But being a moderator obeys. If the people with power to regulate the forum are trolling, how they will have respect from ordinary participants?
Hopes and fears for the new not-a-season business model
- Thread starter LKx
- Start date
But being a moderator obeys. If the people with power to regulate the forum are trolling, how they will have respect from ordinary participants?
You posted a fact free negative diatribe and expect me to do better?
David Braben does love his Frontier franchise (it's definitely 'his baby') but he also obviously is a corporate man who will do anything to ensure the survival of his company - check out the PS4 release where Horizons hasn't been folded into the main game but costs extra on day of release along with the no pay to win DLC extras. No VR either on release which I think is a BIG mistake, would've probably tripled their sales.
So yea, I think ED is on the back burner at the moment, totally up to the company what they do going forward, we paid for base game and Horizons and whether our trust was misplaced or not people will wait, or come back when things get interesting or hurl abuse. Where they're hurting themselves tho is the utter lack of quality communication with their customer base. That (I predict) will come back and bite them on the ...
@ Fdev: We don't need a timetable or a roadmap set in stone, but we do need a statement of future intent (even if you just say, 'wait for E3, big announcement coming.'), here's what I want:
Orrery / dead world with atmosphere / gas giant scooping / proper naval career path with missions and rewards / vegetation filled worlds / legs / life filled worlds (all paid DLC). Throughout that more work on the four staples, exploration, trading, mining & piracy (inc planetary scanning with placeable POIs, more multiplayer features with netcode being significantly improved, better Powerplay integration, a proper Crime & Punishment system implemented, CQC folded into the main game and a bigger difference between anarchy and HiSec systems).
Cheers & o7 [alien]
Saying something doesn't make it true. At best in this case it's your opinion. At worst it's unmitigated, baseless rubbish.
You keep saying this over and over as if it somehow neutralizes all of Braben's and FD's bad decisions since Horizons launched.
Are you somehow suggesting that the consequences of the deliberate choices they've made in developing Horizons are somehow "opinions" when we can see the direct, negative effect on the underdeveloped gameplay?
Let's be clear. You're the one making the claims so you have to prove them, not me.
So in claiming that deliberate negative decision making at Frontier has directly led to 'failure' (rather than them having good intentions but #makinggamesishard so for various didn't work out as they'd like) needs something other than a conspiracy theory.
I'm reluctant to bring up SC as well, given how often it tends to derail threads, but now that you've brought it up it illustrates a major difference between how Braben/FD and Roberts/CIG handle communication with their respective gaming communities.
Last week CIG announced significant changes to their ship upgrade model, suggesting that they were going to add another $5 "base cost" which was essentially a "fee" to use the service. They provided nonsensical reasons that didn't make any logical sense. I created a detailed thread on the CIG forums stating as much and have been involved a very active discussion of the relevant issues. Many other players created similar threads and at any given time there are at least a dozen active threads on the front page of their forums since they made their announcement all basically denouncing the changes for several reasons.
A few days later, CIG announced that they're scrapping the $5 fee idea, and are instead removing "$0 cost" ship changes instead.
Now the community remains unhappy with the second set of changes for a different set of reasons, and part of their "rationale" for the changes in the first place is now being examined and heavily criticized. Was the specific response from CIG exactly what everyone was hoping for? No, there is still room for improvement and that discussion is ongoing. But they DID respond, quickly and decisively, to an issue that was causing significant concerns among backers. At NO point did any of the moderators try to belittle or ridicule the concerns, they simply moderated posts based on inappropriate content.
The important point here is that the community discussion identified concerns and resulted in a VERY rapid response from CIG. They very much WERE listening and responded to the community's concerns. I'm currently actively involved in those discussions in creating and contributing to multiple threads on the SC forums right now because it very much DOES have an impact on the game. That is how a responsive company shows that they both hear and value the community's opinions and concerns.
I would hope that Braben and FD would also listen to player concerns on these forums. They certainly appear to do so when it comes to gameplay balance changes, so it's not expecting too much that they would also respond in some way to community concerns about game development. The silence from Braben and FD on our concerns is quite telling. I suspect that Obsidian Ant's video has now served as a catalyst for further discussion and FD will need to respond at some point, but the difference between how Roberts/CIG is currently handling community concerns compared to the lack of response we're seeing from Braben/FD is quite substantial and it doesn't bode well for the Elite's future.
