General / Off-Topic Hi and bye...

[Rafe Zetter]

I feel it necessary to post this reply - partly because I took the time to do it before seeing thread was closed, plus partly in explanation - this thread has highlighted to me that there are those who would willingly sacrific parts of ED for their own benefit, everyone else be damned - something I cannot stand by and watch so I'm dropping out of the community until the alpha, I'll submit bug reports and the like but that's about it. I fear if Tiwaz and his ilk have any sort of influence in ED it will become something less than it could be, and I just can't watch that occur, it's just too annoying.

The PvE, PvP , PvAll thread has been closed so I've put it here, so I can get it off my chest, what happens after that.. happens. Deleted or otherwise.

And yes Jeffryan I too am bored because it's obvious to me now Tiwaz just doesn't get it. He says he does but the below proves otherwise.

360k is the amount of people we KNOW to be willing to shovel up money in constant stream for sandbox space MMO.
All else is completely unknown.

Unknown to you maybe, but I have a lot more experience of this - every single one of the private servers that I mentioned, and I know for a fact there are dozens in freelancer alone for the various flavors of mods, are paid for by people willing to run them [.....] There are X-universe mod servers, Freespace servers, etc etc etc, are they all here? I doubt it.

Do I think that "400k total playerbase" you mentioned are in all of those games? no. (the big list I put of spacesim games). Do I think if it were possible to count all the numbers of all those people in the various games I listed and put them into some freaky venn diagram it would still reveal a core of just 400k players feeding ALL OF THEM? Again, no.

Except you forget, that people often buy multiple games. Thus even if each Freelancer, X, Freespace and something else sold say 500 000 copies, it does not mean 2 million people bought them. It could just as well be that same, eager 500 000 person group bought all four games. Reality would be somewhere between. And then you have to factor in how many of the people who have those games play them for PVP.

Forget hmm?

I didn't say they were, but if you accumulate all of those that bought all of the games I listed (which btw a lot of them have a great deal in common with ED - space based, flight, trading, piracy, questing games - which is what the core of the Elite franchise is all about), even if you include the crossovers of people buying more than one on the list, you WILL get a number in the MILLIONS, not copies of the games - PEOPLE.

You KEEP saying the 360k who play Eve is all there is for spacesim games, subscription based or otherwise - I'm saying different because of all the others that are out there still being played, including some that are years old. I DO NOT, cannot, believe that every single person who plays a spacesim game plays EVERY SINGLE ONE of the others as well.

More importantly why do you keep going on about people willing to "shovel up cash" to play anyway? ED IS NOT a fee based game, this has been made extremely clear from the start.

You cannot assume that each one of the people you mentioned who might want this game also want to PvP! Hell, this poll shows that huge percentage of people do NOT.

36% is not huge. Huge means large - this is not large, it is the smaller share of the poll; smaller by half almost. This poll is not saying PvP only is it saying: "Everything, a good mix of PvE and PvP with as little restrictions as possible"

I'm NOT advocating PvP only - I AM NOT a PvP only player, something I have made clear more than once:

And that freedom includes carebears, I know dozens of people like my self who got to a stage of confidence in Eve whereby we started to think.. there's more to the game than this... lets see whats out there, and started to dabble on the fringes of PvEvP . If the game structure doesn't allow this and firmly segregates everyone - even the hardcore PvPer's will get bored for lack of targets or the same targets; over and over and over and over and there's only so much PvE you can do before that too gets old - same sh*t different system.

Carebear's partaking of the "danger" of flying to an anarchic system knowing full well that "danger" has no teeth and that there's a 99.99 % chance of getting there intact (derping into the side of the spacestation not withstanding). I'm not a PvP purist, or a carebear hater, I've been one many a time, but some things you just can't really expect considering the franchise. Some people don't play Eve Online because it's just "not for them", doesn't mean CCP should change it to accommodate you does it?

Problem is that you think through very narrow tube and assume that all there is around is just like that. You look through eyes of PvP-player, assuming that everyone else wants same things. Which is very, very wrong.

Why do you insist on thinking I'm a PvE killer?

So you want to make sure that PvE people have no right to enjoy their game so you can have your fun by shooting people who have least possibilities to defend themselves?

Tell me, why the hell would I pay for this game to make YOU happy instead of wanting to make ME happy?

Let PvP stagnate I say! I do not care! Aren't you getting that? I do not bloody care. If you PvP people cannot keep your own gamestyle alive, then it is unworthy to live!

Flip that orange bit on it's head, and see what you get, certainly not a way to influence your argument.

While you may not care I do care about everyone involved in the game, present and future:

We have waited for so many years, as have others; and we would play the game regardless; for a time at least, even with draconian restrictions in place; yet still tens of thousands more do not have the nostalgia we have - it is for these people the game must be made if it is to survive long term, and by that I mean past the first couple of expansions, new releases of similar games in the genre and game content being completed.

[.....] either that or it's a case of "I've got what I wanted the rest can go ***** themselves" (yes the vehemence of that statement is intentional), which judging by the tone and words of several of the naysayers is exactly what I think they think.[/COLOR]

You Tiwaz seen to be in the "go ***** yourself" club.

 

[Selezen]

I don't understand. The topic degenerated into an argument between two factions who didn't agree with each other, and thus was not achieving its original intent - the poll showed a result, and that's that.

Closing it was for the best, from what I could see. Raising another topic purely to get the last word in (which is what it looks like from here) seems counter productive. All points that could have been made have been made, and the two factions are not going to agree. Not ever.

The only thing that will happen here is that a moderator will lock this topic too.

What's happening this week? Everyone seems very angry. :S

Would a happy kitten help?

 

[Susimetsa]

What's happening this week? Everyone seems very angry. :S

Must be something in the water. Better not drink it and keep drinking rum, whiskey and other hard spirits for as long as the stores last...

 

[Minti2]

Mate dont just drop off the radar, if you feel jaded, just take a few days off the forums and come back fresh.

I was in the PvP thread, had a say, found both sides interesting, then seriously for the last dozen pages barely read them, as nothing new was coming out of them(still good written posts, but just from different angles) am glad that thread is dead!

Am for PvP, but honestly i am putting faith in the Devs to put a good game forward, and leave them to decide the outcome.

I think there's been quite a few spats around the threads, but even if i dont agree with someone, i dont want them going away, best to have your say and then just walk away.

So some time out if you need it, then come back ok....otherwise these forums are gonna dry up if peeps keep going, drink at the Thergoid when you return

 

[Geraldine]

Hi Rafe Zetter
The thread was temporally closed by the mod team to allow a cooling off period as it was felt that the thread was just going round in circles. It will be re-opened later.

There is a heck of a lot of great points in the thread which in my view deserve to be herd but when a thread descends into argument and counter argument, it's usefulness becomes lessened.

As a suggestion Rafe, you can re-post your thoughts once the thread is active again. Here is a link to save you digging around for it. In the meantime I will now close this thread.