to take place in the centre of town if you didn't want to be caught.

 

[M00ka]

I think some caveats need to be added here. This would only affect someone with attacking a clean ship. So, the only worry you have is if you're a noob killer/ ganker in high/med/low security. Even pirates should be ok, since the OP was only talking about anything happening at notoriety 6 and above. If both parties are agreeable to some PvP, there's plenty of lawless areas where this can take place. Just like IRL you wouldn't plan a fight to take place in the centre of town if you didn't want to be caught.

Exactly, I think some here have over reacted or know that any of the proposals will affect them (boo hoo). Everyone knows the current C&P doesn't target those who go out of their way to ruin the game for others, yes I am talking about the gankers and griefers here, those who have sufficient funds to buy multiple rebuys, and know that any other current penalty is meaningless.

 

[Ian Doncaster]

You have heard of the police confiscating homes ,bank accounts , cars from criminals in the real world? Why not in the game?

It's a settled bit of game lore that if you are arrested for a crime anywhere you are entitled to be tried for that crime in a place you are a citizen of. This is extremely weird by 21st century standards, but it's just the way it works in 3305.

I assume most criminals are therefore citizens of Anarchy systems or other easily bribable jurisdictions who say "10 seconds of community service on the way out of the court, please."



If we're wanting to bring some 21st century realism in - what about "unshielded and unarmed trade ships are uninsurable when travelling to combat hotspots"? Or "every time you get killed, your rebuy % goes up"? In the real world, the less likely something is to happen, the cheaper it is to insure against it. You should only be able to get insurance if your ship is reasonably unlikely to be destroyed in the first place. Elite: Insurance Underwriter sounds like a great game - I wonder why Frontier didn't write that instead?

 

[Bigmaec]

If we're wanting to bring some 21st century realism in - what about "unshielded and unarmed trade ships are uninsurable when travelling to combat hotspots"? Or "every time you get killed, your rebuy % goes up"? In the real world, the less likely something is to happen, the cheaper it is to insure against it. You should only be able to get insurance if your ship is reasonably unlikely to be destroyed in the first place. Elite: Insurance Underwriter sounds like a great game - I wonder why Frontier didn't write that instead?

I'd love the forums after that update

 

[Feros-da-Grundig]

Notoriety level? How about a nooberiety level?

Die 2 times in a row? Forced to perform tutorial on high wake.

Die 5 times in a row? Can only play in solo for the next hour

Die 10 times in a row? Permaban to solo until you A rate you shields, drive, distro and buy at least 2 SCB, and perform 4 engineering mods

I've think I've ever even had notoriety 1 and your proposals sound very bad. Comparing engineering to rebuy is very different, especially with ease of current credit earning methods (not just opals, but especially opals).

[And yes I suppose that makes me the worst pirate you have ever met].

 

[mant3z]

I read about this in another thread:

Notoriety 10 - relentless pursuit from 5 ATR on this CMDR wherever he goes // loss of engineering on all modules at rebuy.
Notoriety 9 - relentless pursuit from 4 ATR on this CMDR wherever he goes // loss of engineering on 1 random module at rebuy.
Notoriety 8 - relentless pursuit from 3 ATR on this CMDR wherever he goes
Notoriety 7 - relentless pursuit from 2 ATR on this CMDR wherever he goes
Notoriety 6 - relentless pursuit from 1 ATR on this CMDR wherever he goes

Caveat - Killing NPCs does not bump Notoriety above 5. Notoriety 6 and above should only come from murder of another CMDR.

NO, stop this crap.
Just go and play different game.

FerosFerioGTR good ideas, I like you we must become friends

 

[M00ka]

So we are now reduced to victim blaming now - how ludicrous lol

So for those against the OP's (and my) suggestions, do you think there should be any C&P penalties in the game at all? Should it just be a free for all where there are no consequences for actions? Just curious because this discussion isn't about someone accidently getting the last shot on a damaged player in a Res, it is aimed at the serious pests of the game. You know, those that hang around starter systems to 'teach the newbies all about the game', the brave, fearless pilots who take meta PvP ships and search for the weakest ships they can find (from what I have read here in the forums, they tend to not bother anyone who can shoot back or the CLog at the first sign of someone who can fight back).

