Help me Build the Best VR experience from scratch as of 10/19 (PC ...is iMac even a consideration?)

[He$$eeTant]

@Danrudy

Should be a great system, I've just upgraded to the i9 9900KS and one thing I don't see mentioned is cooling that beast especially if your tempted to OC
I tried one of these NOCTUA NH-D15 DUAL RADIATOR you will need a large case for this fan setup due to it's size. Worked ok but temps were on what I consider the high side when running anything ED or DCS etc
Temp @ idle was 40(ish) anything cpu intensive and way up to 90(ish) for games. So now it is water cooled with a custom loop kit(something I've always wantedt to do). Using prime 95 set to torture test all 16 cores/threads temps are 50-52 for short durations I have not left it running for hours.

VR experience with the HP Reverb for me has been the best so far

Was my first note of caution and why I stepped down to the 9700 then OC it under liquid cooling.

 

[Danrudy]

Thanks.....silly me building my first water cooled system. I bought the kit linked below thinking I would be able to use the single kit for both the CPU and the GPU.....at least that was what was told to me when I asked a question on some other forum since I was not sure I was seeing enough inputs on the pump for two loops. I hope they are correct....or, I will be buying another....lol Also, when I was building the system on the custom OC builder website it seemed to imply (which made sense to me) the KS cannot be overclocked since it is already maxed out from Intel
https://www.newegg.com/thermaltake-pacific-c360-ddc-soft-tube-water-cooling-kit/p/N82E16835106586?item=N82E16835106586&source=region&nm_mc=knc-googleadwords-pc&cm_mmc=knc-googleadwords-pc-_-pla-_-liquid+/+water+cooling-_-N82E16835106586&gclid=Cj0KCQiAoIPvBRDgARIsAHsCw09S73RwBYfT6-o0Fay9tB5VBFEMGK-ohpzNx8is7nZ74ieO0iR9lM4aArL4EALw_wcB&gclsrc=aw.ds

 

[Jezzer]

Looking at that kit you should able to add an additional block at a later date looks to me like it is only for the CPU. As i understand it, the flow to cool 2 devices would be something like :-

Pump out > Rad in : Rad out > CPU in : CPU out > GPU in : GPU out > Res in : Res out > Pump in assuming you wanted to cool the CPU 1st. Lots of info on the web about this.

Spoiler: i9 9900KS @ 5.2 :)

 

[Danrudy]

Looking at that kit you should able to add an additional block at a later date looks to me like it is only for the CPU. As i understand it, the flow to cool 2 devices would be something like :-

Pump out > Rad in : Rad out > CPU in : CPU out > GPU in : GPU out > Res in : Pump in assuming you wanted to cool the CPU 1st. Lots of info on the web about this.

Spoiler: i9 9900KS @ 5.2 :)

Thanks..Parts are starting to arrive. Hopefully, all parts will be here by next week. Thanks for the schematic. Very Helpful! ...Honestly, I glanced but had not found a schematic or info about this yet on the web. I know it has to be there. But, I have not done the deep dive yet (that is saved for when I get into panic mode). Your schematic was helpful and reassuring. Having NEVER done one of these or even thought about it up until now I was wondering why the reservoir was not between the cpu and the GPU. But, I am sure people have done measurements and determined this is the best order.....Cool. Actually excited about the project. I would like to read more about this.
BTW......5.2??? Wow!

 

[Danrudy]

So, I have been talking with two friends and there seems to be some disagreement so i figured I would ask you guys since you have been really great and helpful (and may have a different insight).
The MB I bought has 2 NVMe slots. I already purchased (but can return ) the Samsung 970 PRO 1TB (which was not cheap....real expensive $/mb)That seems to be the fastest out there. My friend suggested that I get cheaper secondary HD (Like a SATA )and would just be using the NVMe for fast booting. THus, he thinks I should have gotten the 512 GB as I will be wasting and not using much memory. He says I should have 3-4GB of seconday drives since the VR games will take up room and the primary fast SSD will be just for booting. so 512 ok.
On the other hand, I already have the 1TB and I have an additional NBMe slot. I was thinking of getting the Samsung 970 EVO plus or some other brand that comes in 2TB (the evo 2tb also isnt not cheap but less expensive than the EVO pro). Thus, I would have a total of 3tb (1tb on the fastest drive and 2tb on a pretty fast drive also).
IS there some reason I cannot think of that it is beneficial to have the first drive (evo PRO) only for booting and to keep the games on the other drive? What would be wrong with also using some of the 1tb drive to store a game I like and then overflow to the 2tb?
My initial thought was to just purchuse and use just the 1tb for booting , data and storing games. And, when that starts to fill up, I could get a second NVMe drive to add games and data going forward. Hopefully, when I need to do this in a year, NVMe prices will have dropped and there will be even larger capacity. SO, in summary, is there any reason why I should not use the 1TB to boot, store games and date until it starts to fill up an then add a second NVMe later when needed (like in a year) ? Or, should I really have a separate boot drive from the intial setup? If I should have a second boot drive, then maybe I should return the 1tb for a 512gb and save some money if I should not be filling that drive up....Anyways, guidance appreciated with these final pieces to the puzzle.

