Newcomer / Intro Help with joystick choice

baconboy

B
Hello.

I have been playing elite dangerous for some time now and i am considering getting a hotas setup to enhance my gameplay.

For those of you who have played with both keyboard+mouse and hotas, is it worth it, does it do alot?

Then which setup to chose, i have my eyes on 3 choices, the Logitech Saitek 52X normal or pro. Or the Thrustmaster HOTAS Warthog(+ maybe a set of seperate pedals).
My main concern is this:

1. First off yaw control, the warthog does not let you twist the joystick to control yaw, so i am wondering how important this is, on some forums they say many dont want twist on their sticks since it harms precision, is this true?.

2. Getting the warthog and seperate pedals is quite abit more expensive than just the logitech setup, is it really worth the extra money, will i be able to become a better and more effective pilot with it? Will two pilots of equal skill have an advantage over the other with one setup over the other? Or is the user experience difference big enough to justify the extra cash?

3. X52 normal or pro? my research has shown the pro is slightly better constructed but otherwise they are largely the same?

Ultimately i would like to go with the cheap choice but if it makes a big difference i'd rather save up and get the good stuff. Also would suck to get the X52 only to be disappointed and then be out the money until i can afford the better one.

Would like input from anyone with experience with those setups.

Update: i should add i have nerve damage on my left hand, 50% feeling on my fingers and limited movement of fingers, this is one of the reasons also i consider the hotas setup, using wasd is clumpsy and slow on the keyboard but gripping the throttle control and moving my hand forward and backwards will not be a problem at all. But operating the buttons and stuff on the throttle will be slow, so important combat controls will have to all be on the right hand.
 
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Hooplah

Hooplah
Welcome to the Forum!

Your questions have been answered 1000 times here so a little searching will provide lots of info...and more confusion. Here's the basics.

Some who play with keyboard and mouse say it is more accurate especially in PVP. Those who play with a Hotas say it is more immersive and enjoyable playing the game. These are just opinions.

1. Yaw control is all about immersion. On the joystick it is more precise and faster versus foot pedals into the immersion. Some may not agree. But maybe that is just me with my feet doesn't talk a lot with my brain. So a 12 hour binge playing ED joystick yaw is much better allowing your body to move around in hopefully a comfortable chair without your feet having to be in one place.

2. See number 1.

3. Neither X52 normal or pro. Hotas technology had moved on.

Personally without costing a fortune I would go with the VKB Gladiator NXT joystick for very precise movements including yaw and other features. Here is a post when I bought it. If you can then come up with a Logitech X-56 throttle designed perfectly for all the many bindings in ED then you win. After installing the VKB sell the X-56 joystick on eBay. It wears out fast so some will be looking to purchase a new one.

Still with nerve damage to your left hand look at the throttle and see if it will work or not. It is hands down the best option interfacing with Elite Dangerous and all those so many bindings. A Warthog throttle is designed to fly a Warhog not even a basic Hauler in ED. I'm a Hotas nerd who bought a lot of them both with ED and more importantly X-Plane 11. I have a lightly used Warthog and several others I could sell cheap!

Regards

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Faded Glory

Faded Glory
In my experience using a good HOTAS makes a difference. The emphasis here is on 'good' (at least it was for me when I started with HOTAS) as the precision of the joystick makes a huge difference. Basically I went from having to use gimballed weapons as my accuracy was rubbish to suddenly finding I could use fixed weapons very effectively, and I really don't think that I changed all that much! :)

So, to a point, the cost will reflect the quality of what you buy. I don't have direct experience with either of the ones you are looking at, but I would say that they are likely to improve your play (as well as feel more 'immersed' when you are flying). I prefer to use twist on the stick rather than pedals, so I have always gone for sticks that have that.

So all I'll add here is that if you are worried that such an investment might not pay off as it were, you could look at trying the Thrustmaster T.16000M FCS HOTAS as it's pretty cheap and the stick is very accurate so you'll be able to figure out if the investment is worth it. Also the throttle (TCWS) is pretty good and has a lot of well placed hats and buttons although if you don't like using your left hand for that maybe that won't help much. However, and this is important, the stick has (had?) a flaw that the twist / yaw would at some point stop working as it's a pretty cheap design and while it's possible to take the stick apart and clean it, in my experience it never lasted. I went through three of them (sticks), but at least you can buy the stick separately and if you wait until they are on sale they can be pretty inexpensive. Eventually I got tired of this poor quality build and now I use a VKB Gunfighter, but still use my original TCWS throttle which has lasted ages.

And on that note, I'd suggest you take a look at both VKB and Virpil stuff. Can be very expensive, but very well made (I only have experience with VKB), and I think both companies have at least one moderately priced offering. They are in a league of their own quality wise IMHO.

Hope this helps and doesn't muddy the waters as I realize I haven't directly answered your questions. :)
 

Hooplah

Hooplah
I also have a lightly used Thrustmaster T.16000M FCS HOTAS I'll sell cheap. I agree with Faded Glory and also it does have a lot of binding options on the throttle for ED more than others and is the lowest entry cost to explore it. A good throttle. But the more aggressive it is used the shorter the joystick will last. You decide.
 

