Help me understand what is it you get to do after getting longer jump ranges.

[geoffrey.hdt]

What if we founded a pvp system. Something anarchy with a good outfitter. And advertised all PvP ers to home base there?

Sure, please do that and I cross fingers that it consistently attracts PvPeers the way Ch'i Lin CG attracted PvPeers last week.
As a remark, Anarchy or not (I take it you have the bounty system in mind) is the least of my concern. however some players carrying a "large" bounty may attract PvP bounty hunters.

Now I would still want some variety, like heading to a trade oriented CG and protect traders from griefers, as well as protect real pirates from bounty hunters. Or head to a combat oriented CG to get some good fights at the conflict zones...
Which is why I really wish this ship transfer feature (advertised on KickStarter as far as i remember) would get implemented. Hell, I would even be ready to pay $60 for an "extension" bringing this feature...

 

[GilliganTX]

No you not getting it, still.

How does it affect BALANCE. I'm not interested how it affects you personally. As this is the 3rd time I've asked and you still can't I'm going to assume you don't know therefore why you said it's for balance to begin with I don't know.

So since it doesn't really matter, who cares if your ship does 10 ly or 20ly - at the end of the day, when you get into a system you're presented with exactly the same options you had in the last system give or take a CZ or 2.

You literally asked me out right how a longer jump range would affect me...


Balance - If you want to defend a system, tank up.

If you want to strike out at another system, you need to take your fuel range into consideration and adapt accordingly. That's balance.


Giving with one hand, and taking with the other, is balance.


I'm not speaking to the quality or logic of using jump range to balance ships, but making combat ships cumbersome to travel with, while making less combat oriented ships easier to travel, is a form of balancing. That means that if you want to build a strike fighter, you need to build it with range considerations in mind.

Where that falls flat, I think, is that in PVP, people are hull tanking/scb tanking, so you really can't compete in anything but a fully combat fit ship.


It is balance. It's not good balance.

On a side note, I just read that the mount speed for Rogues in World of Warcraft will be reduced to half. After all, they do more damage, which needs to be balanced by letting them arrive late to raids.

I lol'd.

And that's exactly what I'm saying. Yeah, war ships have to have a draw-back for the sake of the game. I would "less cargo," but that's not what happened. FD hammered the jump range so that it takes twice as long to get somewhere, which is ridiculous. 20%, or even 30% longer, would be fine. 100% is heavy handed.

What if we founded a pvp system. Something anarchy with a good outfitter. And advertised all PvP ers to home base there?

Would they, though?

Consider how PVP tends to work in Elite - you have CG/barancels/n00b system, with defensless commanders not flying combat ships.

Que the griefers/gankers, destroying the ill-defended exploration/n00b ships.


Then you get the influx of white knights to come and...




So you'd need some baby seals in that "PVP" system for "Pirates" to come club.

 

[geoffrey.hdt]

Sure, please do that and I cross fingers that it consistently attracts PvPeers the way Ch'i Lin CG attracted PvPeers last week.

EDIT: There are already a few systems like what you describe actually...Gende is high tech, has a hazardous RES, in ALD merit grind territory...
...but while you may indeed find a lot of commanders over there (when there is no interesting CGs going on), most of the players are carebear and really don't know how to fight. Hell, they even insult you for disturbing them while they were honestly bounty farming...sad, hilarious and unchallenging...

 

[Ziggy Stardust]

never mind

 

[Jex =TE=]

You literally asked me out right how a longer jump range would affect me...


Balance - If you want to defend a system, tank up.

If you want to strike out at another system, you need to take your fuel range into consideration and adapt accordingly. That's balance.


Giving with one hand, and taking with the other, is balance.


I'm not speaking to the quality or logic of using jump range to balance ships, but making combat ships cumbersome to travel with, while making less combat oriented ships easier to travel, is a form of balancing. That means that if you want to build a strike fighter, you need to build it with range considerations in mind.

Where that falls flat, I think, is that in PVP, people are hull tanking/scb tanking, so you really can't compete in anything but a fully combat fit ship.


It is balance. It's not good balance.

No I asked you how does it balance, just go back and read where I said that. I also asked how it affected you and in case I want to go to a system and attack it limiting my jump distance so I have to make 10 jumps instead of 5 "balances the gameplay"

ROFLMAO!!!!

