Modes Hey, anybody remember when we were asking for an official PvE mode?

[Rubbernuke]

And I consider that to be revisionist history on the part of Sandro, who has also moved on to another project. I see zero evidence that Powerplay was designed, in any way, for PvP.

Until the actual design of Powerplay changes, I see no reason not to invoke death of the author... or in this case, transfer of the Dev.

Then you've gone against FD directly there, saying you know better than they do- until they say otherwise we can only go on what they say.

But people won’t be in the same “mode,” and unless Frontier changes their networking solution, they never will be. Geography, internet provider, hardware at both ends as well as between them, and even someone at home watching Netflix, can all affect instancing.

The kind of game you’re describing requires a different networking solution than peer-to-peer.

A vanishingly low probability might as well be zero. You need better odds than that to justify a major change like that, especially if you’re going to drive away a substantial fraction of your playerbase.

Open PP is not CQC, its opportunistic and situational team based combat and logistics. If the chance is above zero for meeting a lethal player you will have to respond in a different way than now via min / max efficiency builds. And frankly its certain groups behaviour in exploiting flaws that are driving players away, not the fact it will / might be in Open. This is not a Richthofen v Mannock thing, its simply having random groups against other random groups.

 

[Robert Maynard]

Then you've gone against FD directly there, saying you know better than they do- until they say otherwise we can only go on what they say.

Frontier would seem to have gone against themselves - by, in the first instance, implementing Powerplay in all three game modes, leaving it that way for three years, then coming back and saying that it had been meant to be a PvP feature all along.

Pan-modal implementation cannot have been an accident - especially given that DBOBE commented in a Powerplay AMA specifically mentioning players in Solo.

 

[Bob Lighthouse]

Except for the fact that even running materials is PVP in that context.

 

[Robert Maynard]

If PvP includes engaging in gameplay with no chance *at all* of PvP combat....

.... and if PvP includes that then the BGS, Factions, CGs could be considered to be PvP - with no PvP combat required as they are available in all game modes, for all players.

 

[Darkfyre99]

Then you've gone against FD directly there, saying you know better than they do- until they say otherwise we can only go on what they say.

Not Frontier Developments, just one of the developers, who backpedaled so hard on PPOO that I’m surprised the chain didn’t jump off the wheel completely.

Provide me with quotes from Michael Brookes or David Braben when Powerplay debuted, saying that Powerplay was all about the PvP, then I’ll change my opinion on that matter.

Open PP is not CQC, its opportunistic and situational team based combat and logistics. If the chance is above zero for meeting a lethal player you will have to respond in a different way than now via min / max efficiency builds. And frankly its certain groups behaviour in exploiting flaws that are driving players away, not the fact it will / might be in Open. This is not a Richthofen v Mannock thing, its simply having random groups against other random groups.

Well, you’re right about Powerplay being about team-based logistics, at least.

 

[Jockey79]

Let's not overlook details.

No, let's not;

https://youtu.be/52kOyADxK5E?t=2895

Let's also not forget Sandro has been the only Dev to talk about this, because you mention PvP in front of other Devs and they laugh on live stream.

I'll add the video as soon as I find the file I stored it, always good for a giggle

 

[Mouse]

Three is better than nine, and from what I see there are players for powers across all platforms to oppose each other directly.

No three is NOT better than nine... screwing anyone over and removing gameplay from them to only benefit those in certain modes is wrong... Why do you think I don't say PVP needs to be utterly removed from the game... BECAUSE IT WOULD BE WRONG...

 

[Bob Lighthouse]

No, let's not;

https://youtu.be/52kOyADxK5E?t=2895

Let's also not forget Sandro has been the only Dev to talk about this, because you mention PvP in front of other Devs and they laugh on live stream.

I'll add the video as soon as I find the file I stored it, always good for a giggle

What is your point?

I've never been on live stream and I fail to see what your anecdote would accomplish.

If you're suggesting Sandro was being disingenuous with "we" you'll need to provide better evidence than some devs laughing about PVP, LOL...

That is bizarre and unprofessional perhaps, but it in no way contradicts the suggestion Sandro made.

 

[Jockey79]

What is your point?

Well as you're implying Sandros "we" comment seems to refer to all of FDev, I'm clearly pointing out that isn't the case.

I have quotes and videos that contradict Sandros royal "we" from David Braben, Michael Brookes, Mark Allen.....

A good starting point is: https://forums.frontier.co.uk/showt...-Information?p=6810004&viewfull=1#post6810004
Where you'll see quite a few pro choice comments from various members of the dev team (the "evidence" you requested has been in my sig for years, not sure how you missed it???).

Sandro wanted to push pew pew PvP for PP. Which was very clear in all his remarks and questions.
There is no evidence any other member of the team wanted the same Open Only or Open Bonuses for power Play.

 

[Bob Lighthouse]

Well as you're implying Sandros "we" comment seems to refer to all of FDev, I'm clearly pointing out that isn't the case.

LOL!
No, it just means "more than , just Sandro (who just left btw! nyah-nyah!)".

Why do you feel the need to build some strawman army?

"We" is ample evidence.
You're being absurd.

 

[Mouse]

LOL!
No, it just means "more than , just Sandro (who just left btw! nyah-nyah!)".

Why do you feel the need to build some strawman army?

"We" is ample evidence.
You're being absurd.

If you want to talk about strawman army look at your posts.. that is all it is.. what Jockey posted before was not an anecdote and he keeps giving you evidence yet you do your best to downplay evidence by trying to label it as "anecdote" or a straw man...


all you are doing is deflecting and it is as plain as the sun reflecting off the water that you surf on.