 

[Space Dandy]

For drives you want your OS on a really fast drive so a ssd will be fine and 1 500gb or so ssd is fine if you just run the os and the like on it maybe a few other programs. Ideally you dont want your ssd to be full or in the red as it just not good for em and it slows them down.

You also want a bigger sized secondary ssd to put your games in. This is a good set up as this way you can reformat your main drive, reinstall your OS for w/e reason and not have to mess around with putting the games back on etc.

Last for music and videos/movies a really huge xTB HDD is just fine to use for storage.

I mean it's fine to use a 1tb nvme for your OS and to add some game on it just don't fill it up, buy a proper secondary drive for games sooner rather than waiting till this one is in the red.

 

[Jezzer]

Almost as above here's my current setup

C: System drive : M.2 nvme 1TB Samsung 970 Evo + : Winblows 10, DCS, apps etc
D: : M.2 nvme 500GB Samsung 950 pro : Games ( I don't play many, so larger may be better and I already had the drive)
E: : 1TB SSD
F: : 4TB One of them old spinny things : Music, Photo's, Vids etc

Maybe not to everyone's liking or the most efficient and if you factor in cost then as long as the wife doesn't see the bill, all is good.

There's chart toward the end of this article that shows loading times for some games between HDD, SSD & NVME https://www.gamingpcbuilder.com/best-m-2-nvme-ssd/

I'm just happy I can now get to my email in 0.95 of a sec instead of waiting 1sec for it to load

 

[aXeL]

For some games I used IMDISK with a script to create a RAM drive and run the games out of there. I did this to minimise transitions in Skyrim ( going through doors or gates ) and X3 ( going through jump gates ). In Skyrim in particular it made all the transitions instant and seamless, it really added to the immersion for me. Similar for X3 but not as pronounced. I've not tried with ED so I've no idea for this one. The downside is that the initial load of the games took around 10s-15s extra. Generally I would sleep or hibernate the rig so it wasn't really an issue. It helps that the PC has 32Gb RAM so there's plenty of storage.

If you fancy a look, myself and a friend have used it and never had a problem:
https://sourceforge.net/projects/imdisk-toolkit/

 

[Darth Wonko]

So, I have been talking with two friends and there seems to be some disagreement so i figured I would ask you guys since you have been really great and helpful (and may have a different insight).
The MB I bought has 2 NVMe slots. I already purchased (but can return ) the Samsung 970 PRO 1TB (which was not cheap....real expensive $/mb)That seems to be the fastest out there. My friend suggested that I get cheaper secondary HD (Like a SATA )and would just be using the NVMe for fast booting. THus, he thinks I should have gotten the 512 GB as I will be wasting and not using much memory. He says I should have 3-4GB of seconday drives since the VR games will take up room and the primary fast SSD will be just for booting. so 512 ok.
On the other hand, I already have the 1TB and I have an additional NBMe slot. I was thinking of getting the Samsung 970 EVO plus or some other brand that comes in 2TB (the evo 2tb also isnt not cheap but less expensive than the EVO pro). Thus, I would have a total of 3tb (1tb on the fastest drive and 2tb on a pretty fast drive also).
IS there some reason I cannot think of that it is beneficial to have the first drive (evo PRO) only for booting and to keep the games on the other drive? What would be wrong with also using some of the 1tb drive to store a game I like and then overflow to the 2tb?
My initial thought was to just purchuse and use just the 1tb for booting , data and storing games. And, when that starts to fill up, I could get a second NVMe drive to add games and data going forward. Hopefully, when I need to do this in a year, NVMe prices will have dropped and there will be even larger capacity. SO, in summary, is there any reason why I should not use the 1TB to boot, store games and date until it starts to fill up an then add a second NVMe later when needed (like in a year) ? Or, should I really have a separate boot drive from the intial setup? If I should have a second boot drive, then maybe I should return the 1tb for a 512gb and save some money if I should not be filling that drive up....Anyways, guidance appreciated with these final pieces to the puzzle.