I mean, seriously, do you think those types of players are good for the game?

 

[Feros-da-Grundig]

My suggestions were of course nonsensical, as were the original set.

I'm certain mine would actually go further in terms of reducing ganking though. If you think these guys can't gank from an unengineered viper in eravate then you should learn more about the subject before thinking you can fix it.

Some of us also just don't believe in actual victims in video games, aside from perhaps a few truly extreme cases which crossed into IRL behavior. It's just a rebuy. Don't fly without rebuy, better yet without 5 rebuys.

Most of my "victims" have a lot of fun and send friend requests after, the rest just flee, or try to fight back and then flee, or comms log (since I always start with comms, I don't even get to combat logging stage).

How many times have the posters in this thread actually been ganked? Did you adjust your piloting behavior in any way after?

 

[Ian Doncaster]

I mean, seriously, do you think those types of players are good for the game?

That's not the right question, though. The question should be "do you think that the steps needed to deal in-game with those players would be good for the game?" to which the answer is - based on the suggestions so far - a clear "no".

For example, we could deal with those players by making Solo the only mode. If they can't instance with their targets, problem solved. Most players would probably prefer that Frontier not solve the problem that way. Frontier certainly won't.

The thing is, destroying a Sidewinder flown by an inexperienced pilot doesn't actually require an engineered meta ship. An unengineered frags Viper III is massive overkill already and costs just a few million credits. You could up the punishments to "if you kill another player a Coriolis drops out of supercruise next to you, opens fire, and your account gets reset rather than rebuy" and it still wouldn't save the Sidewinders - it'd just mean people used alt accounts to kill them ... and meanwhile the old "station ramming" trick would get a new lease of life due to the ease of getting moderately inexperienced people to murder you.

Credits earning is really easy, so credit-based consequences aren't. Frontier could haul back credit earning - take two zeroes off the prices of the new mining goods, and one zero off everything else - would that be popular, do you think?

Engineering is pretty easy nowadays, too. I can engineer up a new ship in fifteen minutes of clicking. I can engineer it up to the point where it could take on an unengineered trade ship a lot quicker (a bunch of cheap G3 mods is already overkill and costs virtually nothing in terms of materials). Should engineering be made much harder so that losing an engineered ship is more of a consequence? 2.1 had that and was really popular, right?

Actually killing an unlawful player is really tricky. Very easy for them to tank up their shields and high-wake long before they're in danger. Should we make it much harder to high-wake out of a fight, and make shields much weaker? There's an obvious consequence there, and it's not the hostile players who will be complaining the most about it...

 

[CMDR Cosmic Spacehead]

I read about this in another thread:

Notoriety 10 - relentless pursuit from 5 ATR on this CMDR wherever he goes // loss of engineering on all modules at rebuy.
Notoriety 9 - relentless pursuit from 4 ATR on this CMDR wherever he goes // loss of engineering on 1 random module at rebuy.
Notoriety 8 - relentless pursuit from 3 ATR on this CMDR wherever he goes
Notoriety 7 - relentless pursuit from 2 ATR on this CMDR wherever he goes
Notoriety 6 - relentless pursuit from 1 ATR on this CMDR wherever he goes

Caveat - Killing NPCs does not bump Notoriety above 5. Notoriety 6 and above should only come from murder of another CMDR.

Not a murderer myself, but I'm also not a fan of removing engineering from players who wish to play as murderers.

I'd suggest at level 6+, you simply lose docking privileges, everywhere, except some specific type of station an independent anarchy atleast 20ly from a non anarchy.
Like a "hidden" base, deep in an asteroid belt or something.
But ATR still follows you there.

Basically it means you need to survive long enough to dock.

 

[Leadfoot]

If you go HELL MODE do it right!

