Hopes and fears for the new not-a-season business​ model

[Agony_Aunt]

I'm curious how you can actually ask that question if you've read my replies in this thread.

Why don't you take a guess at where I got that information?

I'll wait.

Because in none of your replies have you presented any proof of what you are claiming. You have pointed to certain facts and then claimed those facts prove what you are saying. There is a disconnect.

You see, i have no problem with what you are saying in terms of opinion. Its just you trying to make everything sound like an absoloute truth. If you would just write it something like this it would be much better:

What we see is X. To me this seems like FD might be doing Y. If this is right, then i'm not happy with this.

Do you see what I'm saying?

 

[Agony_Aunt]

I'm sorry but you guys sound more like a damage control team then mods at this point.

(There's nothing wrong with that BTW... But gotta be tiring have to defend a game on every single post since 2.3)

Dear gods, I hope not. If we are, then someone at FD needs firing

 

[Devari]

Because in none of your replies have you presented any proof of what you are claiming.

Try again. I referenced some very specific documents produced by FD.

You'll have to actually read my posts this time.

I'll wait.

 

[Agony_Aunt]

I know one thing: i'm never buying an expansion sight unseen from FD ever again.

TotalBiscuit a long time ago spoke out against the risks of preorders and why people shouldn't do it.

[video=youtube;mf5Uj4XIT1Y]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mf5Uj4XIT1Y[/video]

And he is absoloutly correct, buying things sight unseen is foolish and risky.

But people did and do. They do it every day. Then they complain when they don't get what they wanted. Well, sorry, but fool on them.

I watched TBs video. I nodded sagely while watching it and said to myself "That man is right!" Then i preordered ED and later on got the LTE. Zero regrets from my side, but i guess i'm happy (more or less) with how FD are developing the game (yes, i have my complaints and i would prefer some things done differently, but overall, i'm enjoying the game, and that's all that really matters).

The important thing is, if you feel like you were let down by pre-ordering, that you don't pre-order again. And the old saying goes: Fool me once, shame on you. Fool me twice, shame on me.

If FD do change model to discrete DLCs with details in advance and close to release before selling, it will certainly help people like you who are not certain.

However, they could still stick to the season model and still keep the pre-order system. All you would have to do is wait until the end of the season before deciding whether to buy it.

 

[Agony_Aunt]

Try again. I referenced some very specific documents produced by FD.

You'll have to actually read my posts this time.

I'll wait.

You've also made quite a few posts. My responses are based on the posts i have read. I cannot claim to have read them all. Would you care to link me a specific one?

(And apologies, i did say in none of your posts, where i should have said, none of your posts that I have read).

 

[Vasco Sapien]

All i know is that ive sunk 100's of hours into this game and any new model that tries to take more money from me, nickel and dime me or play me for a fool will end my Association with this title.

Some of the ideas being bounced around in this thread worry me.

 

[Devari]

You've also made quite a few posts. My responses are based on the posts i have read. I cannot claim to have read them all. Would you care to link me a specific one?

Sorry, you have to keep up with my posts if you want to participate in the discussion. You've already been trying very hard to distort and misconstrue the small number of my posts you do manage to actually read, you're actually going to have to go back and read my posts yourself.

 

[Furinkazan]

TotalBiscuit a long time ago spoke out against the risks of preorders and why people shouldn't do it.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mf5Uj4XIT1Y

And he is absoloutly correct, buying things sight unseen is foolish and risky.

But people did and do. They do it every day. Then they complain when they don't get what they wanted. Well, sorry, but fool on them.

I watched TBs video. I nodded sagely while watching it and said to myself "That man is right!" Then i preordered ED and later on got the LTE. Zero regrets from my side, but i guess i'm happy (more or less) with how FD are developing the game (yes, i have my complaints and i would prefer some things done differently, but overall, i'm enjoying the game, and that's all that really matters).

The important thing is, if you feel like you were let down by pre-ordering, that you don't pre-order again. And the old saying goes: Fool me once, shame on you. Fool me twice, shame on me.

