Help me understand what is it you get to do after getting longer jump ranges.

[Kenaz]

Do what every other player does in Elite. Fly your ship, trade, explore, mine, pirate, bounty hunt, run missions, smuggle, earn merits, whichever gameplay mechanic you want to spend your time doing. You can do everything in any system. You can do everything in any ship.

I guess from your name it's clear that you aren't a combat preferred ship pilot, which is totally, fine, I have two. love my AspXs.
But combat pilots aren't complaining about flying their FDLs across the bubble to do some long-haul missions or mine some Painite. Traders, Explorers. Miners are... for the most part fine with the jump ranges.

But even, don't you think there's aspects of the game that could be improved? Is the current Powerplay really the embodiment of nations in alliances and cold war? You fly through "hostile" territory, and what? you might get interdicted a little more by opposing major factions? What about my minor faction post to you? is that really it? done and dusted? no possible way to improve it anymore? don't you think a few more mechanisms could be included to improve a sense of cultural diversity throughout the bubble? You don't think FD can get players more involved in the BGS? bring it out into the foreground?

Maybe the powers actually go into open war (then side swiped by an alien war). Would combat pilots finally have a "frontline" for constant activity instead of bouncing all over the bubble all the time for CGs?

Or "Supercarriers" that combat ships can dock onto (maybe is power related, maybe not, i don't know) so they can hit combat points of interest without going through 30 loadscreens unless they really wanted...

See the idea? this is just putting ideas out there. FDev can evaluate the merit and feasibility. but some of the features described on the first post might benefit non combat pilots too...

- - - - - Additional Content Posted / Auto Merge - - - - -

To OP, join powerplay, and limit your game time to 2 hrs a night.
You'll answer you own question very quickly.

I have Prismatic Shields on all 5 of my ships. I'm not a combat preferred pilot.
So maybe you can elaborate more

 

[CMDR Cosmic Spacehead]

Easy answer to that is find a ship more suited to the task at hand

Well the FDL is supposed to be a luxury bounty hunter. Lol
No other rankless combat ship is as good as the FDL. Vulture is good, but doesn't have the stopping/staying power of an FDL.

And on top of that, I can't actually think of a ship suited to being a heavy escort. Except maybe a FAS. But I don't like them. Lol
Plenty that can follow a fully laden trader, but not really protect it, and forcibly draw fire away long enough for it to escape.

 

[fuub]

There are a few nebulae I can't reach in my combat capable exploration Vulture, the Ronin. Can't bring myself to give up those military bulkheads though.

This isn't one of them...

Spoiler

https://i.imgur.com/XdXjEos.jpg

...nor this one...

Spoiler

http://i.imgur.com/Omw8c2t.jpg

...this one...

Spoiler

http://i.imgur.com/WLQwZPx.jpg

...this one...

Spoiler

http://i.imgur.com/aulhExo.jpg

...this one...

Spoiler

http://i.imgur.com/0gV4Xth.jpg

...this one...

Spoiler

http://i.imgur.com/CjACsWk.jpg

...and this one.

Spoiler

http://i.imgur.com/ZyvuBSF.jpg

To be continued...

high res nebulas would be awesome. But not on the galaxy map, only when you are there.

 

[Kenaz]

The advantage of longer jump ranges:

- Exploration!! You *can* do exploration with a 15 LY jump range, but I wouldn't consider it. For exploration to be worth it, you need to get out at least a couple thousand LY from the bubble. That's when you'll run into profitable undiscovered systems regularly. Or 15000+ LY and you'll be in the neutron fields ... and those are REALLY profitable!

- Long range smuggling missions: Robigo/Fehu/Sothis/17 Draconis ... all these require travelling around 350-400 LY to and from them. And if you accept any of their transport or courier missions, you'll be interdicted *constantly*. With short jump ranges, you will be pulling your hair out and yelling at the screen. Not to mention failing many courier missions because you didn't get there in time.

