How and why is the meta killing the game?! Is it a problem with player expectations?

[jasonbirder]

I'm not making an "I hate PG/Solo" rant (I'll save them for a rainy day), but ED clearly caters to the solo player too much to be any kind of true natural galaxy

A galaxy in which EVEN a small proportion (1-2%) of peaceful Journeys Trade/Passeneger/Data Delivery etc etc resulted in destruction of the ship that was carrying out that journey, would be a Galaxy in which there was ZERO trade between systems...
(For example Ship Tonnage Losses during the Battle of the Atlantic ran at over 2% for a few months at its height...ENOUGH to have crippled the UK if it had continued for much longer and enough to ensure ALL merchant ships traveled in heavily escorted Convoys)
It'd also be a Galaxy which didn't have ENOUGH active trade to support any kind of Piracy etc...
So yes, MOST journeys being carried out without any risk or interruption DOES seem like a "True Natural Galaxy" to me

 

[Jack Schitt]

So how much better it could have been? On what basis people make that assumption?

The KS Campaign.
The KS FAQ.
The Development Diaries.
The DDF Proposals.

 

[Raumfahrer Spiff]

A galaxy in which EVEN a small proportion (1-2%) of peaceful Journeys Trade/Passeneger/Data Delivery etc etc resulted in destruction of the ship that was carrying out that journey, would be a Galaxy in which there was ZERO trade between systems...
(For example Ship Tonnage Losses during the Battle of the Atlantic ran at over 2% for a few months at its height...ENOUGH to have crippled the UK if it had continued for much longer and enough to ensure ALL merchant ships traveled in heavily escorted Convoys)
It'd also be a Galaxy which didn't have ENOUGH active trade to support any kind of Piracy etc...
So yes, MOST journeys being carried out without any risk or interruption DOES seem like a "True Natural Galaxy" to me

IMO, the only thing needed to make this applicable to ED is to make Security Levels a lot more robust and dynamic. In a High Security system, in the shipping lanes, you should have that sub 2% mortality rate.

The C&P/Noteriety system does start to address that a little bit, but a High-Sec system should feel drastically different from Low-Sec, and even more drastically different from Anarchy and Lawless.

#makeHighSecgreatforthefirsttimeagain

 

[Cmdr Eagleboy]

The KS Campaign.
The KS FAQ.

Only ticket from KS that isn't anymore is offline mode. Nothing else mentioned during KS promised anything beyond we have. KS didn't even had 3D cockpit. Seriously, if anything, FD has surprassed KS promises very considerably.

The Development Diaries.
The DDF Proposals.

All of those came with disclaimers attached about implementation not being there right at the beginning or not being implemented way it was described.

Said that supercruise, different level of persistent NPCs, passengers, etc. lot of things have been implemented from DDF. People mention DDF as it is some kind of Bible. In fact, it had lot of conflicting ideas and caveats about implementation.

So you don't like the game as you are posting here quite regularly?

I am sinner during my working hours. When I am home and playing, I don't even open forums.

 

[signal11th]

I think I can sum up the game with this comment. "I can fly across the known galaxy, I can buy the most powerful ships, I can watch a sunrise for an orbital body, I can kill and be killed countless times, I have more money than most small moons but I can't hire anyone to go and pick up some arsenic for me........." I love the game and play it all the time but as someone else said it literally has no meat on it's bones.

 

[crushdepth]

The KS Campaign.
The KS FAQ.
The Development Diaries.
The DDF Proposals.

Promotional videos showing epic space battles and dynamically assigned combat missions.
Other games.

 

[ilo]

There is this thing..

I watched the latest isinona's video yesterday, perfect timing.. he was scooping LTD canisters with a non-engineered Adder using silent running while an NPC anaconda was around. After quite some effort he got 500k from 11 LTD and called it success. Then there is the people in this forum complaining that an autopilot is needed, that 2000 rolls on an corvette is too much, 100 of each material's storage are not enough, need more module storage, nerf this buff that, passengers missions are not an exploit, etc... and no videos, no enjoyment.

If I had to listen to any of them, I wouldn't even care if they were the majority of the game. I see one person having fun and the rest whinging hard, I'd chose the fun.