DaggerSnake

DaggerSnake
baconboy said:
Hello.

I have been playing elite dangerous for some time now and i am considering getting a hotas setup to enhance my gameplay.

For those of you who have played with both keyboard+mouse and hotas, is it worth it, does it do alot?

Then which setup to chose, i have my eyes on 3 choices, the Logitech Saitek 52X normal or pro. Or the Thrustmaster HOTAS Warthog(+ maybe a set of seperate pedals).
My main concern is this:

1. First off yaw control, the warthog does not let you twist the joystick to control yaw, so i am wondering how important this is, on some forums they say many dont want twist on their sticks since it harms precision, is this true?.

2. Getting the warthog and seperate pedals is quite abit more expensive than just the logitech setup, is it really worth the extra money, will i be able to become a better and more effective pilot with it? Will two pilots of equal skill have an advantage over the other with one setup over the other? Or is the user experience difference big enough to justify the extra cash?

3. X52 normal or pro? my research has shown the pro is slightly better constructed but otherwise they are largely the same?

Ultimately i would like to go with the cheap choice but if it makes a big difference i'd rather save up and get the good stuff. Also would suck to get the X52 only to be disappointed and then be out the money until i can afford the better one.

Would like input from anyone with experience with those setups.

Update: i should add i have nerve damage on my left hand, 50% feeling on my fingers and limited movement of fingers, this is one of the reasons also i consider the hotas setup, using wasd is clumpsy and slow on the keyboard but gripping the throttle control and moving my hand forward and backwards will not be a problem at all. But operating the buttons and stuff on the throttle will be slow, so important combat controls will have to all be on the right hand.
Click to expand...
You'll probably get a lot of opinion pieces on this topic, but I think a majority will agree that a HOTAS really adds to the immersion and general enjoyment of flying a spaceship in Elite. Combine it with VR or even a Track IR or other head tracker and you'll never go back.

I've personally use an X-52 Pro since game launch. I don't have thousands of hours logged into it to the point of failure which I'm sure it would. I have about 600 hours of play on it and it's still going strong.

One of the things I really like about it is that the original stick model in the game was built on it so when using a VR or even a track IR that immersion is one step elevated. The controls at the ship helm look like the controls on my desk. It's a small detail that wouldn't matter much to most, but I like it.
 

metatheurgist

metatheurgist
Using a HOTAS is great for immersion, does also feel better than flying by KB imo.

I'll answer 3 since no one else has. Yes they are largely the same but the pro has better construction, but as pointed out they can be unreliable.
 

baconboy

B
Thanks alot for the reply guys.

I have decided against buying the expensive warthog one, i want something roughly in the price range of the x52 pro. The vkb gladiator nxt could be it but i want a throttle aswell and buying the x56 just for the throttle is too much.

Also have decided on a full 3d stick as well, i agree now that i think about it keeping your feet in one place for pedals would get annoying.

@Hooplah if not the x52 pro then can you make a recommendation for something better in roughly same price range that has a complete setup? or throttle and joystick seperately
 

aRJay

aRJay
I started and failed to fly successfully using Keyboard and Mouse, as soon as my secondhand X52 Pro arrived I could fly my ship almost without thought.

I know you aren’t looking at the Warthog now but a point against it to me was size and weight it is a massive device.

The X52s are almost identical in terms of layout but there are binding differences and the Pro doesn’t have the cheap silver plastic look.

I am still using an X52 Pro, not the same one, but do dream occasionally of getting one of the newer high end combos for their precision and higher button counts.
 

Fnord Velkor

Fnord Velkor
baconboy said:
.....
I have decided against buying the expensive warthog one, i want something roughly in the price range of the x52 pro. The vkb gladiator nxt could be it but i want a throttle aswell and buying the x56 just for the throttle is too much.
....
Click to expand...

I have the VKB Gladiator EVO Space Combat and it is really good. It does have a control on the base you could use as a throttle if you want. I use it with a CH Pro Throttle to give me a HOTAS system but that is just super-stupid price at the moment maybe a Thrustmaster TWCS - Throttle (£90) would be good alternative.
 

Hooplah

Hooplah
baconboy said:
@Hooplah if not the x52 pro then can you make a recommendation for something better in roughly same price range that has a complete setup? or throttle and joystick separately
Click to expand...

So definitely the VKB Gladiator NXT 'Space Combar Edition' and the Thrustmaster TWCS throttle purchased separately would be an awesome setup. Additional bindings would be on the keyboard or perhaps a add-on gamepad. This might cost a little more but will last for years. I went through three Saitek/Logitech X-55/56 joysticks wearing the joystick out. A year plus with the VKB joystick and it still feels brand new!

I have an old Saitek X-55 throttle I'll give you if you pay the shipping. I don't remember any problems with it but it has been a long time. I'm in the USA. Could get very expensive depending upon where you live as in say Nigeria, Africa! PM me with your email address if interested.