- Simply getting from point A to B faster within the bubble. So here's the thing: combat ships have short jump ranges as it's assumed most will find a specific system or set of systems. But if you're the type of player who simply likes to travel around and go somewhere new on a whim, the time spent going from point A to B is dead time. So taking five minutes to get there is certainly better than taking 10 or 15 minutes to get there. Not to mention time spent fuel scooping.

Ok, you said you don't explore in a 15ly ship. But do you really try long distance smuggling in a 10-15ly ships? It's okay if the answer is yet, I at least won't judge. just curious

 

[SheepDip82]

If my FDL had higher jump range, for whatever reason (not disucssing it!), I would travel to combat CGs more often, and, I would like to be able to run escorts for traders.

The thing is...if the trade ship/wing wants an escort, they need to make shorter jumps so the escorts can keep up.

 

[Z Cochrane]

Well the FDL is supposed to be a luxury bounty hunter. Lol
No other rankless combat ship is as good as the FDL. Vulture is good, but doesn't have the stopping/staying power of an FDL.

And on top of that, I can't actually think of a ship suited to being a heavy escort. Except maybe a FAS. But I don't like them. Lol
Plenty that can follow a fully laden trader, but not really protect it, and forcibly draw fire away long enough for it to escape.

Anaconda?

 

[CMDR BOSLEY]

What we want to do is not spend 70% of our playtime watching the hyperspace loading screen over and over. Instead we want do the activities in the game. So better jump range means less time wasted, you know real life with jobs and responsibilities limits the time you can spend playing videogames greatly; so it would be nice to spend said time playing then staring at that loading sequence constantly.

 

[Kenaz]

What we want to do is not spend 70% of our playtime watching the hyperspace loading screen over and over. Instead we want do the activities in the game. So better jump range means less time wasted, you know real life with jobs and responsibilities limits the time you can spend playing videogames greatly; so it would be nice to spend said time playing then staring at that loading sequence constantly.

Is it a problem with explorer ships? trade ships? combat ships? all of the above?

 

[Asp Explorer]

What we want to do is not spend 70% of our playtime watching the hyperspace loading screen over and over. Instead we want do the activities in the game. So better jump range means less time wasted, you know real life with jobs and responsibilities limits the time you can spend playing videogames greatly; so it would be nice to spend said time playing then staring at that loading sequence constantly.

Why not pick a system you really like (for whatever reason) and spend your game time there so you don't have to spend 70% of your playtime jumping?

What is there in other systems that you need to jump to?

 

[WR3ND]

high res nebulas would be awesome. But not on the galaxy map, only when you are there.

My goal has been to show the whole of the nebulae close up as viewed from the same angle of Sol, level with the galactic plane. I'm sure I'll catalog them somewhere in the exploration section after I'm done reaching all the semi-local ones that I can. As mentioned, a few seem to be cut off, so I may eventually return to them using a different build, but we'll see.

 

[CTCParadox]

Why not pick a system you really like (for whatever reason) and spend your game time there so you don't have to spend 70% of your playtime jumping?

What is there in other systems that you need to jump to?

This right here is a big problem in Elite. Really apart from CGs there is no need for combat ships to leave a system once they found a nice combination of station locations/RES etc. Kind of negates the point of having a massive PG galaxy if you encourage players to stay in one system their whole career.

CMDR CTCParadox

 

[Asp Explorer]

Kind of negates the point of having a massive PG galaxy if you encourage players to stay in one system their whole career

That is their choice though. I know a few people who started work when they graduated, worked at the same company their entire career until retirement - because it was comfortable and rewarding for them.

I know other people who only ever contract out and sometimes spend just a few weeks in a position, never work in the same location more than a couple of times, and run all over the place either on their passport or a work visa - because it's exciting and rewarding for them.

The same thing applies in Elite. Nothing is keeping you in one place apart from your choice to stay there.