Now, if you take a look and weight the 'complains that will make the game die', they are just all related to:
- quicker progression
- bigger damage per second
- immediate reward

I'm pretty sure no matter what you do, even if you give them what they want, these people will still find something else to complain about, or leave the game when they fulfil their egocentric achievement bucket.
- have all the ships: check
- have all the engineers: check
- have all the money: check
With this the game is over for them, hence they think the game is dead, or in the verge of doing it.

They prolly came to the forums, saw everyone posting their crap and thought they have not only the right to ask for a change, but also the obligation to threaten everyone else.

We are trapped in this: http://wiki.c2.com/?TheFiveMonkeys
I'm afraid we will keep getting monkeys trying to get the banana forever tho

 

[Raumfahrer Spiff]

There is this thing..

I watched the latest isinona's video yesterday, perfect timing.. he was scooping LTD canisters with a non-engineered Adder using silent running while an NPC anaconda was around. After quite some effort he got 500k from 11 LTD and called it success. Then there is the people in this forum complaining that an autopilot is needed, that 2000 rolls on an corvette is too much, 100 of each material's storage are not enough, need more module storage, nerf this buff that, passengers missions are not an exploit, etc... and no videos, no enjoyment.

If I had to listen to any of them, I wouldn't even care if they were the majority of the game. I see one person having fun and the rest whinging hard, I'd chose the fun.

Now, if you take a look and weight the 'complains that will make the game die', they are just all related to:
- quicker progression
- bigger damage per second
- immediate reward

I'm pretty sure no matter what you do, even if you give them what they want, these people will still find something else to complain about, or leave the game when they fulfil their egocentric achievement bucket.
- have all the ships: check
- have all the engineers: check
- have all the money: check
With this the game is over for them, hence they think the game is dead, or in the verge of doing it.

They prolly came to the forums, saw everyone posting their crap and thought they have not only the right to ask for a change, but also the obligation to threaten everyone else.

We are trapped in this: http://wiki.c2.com/?TheFiveMonkeys
I'm afraid we will keep getting monkeys trying to get the banana forever tho

Oh, apparently I can't give rep to the same comment twice.

 

[signal11th]

There is this thing..

I watched the latest isinona's video yesterday, perfect timing.. he was scooping LTD canisters with a non-engineered Adder using silent running while an NPC anaconda was around. After quite some effort he got 500k from 11 LTD and called it success. Then there is the people in this forum complaining that an autopilot is needed, that 2000 rolls on an corvette is too much, 100 of each material's storage are not enough, need more module storage, nerf this buff that, passengers missions are not an exploit, etc... and no videos, no enjoyment.

If I had to listen to any of them, I wouldn't even care if they were the majority of the game. I see one person having fun and the rest whinging hard, I'd chose the fun.

Now, if you take a look and weight the 'complains that will make the game die', they are just all related to:
- quicker progression
- bigger damage per second
- immediate reward

I'm pretty sure no matter what you do, even if you give them what they want, these people will still find something else to complain about, or leave the game when they fulfil their egocentric achievement bucket.
- have all the ships: check
- have all the engineers: check
- have all the money: check
With this the game is over for them, hence they think the game is dead, or in the verge of doing it.

They prolly came to the forums, saw everyone posting their crap and thought they have not only the right to ask for a change, but also the obligation to threaten everyone else.

We are trapped in this: http://wiki.c2.com/?TheFiveMonkeys
I'm afraid we will keep getting monkeys trying to get the banana forever tho

Problem is with this is the unfortunate fact that 90% of my time is doing exactly the same thing I was doing the very first day I started the game or a variance of it, now this doesn't mean I don't enjoy the game but it's a niche/marmite game you either enjoy it for all of it's obvious faults and carry on like I do or you just think meh "it's not really a game of sorts more of a interactive screen saver" and move on to other things.

 

[W4rSkuLL]

Well pointed out potential improvements not requiring space legs or anything.