I have to hand it to you to have gasped that straw and come up with about the only explanation you could. I'm not buying that at all btw and I'm pretty sure the Devs aren't giving that as their reason. I'm struggling to think how it balances the game that we get to our destination 2 minutes later or sooner to attack a system and somehow, making trading ships have longer distances balances that out somehow.

Surely if we're all going to battle, we're all in combat ships which entirely negates your point if we're all suffering shorter jump ranges. having 50 ly ranges each would be imbalanced somehow?

 

[Asp Explorer]

Not everyone wants to play pew-pew. I don't fly combat ships, I find them extremely unappealing.

 

[GilliganTX]

No I asked you how does it balance, just go back and read where I said that. I also asked how it affected you and in case I want to go to a system and attack it limiting my jump distance so I have to make 10 jumps instead of 5 "balances the gameplay"

ROFLMAO!!!!

I have to hand it to you to have gasped that straw and come up with about the only explanation you could. I'm not buying that at all btw and I'm pretty sure the Devs aren't giving that as their reason. I'm struggling to think how it balances the game that we get to our destination 2 minutes later or sooner to attack a system and somehow, making trading ships have longer distances balances that out somehow.

Surely if we're all going to battle, we're all in combat ships which entirely negates your point if we're all suffering shorter jump ranges. having 50 ly ranges each would be imbalanced somehow?

No, you asked me,

What does me being able to jump 10 ly's instead of 15 ly's have any affect on you?

Anyway...




How is looking at the game stats grasping at straws? It's very obviously a balancing tactic and that was the intention. If you can't understand that, well, it's not my failing.



Okay, so say you're in a fully combat fit ship, you made those choices, I made some compromises in my load out for the sake of range, and speed, therefore I can get to the combat zone first, and start establishing a lead. Where as you come in later, but because you are more combat fit, can accrue kills faster.

That is a balancing mechanic. If you could get there equally fast, there is no point in making a long range fighter.

Now, I don't think you should have to get there as late as the game makes you with its current jump stats, so I don't really get why you're trying to argue with me except for the sake of arguement. We're both pro-less jumps for combat fit ships.

 

[Kenaz]

EDIT: There are already a few systems like what you describe actually...Gende is high tech, has a hazardous RES, in ALD merit grind territory...
...but while you may indeed find a lot of commanders over there (when there is no interesting CGs going on), most of the players are carebear and really don't know how to fight. Hell, they even insult you for disturbing them while they were honestly bounty farming...sad, hilarious and unchallenging...

FDev prolly needs to help push it forward. Archon Delanie (sp)/Kumo crew needs some love... maybe this is one way to do that. Find a system in Kumo territory near the center of the bubble (haven't checked map) and sponsor some smuggling and PvP CGs (many a tournament of some kind? Something with a greater tiers of Top X pilots vs top % pilots) and help advertise it on Galnet as a PvP system... won't get the seal clubbing though. For that maybe Gende might be better. I dunno. Either way, I feel like if players band together for something like that, FDev should help establish a 'PVP system'.

 

[GilliganTX]

FDev prolly needs to help push it forward. Archon Delanie (sp)/Kumo crew needs some love... maybe this is one way to do that. Find a system in Kumo territory near the center of the bubble (haven't checked map) and sponsor some smuggling and PvP CGs (many a tournament of some kind? Something with a greater tiers of Top X pilots vs top % pilots) and help advertise it on Galnet as a PvP system... won't get the seal clubbing though. For that maybe Gende might be better. I dunno. Either way, I feel like if players band together for something like that, FDev should help establish a 'PVP system'.

I actually really like the idea of dedicated PVP zones, like in ESO, but restricting PVP interaction doesn't really fit the elite frame-work. Anyway.


I would love some sort of smuggling competition to test myself.

 

[Kenaz]

I actually really like the idea of dedicated PVP zones, like in ESO, but restricting PVP interaction doesn't really fit the elite frame-work. Anyway.
I would love some sort of smuggling competition to test myself.

Maybe not "restrict" but all the usual warning signs. Ship debris, News in nearby systems saying another "ship" went missing in the PvP system. Galnet article saying President Hudson declares X system a "blackout no fly zone" etc etc. Enter with your own peril. Anyone jumping into the system immediately sees a destroyed space station. Pirate flags. System authorities in nearby systems broadcasting/warning newbies not to go to the PvP system in local. etc etc

 

[GilliganTX]

Maybe not "restrict" but all the usual warning signs. Ship debris, News in nearby systems saying another "ship" went missing in the PvP system. Galnet article saying President Hudson declares X system a "blackout no fly zone" etc etc. Enter with your own peril. Anyone jumping into the system immediately sees a destroyed space station. Pirate flags. System authorities in nearby systems broadcasting/warning newbies not to go to the PvP system in local. etc etc

I like it.