I just found this thread as I was looking for "Someone please tell me what VR to buy" kind of topics.

I'm in the midst of my second water-cooled rig. I tend to go all-out on them and the previous rig lasted seven years before I had to consider building a new one. My hope is this one will last as long.

I can probably answer a few questions for you as I ran into a ton of problems in my first WC build because I consistently misjudged how much time or money any particular part of the project would take. I'm doing things differently now, and am having a better experience this time. So, if you want to PM me, feel free.

On my rig, I'm doing custom sleeving on all cables and rigid tubing on the cooling.

My current build is:

• Gigabyte Designare z390 board
• Intel i9-9900K CPU
• 64GB Hyper-X Predator DDR4
• Dual EVGA RTX 2080 Ti w/ SLI
• 2 x 1 TB Samsung 970 Pro PCIe NVMe
• Creative Sound Blaster AE-7
• Seasonic Prime Platinum SSR1200-PD PSU
• CaseLabs SMA-8 chassis

My water cooling (which isn't finished) is two independent loops - one for the GPUs and one for CPU/RAM. Cooling the RAM is completely unnecessary, but it looks cool.

There are some fantastic resources online for WC builds and it's quite an education. Some of those guys are nuts. LOL

My initial thought was to just purchuse and use just the 1tb for booting , data and storing games. And, when that starts to fill up, I could get a second NVMe drive to add games and data going forward.

Since I'm opinionated (LOL), I'll answer your question about what drive to buy: keep the 1TB and don't buy the 512GB.

One of the biggest problems I ran into on my first build was how I continually second-guessed myself. So, let me warn you against 'analysis paralysis'. Your initial thought was a good one, and then you've sought out advice from others, which shows wisdom on your part. So, regardless of which way you go, you're doing this the right way and you should feel confident in your process.

The way I do it is I figure out what I want the system to end up as and the buy the pieces to get there. I didn't buy both 970 Pro's at once. I bought one and then bought the other further into the build. Same with the video cards and the memory and I only got the sound card a couple of weeks ago.

My system is woefully undercooled, but it's also not overclocked and I'm only running one video card... the other is on my bench with the waterblock half-installed. Right now, it has stock fans on the GPU and a decent heatsink/fan on the CPU.

I want to point out that most of what I've looked at in this thread is good advice. On a limited budget, the recommendations about what to use for OS vs data, etc. is all good stuff, and it's obvious most everyone here knows what they're about.

But, IMHO, if you're going to use the 970 Pro's, you can pretty much forget about "boot from here" and "game from there" and " files over here".

These aren't spinners, and we're not using IDE connections with master/slave jumpers. Partitioning on the PCIe NVMe drive is more about organizing your stuff than actual performance. The amount of bandwidth available on those PCIe slots is not going to be a bottleneck on anything we're doing and seek times are ridiculously short on these things, so I/O bottlenecks aren't going to be an issue, either.

The other thing I'd tell you is that there is no such thing as "excessive" or "you don't need that", so if one of your friends says that, you can ignore it unless it specifically pertains to making a poor purchasing choice (such as, "Hey... since you're water-cooling that rig, you really don't need all those chassis fans you're installing"). Hell, I don't need almost everything I own, and neither do you. If this is where you want to sink your money, then go for it.

I would warn you, though: once you build a water-cooled rig, you'll do it again. And, you'll look at so-called 'customized' computers from <insert name of gaming computer bought by some mega-company like Dell or HP> and kind of think "awww... how cute".

It's a gigantic pain in the rear in every way you can imagine. It's unbelievably expensive ("Wait.. each one of those connectors is $14.95 and I have to have HOW many of them?!!?") and annoying to maintain ("Hold on a sec... I'm almost done draining my computer so I can disconnect all of the tubing so I can add that other stick of RAM").

But, on the plus side, you do get to say cool things like "I'm really disappointed in the evaporation rate on loop 2... I keep having to add coolant". (Oh, and "coolant" is the term we use... not "distilled water".)

Oh, and don't forget to put sterling silver in a line to act as an anti-microbial. You can get a coil for $10-ish.