Yes thx. I feel Frontier just need to add a little bit more flavor to many of its own ideas/abilities to draw in more commanders and a higher crowd. A little more persistence, survivability, interaction and uniqueness. Corpses in space and escape pods is also an idea which can bring a lot of new missions and possible careers in the game. The escape pod could be easily implemented as a detachable cockpit with its own engines. Or the commander chair could be pulled back into an armored retro type escape capsule and then shot out/ejected from the ship. This can again be captured or interacted with. High ranked pirates or power humans can be ransomed with or sold as slaves or be mission content. I feel the base inventory is in the E.D structure at the moment now we need the crystal vases, pictures and silver platting to be added. That is off course a synonym for the more specialized content in the game.

 

[verminstar]

I mean, seriously, the more I think about it the more baffled and disappointed I become. I wonder why a significant portion of the forum posters even bother with the game at all. I don't think this is due to any fault of the game in particular, just maybe player expectations about it. The negativity here hurts my soul, for goodness sake.

Look, I have high hopes for the game as well and would certainly like to see more from it, but damn. Chill out for goodness sake. It's like a bunch of rabid flatulent ducks foaming at the beak around here. Quack!

Sorry if I've compromised your missions in death thralling or something, but taking a step back and looking at the greater picture of things, this mess is the heart I'm left with.

Spoiler

https://i.imgur.com/ilnnoXJ.png

I guess there is a portion of people who don't like playing video games as a pastime.

I don't mean this to be a complaint thread, honestly, it's just an epiphany I came to.

Can't we just play the game sometimes? Can't we just not worry about meaningless grind and credits and materials and crafting for a while? Look, you all suck. I know it, you know it. It's OK to be bad at video games. Don't hate the game. [haha]

Repped. This is why I stopped using the forum so much and just limit meself to one or two comments in vague sub forums...past few weeks have seen this forum sink to new levels and fer once, I decided not to sink with it and just concentrate on my own game. So much happier fer it.

Its the same tired old tripe day in day out...just constantly whining and moaning about something...its exhausting just reading it sometimes so I just stopped. And now I just play my game, and Im lovin my game atm...and because Im lovin the game, that means Im seemingly in a minority if one was to measure the yardstick on the forums ^

 

[W4rSkuLL]

I think I can sum up the game with this comment. "I can fly across the known galaxy, I can buy the most powerful ships, I can watch a sunrise for an orbital body, I can kill and be killed countless times, I have more money than most small moons but I can't hire anyone to go and pick up some arsenic for me........." I love the game and play it all the time but as someone else said it literally has no meat on it's bones.

I agree. Elite was Elite in the eighties. This is the 21 century. Meat on the bones is important. To be able to build and interact with this meat is very much needed. If I could at least hire, interact and see something level up other than just myself and the ship would mean a lot for many. Even build a small mining rig some place in the galaxy would be great or a station.

 

[znôrt]

There is this thing..

I watched the latest isinona's video yesterday, perfect timing.. he was scooping LTD canisters with a non-engineered Adder using silent running while an NPC anaconda was around. After quite some effort he got 500k from 11 LTD and called it success.

isinona is one single outstanding player, he is an attraction in himself. yet you are yuxtaposing him with ...

Then there is the people in this forum complaining that an autopilot is needed, that 2000 rolls on an corvette is too much, 100 of each material's storage are not enough, need more module storage, nerf this buff that, passengers missions are not an exploit, etc... and no videos, no enjoyment.

If I had to listen to any of them, I wouldn't even care if they were the majority of the game. I see one person having fun and the rest whinging hard, I'd chose the fun.

Now, if you take a look and weight the 'complains that will make the game die', they are just all related to:
- quicker progression
- bigger damage per second
- immediate reward

I'm pretty sure no matter what you do, even if you give them what they want, these people will still find something else to complain about, or leave the game when they fulfil their egocentric achievement bucket.
- have all the ships: check
- have all the engineers: check
- have all the money: check
With this the game is over for them, hence they think the game is dead, or in the verge of doing it.

They prolly came to the forums, saw everyone posting their crap and thought they have not only the right to ask for a change, but also the obligation to threaten everyone else.

