Hello Frontier, What is Griefing to you? And will I get banned for it?

Im trying to figure out what Griefing in Elite Dangerous really is.

Every other game i've played. People got banned for Griefing. And yet people are still killing other peoples ships for no reason at all.

So what is this griefing? How does that term apply to Elite Dangerous?

Here we can see BrettC the community manager have his take on what this is. But its not really coming from Frontier. This is just a personal opinion.
https://gyazo.com/8e33f7c99892fd59623ed5e959036d89

So can we have a statement about this please? <3
 
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Are you actually aware of what is happening in Beta? I'd try reading that first, so that perhaps the question is a bit more relevant.
 
Are you actually aware of what is happening in Beta? I'd try reading that first, so that perhaps the question is a bit more relevant.

Whats this have to do with the word Griefing?

I hope you're not assuming this Crime and Punishment is going to effect griefers. Because it wont. If anything we will see more of them because of it.
 

dayrth

Volunteer Moderator
Here we can see BrettC the community manager have his take on what this is. But its not really coming from Frontier. This is just a personal opinion.
https://gyazo.com/8e33f7c99892fd59623ed5e959036d89

Bret is the community manager for Frontier. That is absolutely coming from Frontier.

I hope you're not assuming this Crime and Punishment is going to effect griefers. Because it wont. If anything we will see more of them because of it.

Not sure how you draw this conclusion :S
 
Whats this have to do with the word Griefing?

The fact that there is a bounty system being built expressly to provide more consequence to repeated commander related crime?

I hope you're not assuming this Crime and Punishment is going to effect griefers. Because it wont. If anything we will see more of them because of it.

Okay, either you're uninformed, still haven't read the stickied forum posts regards Bounty to address indiscriminate killing because who even reads, or you are intentionally trolling. Also why are you asking if you will be banned for griefing? Have you been repeatedly violating the ToS?

I mean, we can go around in circles all weekend if you really want; or you could probably just do a little bit of reading. And then if it still doesn't make any sense, ask relevant questions with respect to beta.

If you just want to kick-start a crap-fight over the definition of "griefing", perhaps do so here >> it's the Song that Never Ends, it just goes on and on, my friends.
 
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The fact that there is a bounty system being built expressly to provide more consequence to repeated commander related crime?



Okay, either you're uninformed, still haven't read the stickied forum posts regards Bounty to address indiscriminate killing because who even reads, or you are intentionally trolling. Also why are you asking if you will be banned for griefing? Have you been repeatedly violating the ToS?

I mean, we can go around in circles all weekend if you really want; or you could probably just do a little bit of reading. And then if it still doesn't make any sense, ask relevant questions with respect to beta.

If you just want to kick-start a crap-fight over the definition of "griefing", perhaps do so here >> it's the Song that Never Ends, it just goes on and on, my friends.

First of all Ive read it. Not trolling.

This is not a solo, private or Open discussion. This has to do with peoples actions in OPEN play. And if I kill someone just because I feel like it. Is it griefing? The only thing I wont do is kill people in the starting area and kill explorers while exploring. If they hit the bubble and just get caught out. I might, I dont know where theyve been.

And speaking of Lamb Chop and the song that never ends Open/Solo/Private? Shouldn't it have ended by now? This is ridiculous its been going on this long with no talks about within the community from Fdev. Its unfair to us and its unfair to them to allow the fights about it to keep happening. But again this thread is not about that. So leave that discussion there.

This thread is about the word GRIEFER. And how it applies to OPEN play in ELITE DANGEROUS. I just want to be a bad guy and shoot everyone I see. Is that griefing. Or not?
 
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First of all Ive read it. Not trolling.

This is not a solo, private or Open discussion. This has to do with peoples actions in OPEN play. And if I kill someone just because I feel like it. Is it griefing? The only thing I wont do is kill people in the starting area and kill explorers while exploring. If they hit the bubble and just get caught out. I might, I dont know where theyve been.

And speaking of Lamb Chop and the song that never ends Open/Solo/Private? Shouldn't it have ended by now? This is ridiculous its been going on this long with no talks about within the community from Fdev. Its unfair to us and its unfair to them to allow the fights about it to keep happening. But again this thread is not about that. So leave that discussion there.

This thread is about the word GRIEFER. And how it applies to OPEN play in ELITE DANGEROUS. I just want to be a bad guy and shoot everyone I see. Is that griefing. Or not?

It is perfectly allowed. Ofcourse, not everyone will appreciate it.
 
Personally speaking, players who just want to kill other players and act as bad guys are PKers, not griefers. In my eyes a Griefer is someone who goes out of their way to ruin other ppls game by doing things like destroying underpowered newbie ships, destroying explorers who've covered 10s of thousands of lys and using cheap, cheesy exploits like station ramming and mine laying inside stations

The only thing I wont do is kill people in the starting area and kill explorers while exploring.

Got to respect you for that. +1
 
First of all Ive read it. Not trolling.

This is not a solo, private or Open discussion. This has to do with peoples actions in OPEN play. And if I kill someone just because I feel like it. Is it griefing? The only thing I wont do is kill people in the starting area and kill explorers while exploring. If they hit the bubble and just get caught out. I might, I dont know where theyve been.

And speaking of Lamb Chop and the song that never ends Open/Solo/Private? Shouldn't it have ended by now? This is ridiculous its been going on this long with no talks about within the community from Fdev. Its unfair to us and its unfair to them to allow the fights about it to keep happening. But again this thread is not about that. So leave that discussion there.

This thread is about the word GRIEFER. And how it applies to OPEN play in ELITE DANGEROUS. I just want to be a bad guy and shoot everyone I see. Is that griefing. Or not?