If FD do change model to discrete DLCs with details in advance and close to release before selling, it will certainly help people like you who are not certain.

However, they could still stick to the season model and still keep the pre-order system. All you would have to do is wait until the end of the season before deciding whether to buy it.

The preorder argument doesn't really work with Horizons. I bought it because i wanted landable planets, and there was no way of just buying 2.1.

 

[Vasco Sapien]

Wait.....i've seen that before

Free to Play:
Just like the game is at now, but you have to pay
-for a second fire group
-for cosmetics
-for Permits
-for credits

In addition the monthly-fee based premium account where you get
-everything where free to plays have to do micro transactions
-paying for cosmetics

If it is going this way......i think i'll quit to play. This "Free" to play concept has ruined many many games and the experience in those games.
I like the actual way how it works. Buy an expansion and cosmetics micro transactions. It works and it isn't too expensive. I like Frontier for that. Many claim that they don't get what was promised but i think, all what season 2 brought to us, is already at least worth the money i have spend. It could be better but i don't regret it! I would do it again!

Exactly.. This is nickel and dime game play and i wont be a party to it.
Subsciptions models are the same and again i'll pass.

Fdev wanna be very careful how they proceed with this, because other games of this class are coming very soon and getting this wrong will push everyone away.

Maybe they are betting on the console dollar, The PC market is about to be hit by Star citizen. But that is a terrible idea because both Xbox and Play station are soon releasing new more powerful platforms which might eventually run an SC client. Chris roberts would be a fool not to try and get a slice of the console cheddar.

 

[Agony_Aunt]

Sorry, you have to keep up with my posts if you want to participate in the discussion. You've already been trying very hard to distort and misconstrue the small number of my posts you do manage to actually read, you're actually going to have to go back and read my posts yourself.

LOL, in that case, i'm done discussing things with you. I'll just stick with thinking you are badly misrepresenting the situation and trying to present opinion as fact.

 

[Agony_Aunt]

The preorder argument doesn't really work with Horizons. I bought it because i wanted landable planets, and there was no way of just buying 2.1.

So, if FD had released Horizons complete, and you look at the features it had, would you have bought it? As i understand, you wanted planetary landings, but not so happy with some of the other features?

 

[Agony_Aunt]

Chris roberts would be a fool not to try and get a slice of the console cheddar.

Ah, but CIG and CR have said many times they will not port to consoles because SC is PC game, and CR is the saviour of PC gaming, and they would have to lose fidelity to port to consoles (and besides, the game would run like a pig on current gen consoles, it runs like a pig on a lot of PCs as well).

I dare you to go onto the SC subreddit and make a suggestion that CIG port SC to consoles. You'll get flamed to hell and back. Its like /r/pcmasterrace in there at times.

Of couse, should CR at some point announce they are going to port to consoles, it will be fun to watch the reactions in that sub. With half exploding and the other half flip flopping and saying what a good idea it is and how CR will save console gaming as well.

 

[Furinkazan]

So, if FD had released Horizons complete, and you look at the features it had, would you have bought it? As i understand, you wanted planetary landings, but not so happy with some of the other features?

Ehhh, maybe. Landings and Engineers, i like, even if they both have problems. 2.3, most definitely not. 2.4 is an unknown at the min.

I wouldn't have bought Horizons for the price of a full game just for 2.1/2. I would have paid £15-20 for both.

 

[[VR] Enexemander]

So, if FD had released Horizons complete, and you look at the features it had, would you have bought it? As i understand, you wanted planetary landings, but not so happy with some of the other features?

I would have. But at the same time, I feel like multicrew was rushed just by the virtue of it being at the end of the feature list when things were way behind schedule.

I worry about Elite. I love the game. The last season model had lots of problems (see the beginning fiasco causing review bombs with the whole game+expansion price) and then features getting pared down to the bone for time/cost concerns. Maybe a pay-per-feature model is actually better, because at the very least, if you're selling something as a stand alone it has to be feature complete.

But you end up fracturing the player base that way and you'll definitely anger people who feel like they're being nickel and dimed. Maybe smaller seasons with a few really well fleshed out features would work better?