Then I've seen a used X-52 Pro on eBay for $50.00. When Elite Dangerous was released in December 2014 Frontier was offering a deal on them...decisions, decisions,,,:)

Regards
 
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Dragsham

Dragsham
The X56 in VR
Controls the ship...the buggy and on foot. Only use the mouse look on foot combined with the throttle. I'm left handed so lt works well..
But the principle reason why l have an X56 is because the hotas has 5 hats! Yes 5.
And a mode switch so u can flick it and all your buttons are rebindable. That's x3 buttons.!!
Only drawback is the x56 stick is a bit too long for small/medium hand size.
I use rudder pedals.
I've bound the twist action as rudder too but hardly use it.
It's the most comfortable stick n throttle for me in VR bear in mind l cannot see it hehehe.
 

GJ51

GJ51
A lot depends on your commitment to using HOTAS for the long term.

I also have damage to my left hand and had multiple surgeries that did some nerve damage and has severely limited my range of motion. Ironically. the curve of my fingers just about fits my throttle almost perfectly.

For quality, dependability, availability, and accuracy the Thrustmaster Warthog combined with good rudder pedals is hard to beat.

In any event, if your serious about HOTAS you definitely want an option that uses Hall effect v> potentiometers. Pots wear out rather quickly in comparison and are nowhere near as precise.

If I had to buy new gear today, I'd go with Warthogs and MFG Crosswinds pedals.

Pricey? Yes

Worth it? Only if you plan on flying HOTAS for several more years.

Competitive advantage? Probably not so much. Some of the best PvP cmdrs I've gone up against were using kybd and mouse. Experience and quality of setup are probably bigger factors than the hardware used.
 

Hooplah

Hooplah
Dragsham said:
The X56 in VR
Controls the ship...the buggy and on foot. Only use the mouse look on foot combined with the throttle. I'm left handed so lt works well...
Click to expand...
I'm also left handed. I played games for years with a Saitek Cyborg EVO ambidextrous joystick but finally took the plunge going into the right hand world. Now my brain cannot comprehend using a joystick left handed. Works out great as my left thinking brain is fast on the X-56 throttle and all those bindings. We have an advantage over all those right handed people! :)
 

Hooplah

Hooplah
GJ51 said:
...For quality, dependability, availability, and accuracy the Thrustmaster Warthog combined with good rudder pedals is hard to beat...
Click to expand...
Yes, I agree that the Warthog is one of the best and the most reliable HOTAS ever invented. But it was designed to actually fly an A-10 Warthog in a flight sim. Compromises are required getting it to work in Elite Dangerous where dedicated controllers match up perfectly. Besides that cold metal joystick wants me to wear a glove using it to keep warm.

A player only buying a Warthog with rudder pedals would love it playing ED. But then they are not an idiot like me buying all the best HOTAS and pedals for the PC and the PS4, testing them and know the differences. I have a lot of HOTAS I'll sell cheap!

Then if Thrustmaster redesigned the Warthog with dedicated programming, new switches and bindings that ED and general flight sims love no other HOTAS on the planet could come close to it. Maybe call it the ED-10 Anaconda! :)
 
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Ashnak

Ashnak
Hooplah said:
Then if Thrustmaster redesigned the Warthog with dedicated programming, new switches and bindings that ED and general flight sims love no other HOTAS on the planet could come close to it. Maybe call it the ED-10 Anaconda! :)
Click to expand...
I've heard that some people were able to plug a Virpil (VKB?) stick onto a Warthog base... I mean, if you absolutely need a Warthog base. Otherwise, you could probably clobber someone to death with the Virpil cams and still use them afterwards.
 

Ashnak

Ashnak
The TWCS is the best you can get for that money - anything better is also more expensive 🤷‍♂️ . It does its job and has that additional analogue stick for the directional thrusters.
As for the stickyness: you can adjust (sort of) the push resistance through a spring tensioner, and you really should disassemble the case and grease the rails, makes a world of difference. Poison of choice here seems to be some stuff called "Nyogel 767A" (Google is your friend here), but since that was about as easy to find as hen's teeth here in Germany, I just used a generic (good quality) lubricant1.

As for leverage - no, you don't. Greased and with the friction turned down, you can (I could) move it just with your fingertips. No force involved. The large head just has two functions:
  • handrest
  • space to mount all the additional buttons
Getting a strong grip to use a lot of force isn't on the list.

1LiquiMoly Schmierfix. A general lubricant for, among other stuff, glide rails at human ambient temperature
 

Fnord Velkor

Fnord Velkor
baconboy said:
I have a throttle question now, this TWCS throttle that is recommended is it not a bad choice? i would think it would be good to have a raised lever in order to have leverage when adjusting it, but this one is a flat slider.
Click to expand...

FYI - the CH Pro Throttle which I use is a slider too. Yes the big expensive throttles are levers moving through an arc but slider works just fine. (I have never used the TWCS.)
 
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