 

[WR3ND]

This right here is a big problem in Elite. Really apart from CGs there is no need for combat ships to leave a system once they found a nice combination of station locations/RES etc. Kind of negates the point of having a massive PG galaxy if you encourage players to stay in one system their whole career.

CMDR CTCParadox

Enhancing the game further by making systems feel more personal with local flavor and related content and missions would be a good thing. If people want to hang around some systems for a while, I don't really have a problem with that, however...

Spoiler

...I'm sure the Great Galactic War will change all that to a degree. I suspect the Federation and Empire will eventually overlook their differences for mutual benefit when the Thargoids and Alliance become a threat to their entrenched grasp of power.

 

[DragoonKnight]

This comparison between an aircraft carrier and a federal corvette is a pointless one. The aircraft carrier is not a direct-combat vessel, by definition - it's an aircraft carrier. The corvette is a direct-combat vessel. A more accurate naval comparison would probably be an actual corvette. The carrier should perhaps be compared to the capital ships like the the Farragut, or the Imperial Majestic class.
Your claim that U.S Navy ships are faster than any civilian ships is also false. Naval ships prioritise longevity at sea over speed. There's no doubting the longevity of any ships in E. Get a fuel scoop, fit lasers - fly forever.
Find a fast naval vessel with a long range (in comparison to some long range naval vessels)?
And a naval vessel faster than a 'civilian' catamaran ferry of equivalent size?

If we are comparing a civilian catamaran type then a fair comparison is to that of a US Navy catamaran type. Otherwise you are just comparing different ship classes.
So here you go, 55 Knots. You wont find many ships, catamaran or not, faster than that. I know of just one civilian catamaran that size that can hit 58 knots. And when I say one, I mean they only built one ship.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sea_Fighter_(FSF-1)

And if the US Navy does not prioritize speed then why did the design spec for the LCS call for it to be able to haul ass at a minimum of 40 knots?
Why did the US Navy acquire the Algol class, despite the high operating cost, and convert it to military use if not for its speed? 33 Knots was damn good in 1982.
Why is the US Navy experimenting with trimaran hulls if not for the speed? Just accept the reality that speed and range have always been important in Naval warfare.

The need for speed and range does not change 2000 years in the future. Military vessels need to have range and speed that is not terrible. It makes no sense for the Corvette - a Federation Military Warship - to have less range, armor, and guns than the anaconda. But it can carry more cargo than the Anaconda.
How do any of those 4 things make any sense to you? I genuinely want to know.

 

[SheepDip82]

If we are comparing a civilian catamaran type then a fair comparison is to that of a US Navy catamaran type. Otherwise you are just comparing different ship classes.
So here you go, 55 Knots. You wont find many ships, catamaran or not, faster than that. I know of just one civilian catamaran that size that can hit 58 knots. And when I say one, I mean they only built one ship.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sea_Fighter_(FSF-1)

And if the US Navy does not prioritize speed then why did the design spec for the LCS call for it to be able to haul ass at a minimum of 40 knots?
Why did the US Navy acquire the Algol class, despite the high operating cost, and convert it to military use if not for its speed? 33 Knots was damn good in 1982.
Why is the US Navy experimenting with trimaran hulls if not for the speed? Just accept the reality that speed and range have always been important in Naval warfare.

The need for speed and range does not change 2000 years in the future. Military vessels need to have range and speed that is not terrible. It makes no sense for the Corvette - a Federation Military Warship - to have less range, armor, and guns than the anaconda. But it can carry more cargo than the Anaconda.
How do any of those 4 things make any sense to you? I genuinely want to know.

The FSF-1 isn't very large though, is it (about half the size of a typical destroyer)? Nor is it heavily gunned, or even - gunned...
I'm not suggesting that speed isn't a priority for some ships, or something desirable for all vessels - merely that when push comes to shove, unless the craft is specifically designed for an area or function where speed is more pressing that range/longevity/armour/armament generally come(s) first.

