On a WarBRD base its response is fantastic too.
But the VKB should be fine too.
Hotas/Flight Stick Recommendations?
- Thread starter CMDR D Noize
- Start date
But the VKB should be fine too.
Dammit - I knew this was going to be a car crash. I called UPS last week to pay my taxes on the VKB, done, got a payment reference. Got an update today saying that UPS tried to deliver my parcel. They haven't, I have been in all day. I phoned customer care ( Phillipines - woman speaking pigeon english, I couldn't really understand her ) to find out what happened and they said I haven't paid even after I gave them the payment reference ( so why does the update say that the problem is that I wasn't here to collect? ). I can see that my card authorised the payment last Friday but UPS just haven't taken it. Inter bank clearing usually stops after 3pm on a Friday but everything should've cleared today and authorisation was already given.
Oh yes, according to their updates, all along, they have been scheduled to deliver tmw after lunch so they couldn't even get that right.
I'll call their billing dept tomorrow but I'm pretty sure I'm going to be claiming a refund on my credit card. Of course, if it wasn't for bleeping br*xit, none of this would be happening. This really IS 1970s shipping.
Now just need to find another X56 from somewhere. Heck my old one lasted at least 3 years maybe I'll get lucky again and my existing X56 throttle still works fine.
Oh yes, according to their updates, all along, they have been scheduled to deliver tmw after lunch so they couldn't even get that right.
I'll call their billing dept tomorrow but I'm pretty sure I'm going to be claiming a refund on my credit card. Of course, if it wasn't for bleeping br*xit, none of this would be happening. This really IS 1970s shipping.
Now just need to find another X56 from somewhere. Heck my old one lasted at least 3 years maybe I'll get lucky again and my existing X56 throttle still works fine.
Sheesh, you ordered it last week? So no delay, you are lucky.
UPS - didn't cause me an issue, sorry it has spoiled your experience.
You're right, there's an element of counting my blessings that it shipped immediately despite the pain. After all my moaning about the PIA of the UPS experience - it arrived! Less than a week after ordering. At the same time, I also had a delivery that was nothing to do with me but the courier left without speaking to me and two of my neighbours got into a huge argument over who owns a parking space! Thank goodness it's hump day today.
Gradually working my way through re-mappings. Clearly better build quality than the X56 and fits my hand much better. Flying... it's ok; the feel isn't as good and the twist is downright awful no matter how I fiddle the dry clutch and the calibration tool, compared to to my X56.
Sticking with the xbox controller for everything SRV, galactic map and walking in my carrier as I've gotten used to it and FDev did a good job with it IMO.
Overall impression of my VKB vs X56:
1) Is it a better built stick than the old one - oh yes, easily
2) Is it a better flight experience - meh
3) With hindsight would I have bought the VKB over the Saitek - it's a coin toss.
I you wanna go balls deep in ED and you have about a 1100 Euro and don't mind waiting I recommend this:
Joystick
virpil-controls.eu
virpil-controls.eu
Throttle
virpil-controls.eu
Collective
virpil-controls.eu
virpil-controls.eu
Rudder pedals
virpil-controls.eu
Virpil makes quality, something you will not get from Saitek or Thrustmaster with their plastic innards.
Have this setup and have not regretted since.
Another low cost approach with quality would be
Very sturdy and durable.
Again; stay away from SAITEK and Thrustmaster Warthog stuff.
Joystick
VPC WarBRD Grip
★ Perfect Match for the VPC WarBRD Base ★ Programmable LED Lighting ★ Available with Optional Lockable All-Metal Twist Axis Mechanism, or with a Fixed Grip Stock ★ Compatible with all VPC Bases ★ 10% Discount When Purchased with VPC Base (applied at checkout)
virpil-controls.eu
VPC WarBRD Base
★ Compact Design for Desktop Use ★ Dual-Cam Per Axis ★ Aircraft-Grade Duralumin Gimbal ★ Swappable Springs and Cams ★ Compatible With All VIRPIL Grips and Thrustmaster Grips ★ 10% Discount When Purchased with VPC Grip (applied at checkout)
virpil-controls.eu
Throttle
MongoosT-50CM3 Throttle
★ Aircraft-grade Duralumin Mechanics ★ Adjustable Finger-Lift Detents ★ Dual Throttle Axes ★ Analogue Slew Stick ★ Programmable LED Lighting ★ VPC Contactless Digital Proximity Sensors
virpil-controls.eu
Collective
VPC Rotor TCS Plus Base
★ All Metal Adjustable Mechanism ★ Swappable Cam Plates to Limit the Travel Range ★ Adjustable Clutch ★ Throttle Twist Axis Input with Engine Idle Button and Switch Restrictors
virpil-controls.eu
SharKa-50 Collective Grip
★ Based on the Ka-50 Helicopter ★ Material - Enhanced PU Plastic Construction
virpil-controls.eu
Rudder pedals
VPC WarBRD Rudder Pedals
★ Perfect for All Simulations ★ All Metal Construction ★ Aluminium Footplates ★ Adjustable Cam-Centering Mechanism ★ VPC Contactless Digital Proximity Sensors
virpil-controls.eu
Virpil makes quality, something you will not get from Saitek or Thrustmaster with their plastic innards.