You can do pretty much anything the game allows and you will be fine. Don't send abusive messages swearing. Anything else which game mechanics allow is fair game. (But your actions may get you on players blocklists)
 
This thread is about the word GRIEFER. And how it applies to OPEN play in ELITE DANGEROUS. I just want to be a bad guy and shoot everyone I see. Is that griefing. Or not?

I'm just curious, if you will humor me, other than 'just wanting to be a BAD guy' why do you want to indiscriminately kill players? And I did see you had some stipulations you observe.

Chief
 
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I'm just curious, if you will humor me, other than 'just wanting to be a BAD guy' why do you want to indiscriminately kill players? And I did see you had some stipulations you observe.

Chief

Well I started out playing a good guy. So why not play a bad guy sometimes too. Its fun to get wanted and have people come after your bounty. Wish more people stepped up and played the good guys. Its fun and dynamic.

And before someone pops off. "FUN FOR YOU MAYBE!" Yeah yeah, I get ganked plenty too. I know my place as a trader. I know what I need to do for my end of the PVP to escape. Its why I play in open. I love this interaction. I encourage people to come after me for whatever reason anytime. Its a game after all :)
 
There have been many debates in this forum as to what constitutes "griefing". It is not an official term, but rather a style of game play that players often complain about or object to. There are three schools of thought. They are:

1. Killing players does not constitute "griefing" because the game mechanics allow this.

2. Killing players can constitute "griefing", but only if this breaches the EULA which prohibits the "harassing or bullying of others" (c 7.3.1).

3. Killing players does constitute "griefing" if there is no legitimate in-game purpose or objective for the killing.

Each view has its pros and cons.

The first view is popular with proponents of P v P and has the fewest restrictions. Provided the killing of the player does not amount to harassment or bullying, then it is allowed even if it is a crime within the game. It is also the view adopted by FD at present. Even the proposed Pilots' Federation Bounty (PFB) and penalty re-buy mechanics do not seek to prevent the killing of players in any circumstances. At best may they be said to be game mechanics that discourage the killing of "clean" players in limited circumstances.

The second view is strict, and to my knowledge, has never been used. No doubt, if a player repeatedly killed another player for no apparent reason, then an argument could be made that this constitutes harassment or bullying contrary to the terms of the EULA, but this would be an extreme case. Using the ELUA also means that FD then has to deal with an in-game problem using an out of the game process. I suspect that is something FD is reluctant to do.

The third view is popular with players who engage in aspects of the game that do not involve P v P (such as exploration or trade). Most often the complaint is that they were killed for no apparent reason and in circumstances that were unfair (e.g. combat ship v trade ship). Unfortunately, what you or I think is unfair does not take the argument anywhere and most often ignites a debate about the attacking player's subjective intent, purpose, etc.

So all that can be confidently said is "griefing" does not have a precise meaning, but must amount to the harassment or bullying of a player within the meaning of the EULA before a ban will be imposed. In practical terms, this probably means that a player would need to target and repeatedly kill another player before FD steps in (if at all). That is not to say that the third view has no validity, but it lacks the precision needed to be regulated in game. The PFB and penalty re-buy is one way to regulate some forms player behaviour and the proposed karma system is another. However, none go so far as to prohibit the killing of players if the attacker is willing to accept the in-game consequences. That may be a bounty, large re-buy cost and bad karma, but not a ban.

In the end, the P v P catch cry "git gud or go solo" is the answer :)

P.S. This thread probably should be in the general discussion sub-forum as it really has little to do with the beta.
 
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You can shoot whomever you like, whenever you like, wherever you like. You'll just get a bounty for it. Two, now, actually. What you don't get is a free ride doing so.

If you abide by the ToS then you are in the clear. You'll still be held accountable though. Whether or not whatever you do is defined is greifing or not is irrelevant; it's just a label. Repeated harassment and abuse is not on and is that is a ToS breach. Which is fair enough.

So, apart from "why is Frontier persecuting me for shooting people without reason", what was the actual point of the thread?
 
You can shoot whomever you like, whenever you like, wherever you like. You'll just get a bounty for it. Two, now, actually. What you don't get is a free ride doing so.

If you abide by the ToS then you are in the clear. You'll still be held accountable though. Whether or not whatever you do is defined is greifing or not is irrelevant; it's just a label. Repeated harassment and abuse is not on and is that is a ToS breach. Which is fair enough.

So, apart from "why is Frontier persecuting me for shooting people without reason", what was the actual point of the thread?

Let me ask you this. Have you tried opposing a CG and stopping a trader? Playing the part of a Fed in Imp Space? You know the two competing sides to try and fill the bar up faster? Try going after traders and such sometime. Just to see what its like.

Some people are good sports, even though they maybe a little put off they got pirated or straight up murdered.

But then there are some guys that get really really upset. You seem to have a lot of ranking here on the Fdev forums so Im sure youve seen the salt flow through at one point.

So, most of the time, I dont mind the name calling. But its when the threats come out. And the armchair psychologist threads about how immoral that was and you are no longer a decent human being in real life. Hell, there were even people trying to dox each other. And I see you are a streamer, so that could be pretty invasive. All over getting blown up in a video game.

Its safe to say its been unclear for quite sometime.

Here you can see this thread posted on reddit over a year ago, https://www.reddit.com/r/EliteDangerous/comments/3k4p0r/im_slightly_annoyed_with_the_sub_currently/

The exact same thing happens on this sub as well.

In a game with lasers and multicannons it should be pretty implied.

However you can see my other thread here about understanding the problems of open play, Which I see you commented in and told me to "seek help". Looks like you would be one of the people I am talking about. Shame.
 
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