Holding Umbrage with Huayangosaurus Being Resold

[Mjmannella]

As many of you are aware, Huayangosaurus appeared in the first JWE in Isla Matanceros, the first stegosaur available to the player. And now, we see it be blatantly re-sold without any acknowledgement of this shady practice. This wouldn't be so bad if the model was at all changed, but our evidence points to the contrary:

Huayangosaurus as it appears in JWE2

The Steppe pattern of Huayangosaurus as it appears in JWE1

A textureless Huayangosaurus model from JWE1

Now you may be wondering, "the model looks good as-is, what could possibly be done to warrant a second look?"

Allow me to show you an oft-neglected feature of this stegosaur, its tail club.

That's right, Huayangosaurus had both thagomizers and a tail club! This is something that the artistic liberties of the Jurassic franchise could very easily exploit, and it would let this genus use ankylosaurus animations to differentiate it from other species.

And yet... we don't see this. We see a simple port of a 2017-2018 asset going into a 2021 game. It's truly saddening that this adorable dinosaur is a victim of a downright greedy business practice.

 

[PCMR4Life]

I am just glad that we get one of the original dinosaurs back. I though we would get all the dinosaurs from the first game but I guess not. I wonder why they cut Huayangosaurus out? Did it get replaced with something else. I am sure it will have the better textures, animations and AI that come with JWE 2. I don't mind buying a few of the original dinosaurs back with JWE2 improvements.

 

[Mjmannella]

I am just glad that we get one of the original dinosaurs back. I though we would get all the dinosaurs from the first game but I guess not. I wonder why they cut Huayangosaurus out? Did it get replaced with something else. I am sure it will have the better textures, animations and AI that come with JWE 2. I don't mind buying a few of the original dinosaurs back with JWE2 improvements.

It would've had all those improvements as a given if they just added it to the base game and not being a re-sold port with no model changes.

 

[Aramus418]

I don't think we're being "resold" anything. Idk about yours, but my JWE1 Huay is still here right where I left her, and now I'm getting a new one with JWE2. I've never heard of a man get sold his own car back to him that drove it home to have two cars in his driveway.

Also, instead of getting fixated on the dinos from JWE1 that get bumped to later DLC, maybe take into account the new dinos that are coming with the base game that we've never seen before. We're going from 37(68) to 75(80): what is the net value there? It looks to me like we're coming home to few extra cars in our garages.

 

[Mjmannella]

I don't think we're being "resold" anything. Idk about yours, but my JWE1 Huay is still here right where I left her, and now I'm getting a new one with JWE2. I've never heard of a man get sold his own car back to him that drove it home to have two cars in his driveway.

Also, instead of getting fixated on the dinos from JWE1 that get bumped to later DLC, maybe take into account the new dinos that are coming with the base game that we've never seen before. We're going from 37(68) to 75(80): what is the net value there? It looks to me like we're coming home to few extra cars in our garages.

You're being forced to pay premium for something you formerly got in the base game. You're not getting a "new" Huayangosaurus, you're getting the same one you got 3-1/2 years ago being ported over with no model changes to warrant a re-sell.

And more content is an expectation from a sequel, not a point of appraisal.

 

[Erior]

Technically everything is getting resold, as you have to pay for a new game to play with the Tyrannosaurus.

I agree on the model being improveable, in any case.

 

[Fossa]

The problem with this is that Huayangosaurus is ANYTHING but DELUXE.

It looks kinda cheap.

 

[Aramus418]

You’re not being “forced” to do anything. And I don’t understand where this idea comes from that buying something in an original game somehow entitles you to some facsimile of the content in all future sequels in a series. That has almost never been how games work, and the only place it does is a very small niche of hardcore simulators that sell at the highest prices in the entire industry. Y’all are mad at having to pay $10 for Huayangasaurus along with everything else in the Deluxe pack? Try $20 for just Huayangasaurus; but hey, you’ll never have to pay for another one. When you’ve paid over $1000 for everything from JWE1, then you’ll get to keep it all in perpetuity through the graphics upgrade every 3-4 years.

 

[Mjmannella]

Justifying a bad practice with the possibility of an even worse practice is not sound logic. Worse practices still make the bad practice bad.

 

[Aramus418]

It’s not “bad practice”. The code and art team member’s labor costs money. Triple-A games have cost $60 for over 20 years, and in the mean time development costs have skyrocketed. If it’s not worth it to you then don’t buy it; you’re not being cheated.

 

[Mjmannella]

If I'm being expected to pay a premium price for something I got as part of a base game 3 years ago, I'm fully within reason to expect at least some sort of model change to make it worth the removal from its base-game status. Frontier gives me no reason to do so.