Have this setup and have not regretted since.
Another low cost approach with quality would be
Fighterstick CH Products
CH Products, leading manufacturer of Industrial joysticks and Hall effect control devices including fingertip joysticks, trackballs, handgrip and simulation controllers.
www.chproducts.com
Very sturdy and durable.
Again; stay away from SAITEK and Thrustmaster Warthog stuff.
My X56 lasted nearly 4 years and I paid £130 - epic value. And I'm still using the throttle. My X52 never died, I just gave it away. I have another friend using an X52 for years - again no problems.
I will still recommend Saitek, chances are a buyer will have no problems for years, or at all, so they're still good value.
People with problems post them. People don't usually start a new thread just to say - hey, random observation, I've had widget X for this many years and it still works. The forums would be spammed if we did.
I bought the VKB because people raved about it. Aside from the build quality, it's just not as nice to use as my Saitek. If I could fix the intermittent voltage problem on the stick, I would go back to the X56.
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Why you would spam the WarBRD grip and not the Constellation Alpha I have no idea. If one is going Virpil why chose the cheap grip over the GOAT that is perfect for ED.
Good for you, my X55 lasted 2 years.
They are good value for casual gaming, and this is again subjective, because casual for some is not casual for others, but by casual, I mean: firing up your flight sim once every week to fly a couple of hours or an afternoon when the wife is gone shopping with friends. For everyday use, I recommend something more 'professional' and if you are going to have a bombshell setup like OP here, I don't see why I would not recommend something on par with his rig.
It was not my intention to spam the forum with what Karak from ACG would call Sponsored Bullcrap, and the observation I make is far from random, I wanted to spare OP the problems I had experienced myself a couple of years back.
The only positive thing that Saitek has mastered well is creating ergonomic sticks and good PR, just as Thrustmaster does. The build quality is crappy at best, and it shows when they fail and you decide to void the warranty to expose their guts and see what's up.
Let me elaborate:
Saitek:
I used to have a Rhino, the X55 (the predecessor of your X56). The issue after 2 years was that some of the throttle's buttons were starting to function erratically and after a while stopped functioning at all. So yeah, I opened it up and looked at what was causing the issue, I like to tinker with things and then solve them.
The issue was that the cheap wrapping that kept all those thin cables together (a piece of black fabric duct tape of about 2 cm long) had come loose and said cables had found their way between the cobwheel assembly that enables the forward and backwards movement of the trottle handle, and were 'eaten' so to speak by the cobwheels.
The issue here is the combination of bad engineering, and cheap parts. If Saitek cared about the longevity of their hardware, they would align the cables on the interior of their sticks with more care (as CH does) and these sticks would last much longer. This is not the case. Looks robust on the outside, but is built with flimsy parts, that are badly routed on the inside.
That is why I stepped away from Saitek, and thus my rant above.
Thrustmaster:
From the debacle of Saitek to the debacle of Thrustmaster...
I went from plastic to metal assuming (here we go again) that the quality of the exterior would reflect on the quality of the interior. Assumptions...
So I bought the Thrustmaster Hotas Warthog, and I found out that indeed (again) the innards - which should have been metal for the 450 Euro price tag this combo is sold for also comes with (ABS) plastic innards. The two plastic half spheres that form the ball on which the joystick swivels is poorly engineered, and guess what happened with that... correct it broke - again cheap or bad engineering - this same ball if made out of metal would have made the Warthog indestructible, but that was too much to ask. That flimsy ball is the core of your Warthog stick. If that breaks, your joystick is a cool looking 250 Euro paper weight.
Thankfully Virpil engineered its bases so it can accomodate the Thrustmaster Warthog Stick - which can itself be removed from the crappy base with plastic innards it is shipped with, and that is what I use on my VPC WarBRD.
I am very happy about VIRPIL products - I don't work for VIRPIL nor am I paid by them to promote their hardware. I am also an avid DCS Blackshark enthusiast, so I bought the collective rotor base as well as the Kamov Ka-50 stick, which I use in ED to navigate menus, control landing gear and cargo scoop, zoom in on the scanner etc.