 

[Vasco Sapien]

Ah, but CIG and CR have said many times they will not port to consoles because SC is PC game, and CR is the saviour of PC gaming, and they would have to lose fidelity to port to consoles (and besides, the game would run like a pig on current gen consoles, it runs like a pig on a lot of PCs as well).

I dare you to go onto the SC subreddit and make a suggestion that CIG port SC to consoles. You'll get flamed to hell and back. Its like /r/pcmasterrace in there at times.

Of couse, should CR at some point announce they are going to port to consoles, it will be fun to watch the reactions in that sub. With half exploding and the other half flip flopping and saying what a good idea it is and how CR will save console gaming as well.

Right now Star citizen is still in development so it will run like a pig on anyones hardware, Wait until the game is fully optimised and runs well on peoples system. If Chris Roberts wants to make money only within the PC market he will need to get Star Citizen running well on a wide range of PC hardware to maximize his footprint within the PC market and get a return. Once this is achieved he can say he has a stable well optimised client that could then be retrofit for the newer generation of 4k Consoles.

Consoles have distinct advantages above PC when developing gaming, chief amoung them is the fact that consoles all have unified hardware/software designed and vetted from the ground up. PC's are a hodgepodge of many different hardware and software configurations, software versions, patches, firmwares... running on systems clean or filled with bloatware in date or out of date.

Id bet that the new 4k Xbox on the horizon could run an optimised Starcitizen client which takes advantage of the clean, known, optimised, efficient, unified configurations of console design. Even if the game loses some fidelity, that isnt unprecedented and is in fact the norm when comparing PC and Console releases of any game. But the Console versions still sell more than the PC because the market is much much larger.

Chris Roberts is a business man. Passionate about his wares yes. But a man seeking the bottom line at all times.

Im betting with you now, that Star citizen WILL hit the console market eventually and the PC crowd can moan and act elitist about it and how CR has betrayed the master race, but money is money.

and Chris Robberts will go to bed every night on a mattress made from blocks of plastic wrapped Fiddy's and sleep tight.

 

[[VR] Enexemander]

Right now Star citizen is still in development so it will run like a pig on anyones hardware, Wait until the game is fully optimised and runs well on peoples system. If Chris Roberts wants to make money only within the PC market he will need to get Star Citizen running well on a wide range of PC hardware to maximize his footprint within the PC market and get a return. Once this is achieved he can say he has a stable well optimised client that could then be retrofit for the newer generation of 4k Consoles.

Consoles have distinct advantages above PC when developing gaming, chief amoung them is the fact that consoles all have unified hardware/software designed and vetted from the ground up. PC's are a hodgepodge of many different hardware and software configurations, software versions, patches, firmwares... running on systems clean or filled with bloatware in date or out of date.

Id bet that the new 4k Xbox on the horizon could run an optimised Starcitizen client which takes advantage of the clean, known, optimised, efficient, unified configurations of console design. Even if the game loses some fidelity, that isnt unprecedented and is in fact the norm when comparing PC and Console releases of any game. But the Console versions still sell more than the PC because the market is much much larger.

Chris Roberts is a business man. Passionate about his wares yes. But a man seeking the bottom line at all times.

Im betting with you now, that Star citizen WILL hit the console market eventually and the PC crowd can moan and act elitist about it and how CR has betrayed the master race, but money is money.

and Chris Robberts will go to bed every night on a mattress made from blocks of plastic wrapped Fiddy's and sleep tight.

Seems to me Mr. Roberts has no reason to ever release the game if what you say is true. He's selling ships in the game for $250+ (real dollars) and idiots are buying into it. There's even a ship they're selling for like $3,000 and people are buying it.

If you're thinking a release will happen just because of business sense, I suggest you take a closer look at the numbers.

 

[Blackcompany]

Right now Star citizen is still in development so it will run like a pig on anyones hardware, Wait until the game is fully optimised and runs well on peoples system. If Chris Roberts wants to make money only within the PC market he will need to get Star Citizen running well on a wide range of PC hardware to maximize his footprint within the PC market and get a return. Once this is achieved he can say he has a stable well optimised client that could then be retrofit for the newer generation of 4k Consoles.