Notoriety 6- loss of 1 random engineered G5 module
Notoriety 7- No Engineering Available at rebuy
Notoriety 8 - No Engineering Available at rebuy and loss of Guardian Technology (need to get bluprint again from the orb)
Notoriety 9 - NO REBUY Available and loss of Guardian Technology

Notoriety 10 - PERMADEATH

Sir, your ideas are a horrible perversion of how the game should be played in open.
I like the way you think! Repped. [cool]

 

[Slange Lands]

Krash, I respect your trying to find a more just Crime and Punishment. For people who can't abide the harmless and innocent getting harmed it's only natural. However, true justice, just like IRL, will probably not be possible in Elite Dangerous.

However, I would like to remind you that in all likelihood, the bullies that roam Open, are probably prone to having negative, sarcastic, cynical and antagonistic mindsets. And if they 'don't care', they have put arbitrary filters or blinders on their perspective, which could result in an inability to appreciate the simple, but very profound beauty that surrounds us daily. Their own brains are their jails. We should pity them.

 

[TheMegaTurnip]

So we are now reduced to victim blaming now - how ludicrous lol

So for those against the OP's (and my) suggestions, do you think there should be any C&P penalties in the game at all? Should it just be a free for all where there are no consequences for actions? Just curious because this discussion isn't about someone accidently getting the last shot on a damaged player in a Res, it is aimed at the serious pests of the game. You know, those that hang around starter systems to 'teach the newbies all about the game', the brave, fearless pilots who take meta PvP ships and search for the weakest ships they can find (from what I have read here in the forums, they tend to not bother anyone who can shoot back or the CLog at the first sign of someone who can fight back).

I mean, seriously, do you think those types of players are good for the game?

There is a big difference M00ka between a C&P system that works for everyone, and effectively trying to remove people who's playstyle you don't approve of. Which is effectively what this post is advocating.

Removal of engineering mods = revoval of hundreds of hours of effort. Thats not fair for any in-game activity aside from flagrant cheating.

I'm all for a better C&P system, as much as anyone else, but there has to be some give both ways. The criminals (I included) Want a playstyle thats fun, and you PvE lot want a playstyle thats fun. Removing one from the equation is very much against the equality of the modes quote that gets pulled up repeatedly everytime any changes to PP/The moded system are brought up rather does'nt it?

Also I might add, that the type of people who hunt nooblets are more often than not the folks who get utterly pooped all over at the CG's by the PvPers who can actually fly. Sure theres a few bad eggs, but why should the rest of the PvP community suffer because a couple of people act like T***s?

A C&P system based of combat rank (Or even a new rank for PVP) would be more effective at dealing with greifers/noob killers whilst leaving the actual combat pilots relatively unscathed. IE: Kill a harmless when you're Elite? 250 mil bounty. Etc. But it would take a lot of work on frontiers part to pull off, not to mention effectively adding another stat based of the logs of each pilot's PvP combat history etc.. Something I don't see them getting round to doing anytime soon.

 

[xxThe_Dice_manxx]

It's a settled bit of game lore that if you are arrested for a crime anywhere you are entitled to be tried for that crime in a place you are a citizen of. This is extremely weird by 21st century standards, but it's just the way it works in 3305.

I assume most criminals are therefore citizens of Anarchy systems or other easily bribable jurisdictions who say "10 seconds of community service on the way out of the court, please."



If we're wanting to bring some 21st century realism in - what about "unshielded and unarmed trade ships are uninsurable when travelling to combat hotspots"? Or "every time you get killed, your rebuy % goes up"? In the real world, the less likely something is to happen, the cheaper it is to insure against it. You should only be able to get insurance if your ship is reasonably unlikely to be destroyed in the first place. Elite: Insurance Underwriter sounds like a great game - I wonder why Frontier didn't write that instead?

I'm for it the game needs insurance brokers , what insurance broker is going to pay out to an idiot?

We need police as a career path in the game.

We need the judges from 2000ad ,like the fuel rats but dish out the LAW.

 

[BL1P]

Actually Hellmode was suggested originally as players who persistently murder non wanted players (gankers), exploiters and cheats, get placed into an version of Open which does not effect the Galaxy, BGS etc in anyway.
The only players they would ever meet are like minded gankers, exploiters and cheats.