I still use the Warthog Throttle, but I proposed the VIRPIL Mongoose here, because for 100 Euros more I prefer lasting quality - 10 years plus. Should my Warthog throttle fail, I will purchase the Mongoose.
That is the long story of my VIRPIL promotion thread above, and instead of having to purchase a new setup every 4 years, why not buy a setup that lasts for life?
I am however very content about my Thrustmaster TPR pendular rudder, but then again, that is around 460 Euros just for foot pedals. On another note, the Q & A manager that approved the Thrustmaster Warthog might (thankfully) have been sacked for continous bad flak received from people like me and the TPR might be an indication of that or of Thrustmaster going the VIRPIL route, because regardless of name branding... if the product is crap, good name branding will also vanish into thin air or worse.
CH products:
These are built well and simple inside and out. I still have both, and will probably never part with them; but they are plastic... what can I say... I don't drive electric and probably never will... I'm a petrol head, still prefer to get my bills via snail mail so I don't need to be a slave of my email account to pay or keep track of them, still smoke self rolled tobacco, not that vape rubbish that young people seem to inhale, and I prefer metal to plastic. I'm an old fashioned guy who likes things that work and keep working for ages and which can still be repaired or jury rigged by moi. Call me what you want, but I like to pay good money for decent stuff instead of getting myself a new joystick/throttle setup every 5 years for a quarter of the prices. To each his own I guess.
Like I said, if Saitek cared, you shouldn't have spend half an arm and a leg on the VKB. VIRPIL and WINWING (china) exist because Saitek and Thrustmaster cut corners just to make that extra buck. I loathe that kind of corporate thinking, that is what drives consumerism and creates mountains of trash.
Another reason for me purchasing VIRPIL is that I live in Europe. My budget, patience and understanding for 'customs clearance protocol' is zero. For the items ordered by the average Joe, customs officials are an expensive unreliable untimely liability whose 'service' seems bent on shelving your things for weeks if not months; things you, the customer, paid good money for and adding insult to injury declining you feedback on its status or a phone number to contact them and requesting another payment for 'their services' before releasing your goods at THEIR time and convenience. So, I order European as much as possible.
I have the F-16 / A-10 stick myself, I am pretty sure that the Constellation is very good as well, albeit a bit more expensive. Question of choice I guess.
Here's my setup:
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Steam tells me I have 2,065 hours playing ED on a Thrustmaster Hotas X without any issues.
![[VR] Mad Mike](https://forums-cdn.zaonce.net/data/avatars/m/27/27910.jpg?1553527108){kind=avatar}
I have had 2 x55s and not sure but think I am on my 2nd x56.
the x52 was build by saitek . it's quality was fairly ok.
unfortunately madkatz bought them out and there were serious cost cuttings with the x55 and early x56s
when they work the x55 and x56 is fantastic. it's great for elite as it has heaps of buttons but there is a massive design flaw in the wiring loom of the throttle. the wires are thin and move a lot when you move the throttle. over time (and not that much time) the wires get brittle, crack then snap.
it happened on both my x55s, and it's happening on my x56.
now soon after the x56 launched Logitech bought out madkatz. I spoke with a Logitech rep and they admitted this was a big problem in these throttles and they were addressing it.
since then the x56 RGB has come out which according to Logitech has had a number of tweaks and is significantly better made. unfortunately mine isn't one of those so can't comment.
IF it were me and I had around £100-£150 to spend, I would do homework on the new x56. if they are fixed great, you won't go far wrong.... but failing that I would consider the thrust master T16000 FCS HOTAS
personally as I have 2 working sticks I am using my x55 and x56 sticks in a hosas set up. it's fun but neither joysticks are good for lefties so not ideal.
the x52 was build by saitek . it's quality was fairly ok.
unfortunately madkatz bought them out and there were serious cost cuttings with the x55 and early x56s
when they work the x55 and x56 is fantastic. it's great for elite as it has heaps of buttons but there is a massive design flaw in the wiring loom of the throttle. the wires are thin and move a lot when you move the throttle. over time (and not that much time) the wires get brittle, crack then snap.
it happened on both my x55s, and it's happening on my x56.
now soon after the x56 launched Logitech bought out madkatz. I spoke with a Logitech rep and they admitted this was a big problem in these throttles and they were addressing it.
since then the x56 RGB has come out which according to Logitech has had a number of tweaks and is significantly better made. unfortunately mine isn't one of those so can't comment.
IF it were me and I had around £100-£150 to spend, I would do homework on the new x56. if they are fixed great, you won't go far wrong.... but failing that I would consider the thrust master T16000 FCS HOTAS
personally as I have 2 working sticks I am using my x55 and x56 sticks in a hosas set up. it's fun but neither joysticks are good for lefties so not ideal.
Correct, they have great ergonomics and are very well suited for Elite, and other flight sims.