 

[Jockey79]

LOL!
No, it just means "more than , just Sandro (who just left btw! nyah-nyah!)".

Why do you feel the need to build some strawman army?

"We" is ample evidence.
You're being absurd.

As I linked you to a page explaining how "we" is used in the singular (known as the "royal we") but you're ignoring it
I'll have to agree with Mouse.

Doesn't matter how much evidence and how many English lessons we provide, you've decided you're right and are refusing to accept facts to the contrary.
But by doing that you are weakening your own position. As others are taking the information on board and updating their opinions accordingly.
But feel free to continue with your "strawman" on how Sandro speaks for the entire company when it comes to Elite and PvP. I'm sure the CEO and major shareholder agrees;

[video=youtube_share;gEtHu3AXw2Q]https://youtu.be/gEtHu3AXw2Q?t=2652[/video]

 

[Agony_Aunt]

LOL!
No, it just means "more than , just Sandro (who just left btw! nyah-nyah!)".

Why do you feel the need to build some strawman army?

"We" is ample evidence.
You're being absurd.

Wow, just learned Sandy has moved to another project at FD.

Also, its worth reading Ed's post in the Sandro thread. He spells it out that no decisions are made by any single person and there are always multiple people involved.

 

[Robert Maynard]

Provide me with quotes from Michael Brookes or David Braben when Powerplay debuted, saying that Powerplay was all about the PvP, then I’ll change my opinion on that matter.

Partial transcript from the stream linked above [ https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=52kOyADxK5E&feature=youtu.be&t=2895 ];

secondly this isn't any in any way shape or form a fait accompli it's an interesting concept it's quite a big one it's something that we've come to we've been thinking about only in hindsight right this obviously wasn't the way that the game launched but we're looking at it now and we're saying okay so being very kind of pragmatic are there ways that we can prove the game we shouldn't we shouldn't you might investigate if we honestly think it might improve things but by the same token it doesn't mean to say that we it's gonna we're gonna do it

 

[Deareim]

Which drama ? Someone complaining about being killed in OPEN while DW2 have PG or Mobius or solo ? Really ? I usually don't get involved in that fight but it is utterly stupid to complain about it.

 

[V'larr]

Which drama ? Someone complaining about being killed in OPEN while DW2 have PG or Mobius or solo ? Really ? I usually don't get involved in that fight but it is utterly stupid to complain about it.

If you took a minute before posting this to read a bit, you'd have found your own answer.

 

[Goose4291]

Well as you're implying Sandros "we" comment seems to refer to all of FDev, I'm clearly pointing out that isn't the case.

I have quotes and videos that contradict Sandros royal "we" from David Braben, Michael Brookes, Mark Allen.....

A good starting point is: https://forums.frontier.co.uk/showt...-Information?p=6810004&viewfull=1#post6810004
Where you'll see quite a few pro choice comments from various members of the dev team (the "evidence" you requested has been in my sig for years, not sure how you missed it???).

Sandro wanted to push pew pew PvP for PP. Which was very clear in all his remarks and questions.
There is no evidence any other member of the team wanted the same Open Only or Open Bonuses for power Play.

I dont want to go all birdlaw here, but the issue you've got with that reasoning is that all the quotes you're using pre-date Sandro's one (and the implementation of powerplay) so the idea that the 'we' could imply a change in FDev rhetoric, or that Sandro was making something that was tacitly implied at powerplays inception, is valid.

As Ive said before every time we go on this conversation roundabout, I genuinely believe that they regarded powerplay as structured goal orientated PvP using PvE merits as the metric to gauge success in the same manner running a flag into your base in CTF is done for point scoring, however the teams inexperience when it comes to multiplayer game design meant they didnt account for how the path of least resistance would impact on it.

 

[Robert Maynard]

I dont want to go all birdlaw here, but the issue you've got with that reasoning is that all the quotes you're using pre-date Sandro's one (and the implementation of powerplay) so the idea that the 'we' could imply a change in FDev rhetoric, or that Sandro was making something that was tacitly implied at powerplays inception, is valid.

The fact that in this stream Sandro says "this obviously wasn't the way that the game launched", in reference to the OOPP element of the Flash Topic investigations, suggests, to me at least, that it is a later shift in terms of such a thing being even considered as a possibility by the Developers.

 

[Goose4291]

The fact that in this stream Sandro says "this obviously wasn't the way that the game launched", in reference to the OOPP element of the Flash Topic investigations, suggests, to me at least, that it is a later shift in terms of such a thing being even considered as a possibility by the Developers.

As I keep saying we're down to playing word games here, as yes, Powerplay did launch as a tri-modal (which no-one refutes).

However that doesnt preclude my last statement regarding its purpose and an oversight by game developer inexperienced with the multiplayer field.

 

[Robert Maynard]

As I keep saying we're down to playing word games here, as yes, Powerplay did launch as a tri-modal (which no-one refutes).

It's an internet forum - words are the fundamental form of communication.... ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

However that doesnt preclude my last statement regarding its purpose and an oversight by game developer inexperienced with the multiplayer field.

I'd hardly call the conscious pan-modal implementation of a game feature and the (more than) three years since "an oversight". If Powerplay was meant to offer an opportunity of "consensual PvP", it already does that - doubly so - in that it is firstly optional and secondly available in all three game modes. If Powerplay was meant to guarantee that participating would involve the possibility of PvP then it was implemented "wrong".