 

[Danrudy]

Oh, and don't forget to put sterling silver in a line to act as an anti-microbial. You can get a coil for $10-ish.

Thanks....lots of good advice there and it gives me hope that we can get it done. ( I really want her to be inspired by this build). Never heard of the silver anti-microbial. I do feel better about the 970 Pro 1tb. As it turns out i found one 40 dollars cheaper on cyber Monday so I bought a second one with the intention to send back the first. I was wavering if I should keep 2 but it occurred to me that I will not be filling it up so fast. It will likely sit empty for almost a year... So, I am just going to keep the one and add one later as needed (I feel better about that after reading your post).
I will definitely PM you as issues come up...I hope to have all parts in house by next week and then to start the process. I will update as I go....

 

[Danrudy]

For some games I used IMDISK with a script to create a RAM drive and run the games out of there. I did this to minimise transitions in Skyrim ( going through doors or gates ) and X3 ( going through jump gates ). In Skyrim in particular it made all the transitions instant and seamless, it really added to the immersion for me. Similar for X3 but not as pronounced. I've not tried with ED so I've no idea for this one. The downside is that the initial load of the games took around 10s-15s extra. Generally I would sleep or hibernate the rig so it wasn't really an issue. It helps that the PC has 32Gb RAM so there's plenty of storage.

If you fancy a look, myself and a friend have used it and never had a problem:
https://sourceforge.net/projects/imdisk-toolkit/

that is hardcore!!....That seems like a cool project (for a later date.) But, glad to know such an option exists. Because up to now, I didn't.

 

[Darth Wonko]

Thanks....lots of good advice there and it gives me hope that we can get it done. ( I really want her to be inspired by this build). Never heard of the silver anti-microbial. I do feel better about the 970 Pro 1tb. As it turns out i found one 40 dollars cheaper on cyber Monday so I bought a second one with the intention to send back the first. I was wavering if I should keep 2 but it occurred to me that I will not be filling it up so fast. It will likely sit empty for almost a year... So, I am just going to keep the one and add one later as needed (I feel better about that after reading your post).
I will definitely PM you as issues come up...I hope to have all parts in house by next week and then to start the process. I will update as I go....

Feel free! Believe me... I did at least as much wrong as I did right that first time. LOL

 

[Danrudy]

Feel free! Believe me... I did at least as much wrong as I did right that first time. LOL

Hi, Update.
So we actually started the build which was slowed as some parts were delayed and then we have had limited time doing it around her school work and vacations etc.
However, I have been making a push the last 2 weeks between work to move this thing along as I need to get it done.
I am just laying out the piping and ran into a question.
I took a few pics to demonstrate my layout. See below.
The first 5 are computer pics and the last are the parts I am asking about (#26 and #27...the compressor fittings..2 types)
The plan is to loop from the radiator out (bottom of computer on right facing us) straight up to one of the radiator inputs on from of the triple fan set up near the top. Exit via the other hole from the radiator to CPU.
My main question is does it make any difference at all (and I am assuming the answer is NO but wanted to check to be safe ) which hole I use for the input and which I use for the output in the radiator or CPU (Or graphics card for that matter). I am assuming these are NOT unidirectional flows but can accommodate flow in either direction so it doesn't matter which hole I use for input and which for output. Is that a safe assumption? The instructions always demonstrate a specific hole but never explicitly say only use this hole for input etc and since I imagine these are just empty water blocks filling with water they can accommodate either input for either function. But, better safe than sorry so I am asking.
Also, the compressor fitting for the CPU is using two types as pictured according to instructions one is straight out (the top one in the photo Part #26_ and one is at a right angle (the bottom one a combo of Part #26 and #27). The diagram had shown using the angled bent one in the instructions for the input. However, as built, I am really not able to get the tube straight from the radiator to the CPU input in a straight line since there are 4x 8gb RAM next to CPU which stick out and block the path.
So, I wondered if I could remove the combo 26/27 angled fitting and just use the 26 in both the upper and lower so I can come in with tube and a steeper rather than flatter angle and get around the RAM easier. They all seem to have O rings. Also, I assume it does not make a difference which I use as the input and output.
Similarly, on the AORUS graphics card, I assumed I could use either for the input and output and could configure them to either go upwards downwards or whatever combo worked best.
Are these all safe assumptions?
Thanks,
Dan

https://imgur.com/H0DuQ2M

Source: https://imgur.com/H0DuQ2M

https://imgur.com/LFbv8eD

Source: https://imgur.com/LFbv8eD

https://imgur.com/tMk8kMB

Source: https://imgur.com/tMk8kMB

https://imgur.com/6YYDAS1

Source: https://imgur.com/6YYDAS1

https://imgur.com/6hRlF3l

Source: https://imgur.com/6hRlF3l

https://imgur.com/YLIAnCG

Source: https://imgur.com/YLIAnCG

 