This !
Mike, If you still have either of these 55 throttles on your attic somewhere and you open them up you will see that the rotating assembly for the throttle has like a cobwheel-like assembly. When the fabric contraption that keeps the thin wires together, which is not made to the full lenght of the cables gives way, the wires are exposed, and then it is only a matter of time until they are ground to shreds by you moving the stick back and forth when they get in between the cobwheel assembly. That was what snapped on mine when the thin cable that was controlling one of the buttons on the front of the X-55.
Logitech makes solid hardware, have been doing for ages, so no hiccups there, Their G-413 Carbon keyboard is epic and so are their mice.
In the beginning way back around when Elite Dangerous came out I played with joystick on the right, and an X-Box controller lying flat on the table rotated 90° on the left used like a hotas like so:
You can use the palm of your hand to control the thumbstick underneath as a throttle, and your index finger to rotate left and right. Both thumbsticks come with a button also which can be bound to boost and chaff. The D-Pad cross serves as either a menu selector or a power manifold for balanced/weps/sys/engines maximization.
Even the bump buttons and the triggers can be used as well as xyab and the two system buttons.
That is a great 'mobile' setup when you are using a laptop, and is also great with a mouse instead of the joystick. Mice come from Logitech... that's a no brainer.
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What do you use the Collective for?I you wanna go balls deep in ED and you have about a 1100 Euro and don't mind waiting I recommend this:
Collective
VPC Rotor TCS Plus Base
★ All Metal Adjustable Mechanism ★ Swappable Cam Plates to Limit the Travel Range ★ Adjustable Clutch ★ Throttle Twist Axis Input with Engine Idle Button and Switch RestrictorsSharKa-50 Collective Grip
★ Based on the Ka-50 Helicopter ★ Material - Enhanced PU Plastic Construction
The collective is used as such on my setup:
Red Button: Enter button for the menus / Select system in galaxy map
Grey Button above it: Back button in the menus / Go back to current system in galaxy map
Black Square (turtleshell) Button next to white button (its a 3 way switch) -up/down/button -
Up: Cargo Scoop
Down: Landing gear
Button: unused - since it's too easy to accidentally push the button and your LG or CS activates.
(could be used as an enter and back button also - up to you.
Next to it the round button is actually a 4-way D-pad with a button on click in the middle:
D-Pad:
In Cockpit and SRV : Navigate menu pages
Galaxy Map: translate left/right/forward/back
On Foot: strafe left-right / walk forward-back
Button: unused - since it's too easy to accidentally push the D-pad instead of straight down.
Switch above (zoom in and out of scanner) the thing that shows you the ship 'dots' on the central console in your cockpit
To the left, the black coolie hat switch does:
Left/Right: SRV/Ship: tab menus
Up/Down: Translate up and down on galaxy map
(I use my rudder pedals to yaw on the galaxy map)
Click coolie hat: Headlights / Torch on:
All the way to the right, the metal switch (CHNж- MAP) - Up jettison one cargo / Down jettison all cargo
Since I like to walk around in 'vanity cam' in Odyssey with my VR gear while on stations - kinda giving me an over the shoulder 3rd person perspective I like to use to have a full VR experience while on foot.
The grey button all the way to the left: switch to and from vanity cam to 1st person view.
The switch up switches to commander 2 view
The switch down gets rid of the hud on foot
I control the walk speed with the mouse wheel.
Rudder pedal push down pedal left: On foot Crouch
Rudder pedal push down pedal right: On foot Jump / Jetpack
Rudder pedal left/right: Ship rotate / SRV left/right
The collective stick itself, (the base), I keep 'pulled up' as it gives me a nice ergonomic setup next to the warthog that has other functions that need hands on approach without needing to switch the hand from one stick to the other, like weapons, directional thrusters and target selection for example.
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I have t16000m with throttle and Its working great. At first i had usual yaw problems but solving it is easy.
Biggest problem is wiring. You can see it when you disassemble covers. wiring of top buttons is in way of yaw potentiometer. Just pull them and then glue it to one of the covers.
Biggest problem is wiring. You can see it when you disassemble covers. wiring of top buttons is in way of yaw potentiometer. Just pull them and then glue it to one of the covers.
thanks for the reply. Makes sense for aux controls on a vr setup. I could figure out how the collective would be an improvement on the throttle as far as flight control was concerne.
Quick shoutout for any console players looking for an entry level HOTAS.
I just got a price drop alert - the Thrustmaster Hotas 4 (for for PS5 / PS4 / PC) is currently on sale on Amazon for just £49!
I just got a price drop alert - the Thrustmaster Hotas 4 (for for PS5 / PS4 / PC) is currently on sale on Amazon for just £49!