Last edited:
Poster slates FDev then defends the lies a company producing a buggy pre-alpha that's 6 years into a development has made.
Who decided to neglect core Elite game mechanics for over 2.5 years? That would be Braben and FD.
Who decided to take revenue from Elite and funnel that into Planet Coaster development? That would also be Braben and FD.
Who decided to implement a grindy, RNG-based Engineering system that took them over 6 months to balance properly? That would also be Braben and FD.
Who decided to implement a grindy SLF pilot mechanic with no way to preserve our pilots despite the significant grind involved?
Who decided to ignore the non-functioning crime and punishment system despite numerous complaints about griefing and trolling on the forums?
Who decided to make graphical downgrades to planetary textures?
Who decided to put a single line of RGB code to change weapon colors for $1.75 in the FD Store?
Who decided to push ship kits and nameplate DLC while the core game mechanics stagnate?
Who decided to develop multicrew as a "minimum viable product" that only involves gunner and SLF pilot roles, instead of their original plans?
Who decided to abandon the season development model and focus on DLC going forward?
Yeah, that's right. That was all Braben and FD.
Those are not "opinions". Those are deliberate development decisions they've made for very clear financial incentives.
Neglecting Elite development, developing Planet Coaster with Elite revenue instead of funding that game separately, delivering grindy game mechanics for Engineers and Guardians, giving us a minimum viable product for multicrew, pushing trivial and overpriced DLC while core game features stagnate, all of those were clearly done to make Braben and FD as much money as possible while putting as little resources as possible in Elite.
You can't just deflect all of those decisions as an "opinion". Those are all specific facts about how Braben and FD have been neglecting the development of Elite.
Viajero
Volunteer Moderator
I believe Elite was pronounced dead for the first time by other similar predictions sometime around the launch of its first playable content in Alpha back then in 2013. And since then regularly every now and then. Any time now.
What exactly is the problem with a game company developing... games?
Where was it said that Season 2 should take one year?
Please show the figures or data backing this up. Otherwise I presume this is just a statement of personal, and therefore anecdotal, opinion I am afraid.
FDEV has just achieved their record annual revenue, since ever, in this last fiscal year. To put it in perspective with other similar games. This year FDEV has achieved around 20-25% more revenue than Star Citizen. This is a show of extreme good will and trust in the company, which is growing and expanding, in my opinion.
Quote the source please? Otherwise this is just more anecdotal opinion again. Why would FDEV stop developing Elite when it is still probably one of the (if not the) main revenue earner for the company? See above. Also, based on info available my personal opinion is that, for example, there are high chances that some of the content in season 3.0 may include gas giants and planetary atmospheres. Etc.
Back to square one, you seem to have precisely zero data on how FDEV is assigning resources to their franchises, and simply issuing anecdotal opinion statements, plus what exactly was wrong with a game company developing games?
What exactly is the problem with a game company developing... games?
Where was it said that Season 2 should take one year?
Please show the figures or data backing this up. Otherwise I presume this is just a statement of personal, and therefore anecdotal, opinion I am afraid.
FDEV has just achieved their record annual revenue, since ever, in this last fiscal year. To put it in perspective with other similar games. This year FDEV has achieved around 20-25% more revenue than Star Citizen. This is a show of extreme good will and trust in the company, which is growing and expanding, in my opinion.
Quote the source please? Otherwise this is just more anecdotal opinion again. Why would FDEV stop developing Elite when it is still probably one of the (if not the) main revenue earner for the company? See above. Also, based on info available my personal opinion is that, for example, there are high chances that some of the content in season 3.0 may include gas giants and planetary atmospheres. Etc.
Back to square one, you seem to have precisely zero data on how FDEV is assigning resources to their franchises, and simply issuing anecdotal opinion statements, plus what exactly was wrong with a game company developing games?
Last edited:
When revenue from one game is used for another, completely separate game, and the first game, which was paid for IN ADVANCE to develop specific game content, remains underdeveloped, late and buggy, after 2.5 years? Then that is very much a problem.