Consoles have distinct advantages above PC when developing gaming, chief amoung them is the fact that consoles all have unified hardware/software designed and vetted from the ground up. PC's are a hodgepodge of many different hardware and software configurations, software versions, patches, firmwares... running on systems clean or filled with bloatware in date or out of date.

Id bet that the new 4k Xbox on the horizon could run an optimised Starcitizen client which takes advantage of the clean, known, optimised, efficient, unified configurations of console design. Even if the game loses some fidelity, that isnt unprecedented and is in fact the norm when comparing PC and Console releases of any game. But the Console versions still sell more than the PC because the market is much much larger.

Chris Roberts is a business man. Passionate about his wares yes. But a man seeking the bottom line at all times.

Im betting with you now, that Star citizen WILL hit the console market eventually and the PC crowd can moan and act elitist about it and how CR has betrayed the master race, but money is money.

and Chris Robberts will go to bed every night on a mattress made from blocks of plastic wrapped Fiddy's and sleep tight.

Star Citizen won't hot anyarkwt. Ever. At least, not with even HALF the advertised features.

The reason: the game is worth MORE financially now, than it will be once finished.

Right now ship sales, gullible investors and even more gullible fans, are bringing in millions.

But once you declare the game finished, you can't solicit more investment for development. You shut down ship sales for fear of being Pay to Win. And you rely only on product sales.

Problem is, most of your die hard fans HAVE bought it. You aren't actually likely to sell all that many more copies of the game. Certainly not enough to down the gold mine that selling promises has turned out to be.

Once Roberts good will FINALLY runs out, he will release the shoddy remnants of his fraudulent development process and call it the best he could do. Again.

It's sort of Elite, but with the underwhelming reveal coming BEFORE release instead of after.

 

[Vasco Sapien]

Seems to me Mr. Roberts has no reason to ever release the game if what you say is true. He's selling ships in the game for $250+ (real dollars) and idiots are buying into it. There's even a ship they're selling for like $3,000 and people are buying it.

If you're thinking a release will happen just because of business sense, I suggest you take a closer look at the numbers.

"A product is worth what someone will pay for it".

Development takes time and we can argue until we are blue in the face as to why Star citizen is taking so long (a conversation im not interested in as my tin foil hat is round the dry cleaners).

 

[[VR] Enexemander]

"A product is worth what someone will pay for it".

Development takes time and we can argue until we are blue in the face as to why Star citizen is taking so long (a conversation im not interested in as my tin foil hat is round the dry cleaners).

If you don't want to talk about it you shouldn't have brought it up!

 

[Vasco Sapien]

Star Citizen won't hot anyarkwt. Ever. At least, not with even HALF the advertised features.

The reason: the game is worth MORE financially now, than it will be once finished.

Right now ship sales, gullible investors and even more gullible fans, are bringing in millions.

But once you declare the game finished, you can't solicit more investment for development. You shut down ship sales for fear of being Pay to Win. And you rely only on product sales.

Problem is, most of your die hard fans HAVE bought it. You aren't actually likely to sell all that many more copies of the game. Certainly not enough to down the gold mine that selling promises has turned out to be.

Once Roberts good will FINALLY runs out, he will release the shoddy remnants of his fraudulent development process and call it the best he could do. Again.

It's sort of Elite, but with the underwhelming reveal coming BEFORE release instead of after.

And if any of this could be proven in such a high profile project like Star Citizen, Then CR is running a very high risk of some form of legal backlash and his reputation as a developer in tatters.

I have no doubt that Star Citizen will be HEAVILY populated with microtransaction and Pay 2 Win features upon release. It already is.

Money will be made once released, and market expansion into the console zones will increase that.

But these are all money making features that i am not personally interested in, which is why i may not be playing Star Citizen. Im hoping ED will have more class.

- - - Updated - - -

If you don't want to talk about it you shouldn't have brought it up!

Yeh im regretting it now.

Its a nice day out side and im planning a bike ride.