Ties back to making individual systems feel more, individual.

 

[Kenaz]

I like it.

Ties back to making individual systems feel more, individual.

Is this something multiple people would be interested in? I'm not really a PvPer (or 'open'-er), but FD generally supports CGs and community based lore if there's enough people in support of certain ideas.

 

[WR3ND]

Is this something multiple people would be interested in? I'm not really a PvPer (or 'open'-er), but FD generally supports CGs and community based lore if there's enough people in support of certain ideas.

I don't really know why anyone wouldn't be, unless they think it would detract from other priorities of things they'd like implemented. I don't know that they have to be community goal (one time events with some kind of outcome) related specifically to accomplish this though, but it's an option as well.

 

[d8veh]

This right here is a big problem in Elite. Really apart from CGs there is no need for combat ships to leave a system once they found a nice combination of station locations/RES etc. Kind of negates the point of having a massive PG galaxy if you encourage players to stay in one system their whole career.

CMDR CTCParadox

I guess you're not a bounty hunter then. When RES farming, it's only a matter of time until you shoot the wrong guy, or an innocent ship rams you and explodes. Either of those puts a bounty on you, so you have to leave that system for a week.

 

[CMDR BOSLEY]

Why not pick a system you really like (for whatever reason) and spend your game time there so you don't have to spend 70% of your playtime jumping?

What is there in other systems that you need to jump to?

The answer to that is simple your friends, unless you don't have any that play this, and them there is the other thing called endless wonder and exitement.

 

[CMDR BOSLEY]

Is it a problem with explorer ships? trade ships? combat ships? all of the above?

Its a problem not limited to a ship type, its when ever your friends and you want to meet up and you're all scatterd about the galaxy. Yes its a big place everyone know that but its hard to not think lore wise, these supepowers that are in a constant state of cold war and active conflict would not be in an arms race that would not include advanced fsd tech. Sirius corp would be all over that. In gameplay sense, being able to play eith your friends and accomplish shared goals is fun. Getting together quicker would be great,if not its not the end of the world its just a game at the end if the day.

They wouldnt need to increase jump distance to fix this either just allow the fsd injection to override the fuel consupmtion limit on your fsd and let you do a large jump equal to the distance of how many jump you could make on fastest route setting minus one jump so you still have fuel left.

 

[Kenaz]

Its a problem not limited to a ship type, its when ever your friends and you want to meet up and you're all scatterd about the galaxy. Yes its a big place everyone know that but its hard to not think lore wise, these supepowers that are in a constant state of cold war and active conflict would not be in an arms race that would not include advanced fsd tech. Sirius corp would be all over that. In gameplay sense, being able to play eith your friends and accomplish shared goals is fun. Getting together quicker would be great,if not its not the end of the world its just a game at the end if the day.

They wouldnt need to increase jump distance to fix this either just allow the fsd injection to override the fuel consupmtion limit on your fsd and let you do a large jump equal to the distance of how many jump you could make on fastest route setting minus one jump so you still have fuel left.

Fuel consumption is based on Distance^2 or Distance^3 depending on your FSD class, and combat ships in particular min max combat by minimizing FSD and Fuel Tank size. so your idea won't solve the problem most combat pilots have.

Other than Rare Trade and CGs though, most anywhere in the bubble is going to have everything most people want in any given area. a decent trade route, decent missions at a populated station, HazRes, etc etc. Is there a reason why a group of friends can't just pick a spot and agree to stay within a 50ly radius or it's on them to make their way back to you? Back in the Ultima Online and GemstoneIII days on dialup, that's what we did. Occasionally, we'd all pack up and agree to move together, for flavor (Wehnimer's Landing to Icemule Trace‎ or Teras Ilse) and these journeys could take hours: especially to travel safetly, but ED space hardly has any flavor. Empire territory really doesn't feel that different from Federation.

 

[Asp Explorer]

The answer to that is simple your friends, unless you don't have any that play this, and them there is the other thing called endless wonder and exitement.

I have friends that play this game. My GF plays it too. That doesn't mean we have to base our gameplay around each other - actually I find that idea rather abhorrent.