The rest of your post quite simply isn't worth responding to if you don't understand that what Braben and FD have been doing with Elite over the past year is a problem for the game.
Viajero
Volunteer Moderator
That is just your very personal and anecdotal opinion I am afraid. You still have absolutely zero idea about how FDEV is assigning resources. A game company grows by developing games, I will ask again, what exactly is wrong with that?
Lol, really, and you do. Ok. Suspect you have not even read the post but hey, suit yourself!
I ll quote this again at least just in case:
FDEV has just achieved their record annual revenue, since ever, in this last fiscal year. To put it in perspective with other similar games this year FDEV has achieved around 20-25% more revenue than Star Citizen. This is a show of extreme good will and trust in the company, which is growing and expanding, in my opinion.
Last edited:
You clearly haven't read any of my other threads or posts on this topic. I know what FD's sources of revenue are and where they have been using these resources because I've read FD's financial reports. These are publically available as FD is a publically traded company.
You might want to actually read up on those issues if you think that they're simply "opinions" or if you don't think we have hard financial numbers about FD's business decisions as a company.
Pretty sure most games use revenue from one game to develop another. Standard practice in my eyes. The only way to expand and be a successful company.
And to say the game isn't being developed is a lie. It just isn't being developed in areas that you or me want. But sometimes that's they way games go.
Viajero
Volunteer Moderator
I have exactly the same information than you. You just seem to have your very personal, and therefore anecdotal, way to interpret it I am afraid.
The fact that on the one hand you claim there is not goodwill or trust left but at the same time ignore for example that this is the best and record revenue year for FDEV, by far, and even better than some key competitors for example, seems a bit hard to reconcile to be honest.
Last edited:
FDEV is a business company and as such they develop Elite on multi platforms to make the product grows to reach expectations in terms of money to expand the game further. Totally make sense. As for the bugs, no problem with that, Elite has launched since 2014 but still in development even if we play it. So much core and additional/functionnalities + headline features to be introduced for the future. It is going well for me. Don't understand all those hate about the company. FDEV has my full trust so far.
*sigh* I'll address just one point here is it's Sunday and I'm done with wasting more time on this.
Those guys making nameplates are artists. They're not programmers, designers, producers etc.,so had they not been producing nameplates they would not have been fixing "gameplay".
Additionally putting more people on a team does not fix anything, unless that team is already understaffed. In fact it can often create more problems because you have too many people needlessly involved.
Frontier will look at the features they want to include and staff accordingly. That does not mean features that don't work out as intended were under staffed. It does not mean the game is underfunded.
"When you hear hoof beats, think zebras, not horses."
See my reply above
Last edited:
Any small DLC will be for ships and access to new areas that are permit locked , or new weapons , shields etc
Larger expansion's will be for big additions like Planetary landing and the ability to walk around your ship or station.
Just means it's going to be hard to balance the game and keep the player base together.
We all know what happened to Horizons players vs non horizons players - they all got chucked In together and Engineered ships just wreck standard ships
Larger expansion's will be for big additions like Planetary landing and the ability to walk around your ship or station.
Just means it's going to be hard to balance the game and keep the player base together.
We all know what happened to Horizons players vs non horizons players - they all got chucked In together and Engineered ships just wreck standard ships
Last edited:
Where did I say the game simply "wasn't being developed" as some sort of blanket statement? What I actually said was much more specific, that the game:
Devari said:
If you aren't even going to read my posts then I really don't know what else to say.
How is revenue equivalent to goodwill among the player community? That's not an "interpretation", that's trying to equate completely different concepts with each other that do not at all mean the same thing.
I've explained how their decisions have been good for Braben's and FD's financial bottom line and bad for Elite game development. How is that not clear? You are literally not even understanding my entire argument that they are prioritizing financial incentives over proper game development.
It's like you're literally making my point for me with your nonsensical argument by trying to argue that because they're making money, there must be "goodwill" among the player community. How did you not get that FD has been paid to develop Horizons in advance but have used the money and resources elsewhere, which is exactly why the company overall is profitable but Elite is currently in such a bad state in terms of gameplay and content development?
Last edited: