Newcomer / Intro Help with TARGET?

[johntarr]

I just picked up a copy of ED recently and really liked it, so I got a TM Warthog to go along with it, and I'm excited to customize the controller a bit with TARGET.

Unfortunately, I'm running into some trouble and could use help if there's anyone out there who knows TARGET well.

I'm using the two attached files that I found online as a basis, and when I look at the Device Analyzer, it shows that moving flaps to down triggers button 39, which is what I expect based on the tmc file. However, in ED, when I try to bind to flaps down, it doesn't register until I move the flaps down and back up, and even then it's picking up as JOY22 or 23 (I forget which at the moment).

One other thing I noticed, if it helps to troubleshoot: When I tried following the minimum viable example in the TARGET documentation, it said that no buttons or axes should work in the Device Analyzer until they are first mapped. However, buttons and axes seemed to work fine even before I had mapped anything.

Any help would be greatly appreciated.

 

[Chris Simon]

AFAIK the flaps on Warthog are essentially two buttons, function-wise and ED recognizes it as such - namely as "button 22" and "button 23".
What do you want it to do in Elite? (meaning, which function are you trying to bind?)

Also this could help you understand how the flaps switch works and what can you do with it

 

[johntarr]

Found a discord hotas server and apparently Elite doesn't support the full Direct X spec where you can have more than 32 buttons, so that's the issue. I think I've got some workarounds now, but what I'm trying to do is have it so that when I put the flaps button down, landing gear goes down, and when I move it back to the middle, landing gear goes back up.

Currently, I have to flip it down and back up to get it to go down, and then down and back up again to get landing gear up.

 

[Ashnak]

That would require some workaround, as ED only has one button to toggle the landing gear. I never used TARGET, but AHK (AutoHotKey) might be able to do this. Don't get fooled by the name and description - it's not limited to keyboards.
You may still run into problems, though, when you lose synchronisation. Then "switch up" will be "gears down" and vice versa.

 

[Para Handy]

Found a discord hotas server and apparently Elite doesn't support the full Direct X spec where you can have more than 32 buttons, so that's the issue. I think I've got some workarounds now, but what I'm trying to do is have it so that when I put the flaps button down, landing gear goes down, and when I move it back to the middle, landing gear goes back up.

Currently, I have to flip it down and back up to get it to go down, and then down and back up again to get landing gear up.

It is nothing to do with the DX version - it is the type of switches on the 'hog throttle. There are countless stories on the net about this.

 

[johntarr]

It is nothing to do with the DX version - it is the type of switches on the 'hog throttle. There are countless stories on the net about this.

I'm able to get TARGET to output DX button presses for the 'off' state of the warthog switches, and ED sees them all right up until button 33. If I create a virtual joystick for the additional buttons and keep them under 33, ED seems to work just fine. That, forum discussions, and the discord all lead me to believe it's an ED issue with using an old version of DX and not an issue with the warthog itself.

See some discussion here as well

I've been wrong before, not trying to argue with you, just posting in case it helps others

 

[Para Handy]

I'm able to get TARGET to output DX button presses for the 'off' state of the warthog switches, and ED sees them all right up until button 33. If I create a virtual joystick for the additional buttons and keep them under 33, ED seems to work just fine. That, forum discussions, and the discord all lead me to believe it's an ED issue with using an old version of DX and not an issue with the warthog itself.

See some discussion here as well

I've been wrong before, not trying to argue with you, just posting in case it helps others

Yeah there is a problem with Elite only using old DX but I never heard of the 'hog running out of buttons - the virpil, yes, but not the hog as I was sure it only went up to button 32, so my apologies for my memory being faulty. The usual issue with E D on the hog is the momentary action switches.

EDIT - Here is the image from when I tried my mate's 'hog on E D some years ago - hence my thought of 32 buttons on the throttle:





P.S. I have been wrong more times than I can count.

 

[johntarr]

Yeah there is a problem with Elite only using old DX but I never heard of the 'hog running out of buttons - the virpil, yes, but not the hog as I was sure it only went up to button 32, so my apologies for my memory being faulty. The usual issue with E D on the hog is the momentary action switches.

EDIT - Here is the image from when I tried my mate's 'hog on E D some years ago - hence my thought of 32 buttons on the throttle:


View attachment 166968


P.S. I have been wrong more times than I can count.

I'm with you now. I think we're saying the same thing. It's got enough buttons for the basic controller, but I was trying to map basically both states of the toggle switches (on and off). That way with things like the ship lights, I could map the primary control to on and secondary to off so it works without having to flip it up then back down again, if that makes sense. Thanks for the replies!

 

[Clicker]

Hi @johntarr ,

I use keyboard keys mapped to the buttons and switches on my warthog via the MapKey() statement in TARGET Script.
I do not use the DX buttons at all as I need many more than 32 in my script.

Here's an example of what you are trying to achieve:

  MapKey(&Throttle, FLAPD, PULSE+DX39); \\ Toggle Landing gear
  MapKeyR(&Throttle, FLAPD, PULSE+DX39); \\ Toggle Landing gear

The issue you may face is tracking the switch position against the in game setting (ie Gear down or up)
The only way to ensure it's always right, is to read and process the 'Flags' key value in status.json (inside the journal folder)
However, some advanced coding is required to accomplish this.

I get around this by using keyboard keys.
I bind 'L' to landing gear in game and use.

  MapKey(&Throttle, FLAPD, PULSE+'L'); \\ Toggle Landing gear
  MapKeyR(&Throttle, FLAPD, PULSE+'L'); \\ Toggle Landing gear

That way, if they get out of sync...I just hit 'L' on the keyboard.

Hope this helps.

Clicker

 

[Hooplah]

I found the Warthog joystick very precise and never needed the Target software to dial it in. The problem was that it was designed to fly an A-10 warthog in X-Plane and the throttle buttons were never designed to accommodate ED controls. Nor does the joystick have rudder twist thus one needs rudder pedals or using some hat to do the same. If Thrustmaster ever added rudder twist to the Warthog joystick it would be hands down the only joystick anyone would purchase to fly in ED. Meanwhile the Logitech X-56 throttle is so much better then the Thrustmaster version. Either way no profile software is required playing ED. It just gets in the way.

For those using rudder pedals it is great. But playing ED for 12 hours I tend to move around in my seat a lot. Rudder pedals don't like this.

Regards

 

[Clicker]

@Hooplah ,

Very true...you do not need TARGET...and if owners do not run a profile or TARGET script then they have access to 32DX buttons and 8 axis available for each of the Throttle and Stick.

My personal preference, is to use TARGET Script, because I wanted fancy PIP control and be able to adjust the joystick curves on the fly whenever I use FA-OFF.
I then spent countless hours learning TARGET script and kept adding more and more functionality to improve immersion...which, for me, it does.
My biggest issue is that I keep coming up with more ideas for functions and I spend more time scripting than I do flying!

Clicker

 

[Para Handy]

.......... Nor does the joystick have rudder twist thus one needs rudder pedals or using some hat to do the same. If Thrustmaster ever added rudder twist to the Warthog joystick it would be hands down the only joystick anyone would purchase to fly in ED. ............

Just a FYI - You don't need rudder pedals. I didn't like my mate's Warthog and much prefer my CHPro Fighterstick (and Throttle) - that stick is also sans twist but using my rudder pedals in E D really messed with my muscle memory in flight simulators. So - the solution I use (which can be used for the 'hog too) is to map the stick pinky button to a push-to-hold "Yaw to Roll" - so that the x axis gives yaw control when that button is held in - fore and aft of the mitre switch gives a digital yaw step normally or roll step when pinky button held. Sounds complicated but it is remarkably easy to get used to and works really well.

 

[johntarr]

@Clicker - It looks like you got TARGET to read status.json. Did you / could you post that code somewhere?

 

[Clicker]

@johntarr ,

A very early version of my status.json code can be found buried in Aussiedroids thread.

Release - Aussiedroid's Enhanced Thrustmaster Warthog Script

Hey, just curious how i would run this script in the normal UI instead of the script editor. Im still quite new to target.

forums.frontier.co.uk

It is a bit ugly but works and can be used as food for thought.
Take a look and happy to answer any queries, here, or if you prefer, PM me.

I have since learned much more about TARGET script and c/c++ in general since I wrote that post and have come a much longer way to mastering how to use variables and strings properly.
(TARGET is based on a cut-down version of c but doesn't follow the conventions strictly)
Due to this, I am currently rewriting my own personal script from scratch and around the ability to read status.json as I use the 'Flags' key extensively

When I'm finished, I'll consider posting on the forum...probably in the same area as the example script in my signature.

Cheers
Clicker

 

[Clicker]

Actually @johntarr, by all means check out the link in my post above, but looking at that code I wrote a year ago, and knowing what I now know...it's a piece of crap even though it works.

I'll look to publish a bit of a tutorial style post on reading status.json in the Newcomers/Guide and Tutorials section hopefully sometime in the next week (when I get some time).

Cheers
Clicker

 

[johntarr]

@Clicker Thanks for the replies. I'll check out your old code and am looking forward to seeing what you've got new.