 

[Aramus418]

And again I think your conception is flawed. To be resold something, the thing must first be removed from your possession and that is not occurring here. Second, your perception of what you will be getting several months from now is premature and shallow: there is much more to JWE than what any individual dinosaur looks like in a single screenshot.

I own a 2017 Jeep Wrangler (JK). Jeep now offers a 2022 Wrangler (JL). The new wranglers no longer come with a free year of Sirius XM satellite radio (only the capability to sign up for it). I do not have to buy the new Jeep. If I do buy, I have not been scammed into paying a premium for anything I already own.

 

[Mjmannella]

the thing must first be removed from your possession and that is not occurring here.

According to who? If you include a sun roof as part of my first car's standard price then try to sell it as an upcharge on my second car, you're charging me extra for something I already owned. Re-selling doesn't require theft.

Second, your perception of what you will be getting several months from now is premature and shallow: there is much more to JWE than what any individual dinosaur looks like in a single screenshot.

Updates to behaviour and stats are expectations for every dinosaur, that's kind of the point of this being a sequel. I'm not going to give appraisal for something I was expecting, that's just my expectations being met. And with Huayangosaurus being re-sold at premium without any changes, it's a blatant rip-off for what should be universal updates.

 

[Aramus418]

According to who? If you include a sun roof as part of my first car's standard price then try to sell it as an upcharge on my second car, you're charging me extra for something I already owned. Re-selling doesn't require theft.


Updates to behaviour and stats are expectations for every dinosaur, that's kind of the point of this being a sequel. I'm not going to give appraisal for something I was expecting, that's just my expectations being met. And with Huayangosaurus being re-sold at premium without any changes, it's a blatant rip-off for what should be universal updates.

Except that the sunroof on your first car is still there at your disposal for use and enjoyment. The sunroof in the 2017 model doesn’t entitle you to a free sunroof in the 2022 model. I can also promise you the first sunroof didn’t come free in the whole cost of the car, and the new one isn’t “extra” once you account for everything else you’re paying for in the new car (they’ve usually given people who never use something the option to not pay for that feature).

And quite frankly your not entitled to “expected” improvements in a sequel either because developing those improvements STILL COSTS MONEY IN DEVELOPER TIME AND EFFORT.

 

[Mjmannella]

Except that the sunroof on your first car is still there at your disposal for use and enjoyment. The sunroof in the 2017 model doesn’t entitle you to a free sunroof in the 2022 model. I can also promise you the first sunroof didn’t come free in the whole cost of the car, and the new one isn’t “extra” once you account for everything else you’re paying for in the new car (they’ve usually given people who never use something the option to not pay for that feature).

Expecting something to be a pack-in because it was in a prior game is 100% a reasonable expectation. The first game sets the baseline for the sequel, and not meeting the first game's criteria is failing to met the bar where it was set.

And quite frankly your not entitled to “expected” improvements in a sequel either because developing those improvements STILL COSTS MONEY IN DEVELOPER TIME AND EFFORT.

Every game costs time and effort, JWE2 is no exception. Why they get to use that as a scapegoat from criticism? And I can guarantee you that Huayangosaurus being ported over did not take the same amount of time and effort as it did for the 4 other deluxe animals or any new animal in the base game.

 

[Aramus418]

Nothing I’ve said absolves Frontier from criticism. What?!

And your expectation is far from 100% reasonable. What one may reasonably expect is not one in the same with what one is actually entitled to, and your entire argument here is an entitlement demand based on a premature, surface-level complaint.

Frontier obviously made a decision to devote their finite time on brand new creatures so some old pals got cut and pushed later down the road in the process. There’s already a flood of morons insisting JWE2 as a whole is the same exact thing that should have been a dlc rather than a new base game. In exchange for new faces, a few of your old pals are going to come back later in subsequent DLC. That’s the deal we’ve been offered: take it or leave it; crying “shady business practices” is unreasonable because that isn’t what this is. I don’t know what else to tell you.

 

[gabeluna27]

"Porting" assets into another game, even if it's a similar engine from 3 years ago, is hard work on its own, including with additional new textures and animations and possibly sounds, shading and mapping fixtures, and programming that which all returning dinos undoubtfully have. Now try imagining that for so-freaking-many returning dinos within a limited scheduled timeframe and budget, especially since there are plenty known already coming back (though still unsure if it will be every single one of them, but still very), combined with every other thing they have been working on for it. This leads to a question of what's known as "backwards capability." Will assets they've made for the first game will ever work properly in the next? Developers won't know unless they work on them, especially since this game will be on more newer platforms and engine builds than the former.