... the most pointless and embarrassing whining drivel you can find on the forum. which isn't even that statistically relevant. so ... i saw what you did there

which, incidentally, is no less cheaply emotional and empty as this particular rant from wr3nd. he too has seen better times.

there is tons of insightful criticism about a lot of aspects of the game on the forum, i'm sure with a little effort you might be able to spot it. but by now i'm inclined to think you're more interested in a primal (fanboyist) defense of your pet hobby than in any thoughtful discussion about the game.

We are trapped in this: http://wiki.c2.com/?TheFiveMonkeys
I'm afraid we will keep getting monkeys trying to get the banana forever tho

way to waste a good quote in a totally unrelated context.

 

[Cmdr Eagleboy]

isinona is good example is that you keep going at it, and get your skill up, you can enjoy parts of ED.

Issue is majority of complainers do not want engage with skill. For them 'skill' is knowledge to get their endgame ship. They want to skip parts of ED essentially not playing it.

ED is hard ticket. Play it or not play it. There's no middle ground. That's why so many struggle.

 

[ilo]

sorry znôrt, I tried to discuss with my dog, but it kept barking, and I know because I tried I got the same results with some people in the forum.

In my post I particularly specified two edge cases in totally opposed poles. I don't know what you think you saw there, but that is ok. I'm not a fanboy, unfortunately, I do acknowledge the game needs polishing, bugs are everywhere and some mechanics are way too complex.

It doesn't mean I agree with you at all

 

[znôrt]

we don't have to, ilo. there's actually not much to discuss here. op is miffed by some content he has found on the forum he apparently can't help but keep reading ... i think he is just angry.

 

[zombieapocalypse]

For me it ain't the meta killing the game. It's the game - or more specifically the lack of interesting and/or new things in it.
That's why I'm not playing it. I'm sort of keeping in touch with the forums, because...habit? Allegiance? HOPE? But in a very real way I wish I could just walk away from it all, in its entirety.

If you don't enjoy a game, you really should just walk away from it. There are so many games and other things to do out there and so precious little time to do them.

I walked away from Battlefield 1 and the BF clan I helped run for years because I hated the game. For a while I kept playing, but I was complaining constantly and getting very frustrated. And then I had an epiphany, why the hell am I wasting my time and mental health playing a game I clearly don't enjoy? Obviously, part of it was because so many of my friends play it and I like hanging out with them. But enough was enough, I had to move on...

 

[Kefhyr]

Well, as i see there are just different ways of thinking. I agree with Isinona example, this man really knows how to have fun and be good at it

There are people who grind missions, do re-logs, farm for best ships in game, farm for engineered modules etc and they think that's how it meant to be played.
And there are people who just fly in canyons with FA Off, who like SRV-riding on planets, who fly to Beagle Point or SagA. For example i like piracy, and i dont care that i spend 2 hours with 1-2 mil profit and you can do 50 mil in 20 minutes.

I really dont understand people who talk about grind, farm and other MMO-stuff. But i guess they cant understand my way of thinking too :d

 

[ilo]

Well, as i see there are just different ways of thinking. I agree with Isinona example, this man really knows how to have fun and be good at it

There are people who grind missions, do re-logs, farm for best ships in game, farm for engineered modules etc and they think that's how it meant to be played.
And there are people who just fly in canyons with FA Off, who like SRV-riding on planets, who fly to Beagle Point or SagA. For example i like piracy, and i dont care that i spend 2 hours with 1-2 mil profit and you can do 50 mil in 20 minutes.

I really dont understand people who talk about grind, farm and other MMO-stuff. But i guess they cant understand my way of thinking too :d

The point being is, you won't see isinona in the forums complaining about everything (and I'm sure he faces the same issues as everyone else), but you see how FD forums is populated with all this ED Farming simulator haters. They take over the forum because they don't like the game, it is just that.

 

[Jack Schitt]

All of those came with disclaimers attached about implementation not being there right at the beginning or not being implemented way it was described.

I had a whole bunch of follow-up questions relating to various points, especially this one. But do you know what? It's Friday afternoon, it's been a long week, I'm tired and I simply can't be bothered with this merry-go-round any more.

So you win. I concede. The game is a perfect implementation of everything FD presented in all of their material from 2012 to the present day. It has no shortcomings, it is in no way less that it could have been, and anyone claiming otherwise is deluded. Have a nice weekend.