[Danrudy]

Well...I just finished the build. Runs nice. Took way longer than anticipated but ran into some problems with BIOS compatibility with CPU that took a while to figure out and identify. Now I am ready to buy a VR headset. But, I just saw the posts about VR being phased out of ED. Man on man. That was one of the main motivations to build this VR machine. I hope that it is not true. Anyways, thanks to all of you for help and suggestions along the way.

 

[TorTorden_VR]

People have been harping that "frontier is dropping VR support " thing since VR released.

They are base less, unfounded rumors.
The only shred of a hint is a single paragraph in an interview with Braben where he admitted he's not particularly satisfied with the state of vr as a complete replacement of playing on monitors.

The interview was in spring 2016.
Just after the launch of the very first hmd's.
Those days vr where 10x more awkward than today.
I'm one of the biggest proponents for VR out there and I wasn't satisfied in 2016.
But we don't revolutionize how we interact with computers in a single go.
It needs development.

We have seen a lot of features added since then and a lot of work done to make these features work in VR.
So I'm not worried about the future in VR support going forward.

 

[Ganogati]

But, I just saw the posts about VR being phased out of ED. Man on man.

It's not. FDev itself hasn't even hinted at this being a thing; it's a rumor that started on the forums and will eventually die there. They've invested a decent amount of money into VR, and a lot of public perception about this game focuses around VR. It would make no sense.

Enjoy your new rig! Ive been playing on the Vive Pro and it's really nice, but I've heard the Rift S looks even better (despite being cheaper). I actually had been saving up for, and just ordered, a Pimax headset which arrives soon so I am really pumped about that.

ED is likely the best sitting VR experience you will have for a while, so whenever you get it be prepared to be absolutely blown away.

 

[aXeL]

Random food for thought, for the WC build, I went for the really daft extremes just to scalp a few extra degrees here and there which are tiny individually but they did add up:

1. Radiator shrouds. I found that by putting 3cm shrouds between the push/pull sides of my 360x360mm rad it brought stress temps down by ~1.5C CPU ( yup small for just one change but add them all up ) and ~0.5C for GPU ( which I would argue is well within tolerance of testing but consistent enough for me to have noted it ).
2. Splitting the flow. I forked all my flows so that the CPU and my 3x GPUs ( before I went to a single GPU ), were on separate loops which only converged at the pump. This got me ~2C better on the GPUs and nothing on the CPU ( which I get because, beforehand, the CPU had been ahead of the GPUs ).
3. Placing one of my pumps just before the radiator so, in principle, the heat generated by the pump is dissipated. There was a second pump because forking can be restrictive if, as I did, one shrinks the forked pipes to increase flow speed. Didn't see any noticeable difference other than being purist about pump heat. Mooted anyway after I put the second pump in.
4. Copper devices and metal TIM ( Liquid Metal Pro was the best available at the time ) wherever possible. This can be suicide for re-use because there is a TIM reaction and especially if there are nickel and copper blocks in the loop together since they form a dielectric potential depending on the fluid. I get enough of one that I'm forever ( ok once every few years ), scraping oxidised material from the filter in the loop. They used to collect on the fins inside the CPU block when I opened it but the filter fixed it.

There was big debate as to the benefits overall, which is why I wanted to test how the scenarios applied to my own rig however, I was ignoring pragmatism for the sake of experimenting with the rig to see how far it could go. Must've been doing something right because the 4690K was 'Skyrim Stable' at 4.8GHz for 3 years before voltage degradation made me back it down to 4.7GHz and eventually 4.6GHz where is now.

'Skyrim Stable' sounds daft but this rig would bench 24x7 on P95, IBT, 3DMark, wPrime, Furmark etc. All the load tests I could throw at it - great! And then Skyrim would prove the OC was unstable. I mean really, Skyrim... SKYRIM! W.T.F?!

BTW, I'm not advocating any of the above for any reason other than playing! For me it was a case of testing forum debates on my own rig.