Nothing in game production is free at all, so it must all be paid for somehow. Day 1 DLCs are secondary priority content that can't make the scheduling, so another budget is provided with extra help. Free content is only provided as long as enough, depending on what is "enough," revenue is/can be generated elsewhere for the game by a significant and respective number of engaging players. So, I'm not surprised that least something from the previous game is in the day 1 delux PDLC pack.

No one is forced to do anything in regards to paying for something for a game at all. Now, you would have to pay for something if you want to do it and have it in-game just like with anything else you choose to pay for, but nobody is being forced into doing it at all. We all "vote with our wallets" with titles and DLCs, and if anything, big or tiny, doesn't meet our personal respective benefits and likings, then that's totally A-OK. If something didn't for you, then I'm sorry you weren't able to find any from it yourself.

 

[Mjmannella]

And your expectation is far from 100% reasonable. What one may reasonably expect is not one in the same with what one is actually entitled to, and your entire argument here is an entitlement demand based on a premature, surface-level complaint.

Why should I not expect something from the base game of the first game to be the base game of the sequel, where it belongs?

Frontier obviously made a decision to devote their finite time on brand new creatures so some old pals got cut and pushed later down the road in the process.

Except Huayangosaurus wasn't cut and added later, It's being released on the same day as the base game. That's the shady part. It isn't being added 3 months or 5 months from launch; it's being added on Day 1, with a premium price for no reason.

"Porting" assets into another game, even if it's a similar engine from 3 years ago, is hard work on its own, including with additional new textures and animations and possibly sounds, shading and mapping fixtures, and programming that which all returning dinos undoubtfully have. Now try imagining that for so-freaking-many returning dinos within a limited scheduled timeframe and budget, especially since there are plenty known already coming back (though still unsure if it will be every single one of them, but still very), combined with every other thing they have been working on for it. This leads to a question of what's known as "backwards capability." Will assets they've made for the first game will ever work properly in the next? Developers won't know unless they work on them, especially since this game will be on more newer platforms and engine builds than the former.

You do realise that JWE and JWE2 are using the same base engine right? JWE2 using an updated version of the same engine doesn't mean there's nothing transferable from the older version of the engine. The sounds, shading, and UV'ing will be identical to what you've seen in JWE1. There's no reason to change that when it already looks good. New animations and coding are expectations for everything, so Huayangosaurus getting that is nothing worth putting on a pedestal of validity.

Nothing in game production is free at all, so it must all be paid for somehow. Day 1 DLCs are secondary priority content that can't make the scheduling, so another budget is provided with extra help. Free content is only provided as long as enough, depending on what is "enough," revenue is/can be generated elsewhere for the game by a significant and respective number of engaging players. So, I'm not surprised that least something from the previous game is in the day 1 delux PDLC pack.

How does a port not make base-game scheduling? That would be quite belittling of the developers to say that Huayangosaurus was just too much for them.

No one is forced to do anything in regards to paying for something for a game at all. Now, you would have to pay for something if you want to do it and have it in-game just like with anything else you choose to pay for, but nobody is being forced into doing it at all. We all "vote with our wallets" with titles and DLCs, and if anything, big or tiny, doesn't meet our personal respective benefits and likings, then that's totally A-OK. If something didn't for you, then I'm sorry you weren't able to find any from it yourself.

I'm forced to pay premium to satisfy my expectations; I would say that's something unreasonable.

 

[Aramus418]

Why should I not expect something from the base game of the first game to be the base game of the sequel, where it belongs?

Except Huayangosaurus wasn't cut and added later, It's being released on the same day as the base game. That's the shady part. It isn't being added 3 months or 5 months from launch; it's being added on Day 1, with a premium price for no reason.

You do realise that JWE and JWE2 are using the same base engine right? JWE2 using an updated version of the same engine doesn't mean there's nothing transferable from the older version of the engine. The sounds, shading, and UV'ing will be identical to what you've seen in JWE1. There's no reason to change that when it already looks good. New animations and coding are expectations for everything, so Huayangosaurus getting that is nothing worth putting on a pedestal of validity.

How does a port not make base-game scheduling? That would be quite belittling of the developers to say that Huayangosaurus was just too much for them.

I'm forced to pay premium to satisfy my expectations; I would say that's something unreasonable.

Ok, so thank you for establishing that you don't have the slightest clue of what is involved in making a video game even if it was explained to you. You're free to hope for anything you like, but right now Frontier's mere mortal development team has rendered a performance within a finite schedule and the offer is now on the table: take it or leave it. And go ahead and take "forced" out your mouth because you obviously don't know how that works either.

 

[Sclurp]

Yeah Deluxe Edition content should be new content created specifically for that edition of the game. There's no reason why they couldn't just move this dino over to the new game like the others have been -- it required no extra development cost to warrant its inclusion in a separate and special version of the game. Nah, Frontier...jog on.