I can't explain why FD decided to stat the Corvette the way they did (why it is less armoured, yet slightly more manoeuvrable, and heavier - you could argue it is adequately gunned in comparison, trading 2L for 1H hard point). It has larger cargo capacity because it has larger internal compartments - something which might make sense in the future. And why it's classification is a "super heavy fighter", where as the Cutter and the Anaconda are both a super heavy multi-purpose.

I must admit I did guffaw quite loudly watching ObsidianAnt's waypoint 4/5 video last night, since there's a FedVette there.

But this isn't what we're discussing in this thread, so I'll stop derailing it.

 

[Zelos1983]

The need for speed and range does not change 2000 years in the future. Military vessels need to have range and speed that is not terrible. It makes no sense for the Corvette - a Federation Military Warship - to have less range, armor, and guns than the anaconda. But it can carry more cargo than the Anaconda.
How do any of those 4 things make any sense to you? I genuinely want to know.

A bit OT, but many navies are only there to defend the coasts, hence range is often not an issue.

Elite has many systems with local militia and authority vessels, that means that traversing the bubble is seldom needed. Even then, it probably matters little if a navy takes an hour longer to do so.
Speed matters mainly in combat outside of frameshift. And here we still have the big issue that thruster capabilities are locked and massively nerfed by the flight assist system, so it's not a matter of physical design. As long as this isn't fixed, the speed discussion is rather pointless in my view.

 

[Navigare Necesse Est]

Less jumps - less repetition.

 

[Jex =TE=]

Well, I'm tryin'. Thanks.


I think it's dumb because it's:

A) Off topic
B) Will never happen, considering the backlash we're seeing in trying to discuss the merits of simply increasing the jump range of a few select ships by a small percentage. Read your audience, man. It's up to both sides in a debate to try and progress the conversation. Going further to one extreme is counter-productive.



But it does make me look smart.
Haven't seen that movie in ages.


What? It affects me by my jumping 15Ly's instead of 10, pretty clearly? But I'd be on board with that...

Anyway - jump range is absolutely a balancing factor. It SHOULD be more difficult to get around with 350 tons of cargo. Likewise, it SHOULD be harder to get around with 350 tons of hull reinforcement. I do believe FD have been a little heavy handed in limiting the range of a few of the ships, however that is not the point of this thread. Now, more to the point of this thread, I think some other long-asked-for additions could circumvent that issue.

No you not getting it, still.

How does it affect BALANCE. I'm not interested how it affects you personally. As this is the 3rd time I've asked and you still can't I'm going to assume you don't know therefore why you said it's for balance to begin with I don't know.

So since it doesn't really matter, who cares if your ship does 10 ly or 20ly - at the end of the day, when you get into a system you're presented with exactly the same options you had in the last system give or take a CZ or 2.

 

[Zelos1983]

How does it affect BALANCE. I'm not interested how it affects you personally. As this is the 3rd time I've asked and you still can't I'm going to assume you don't know therefore why you said it's for balance to begin with I don't know.

Jump range is dependant on the ship's mass. Thus, there is a need to balance FTL speed and payload/armor/weapon systems. If you give ships free buffs, there really wouldn't be a need for pilots to compromise, wouldn't it?

BTW, I also like a ship with 100LY jump range, 10kt of cargo space, instaWin turreted weapon systems mounted on all hardpoints and neutronium armor. Plus, rainbow colored clouds should come out of the exhaust port to add to my enemies' humiliation.

 

[Jex =TE=]

This right here is a big problem in Elite. Really apart from CGs there is no need for combat ships to leave a system once they found a nice combination of station locations/RES etc. Kind of negates the point of having a massive PG galaxy if you encourage players to stay in one system their whole career.

CMDR CTCParadox

Given that all systems are pretty much exactly the same then you really only need 2 systems in ED. Everything that you can get in one system will pop up in another system. It's the same content, over and over.