How can CQC be revived?

[GeneralIdea1964]

I'd have the ships not upgradable in any way.
(I'd include this for in game upgrades. And would dump grinding mats etc. Just buy the upgrades!)
The is a problem that someone playing CQC for a while will have better equipment than someone new.

While skill and experience does make a difference, I'd be more inclined to jump back in if I though the other players only had the same level of ships available.

 

[Turd Ferguson]

Nobody = You

All CQC need be more popular:

• waiting for match while you are doing stuff in the main game
• earning more stuff for playing it (not only more CR, but some ARX as well, or rare materials would be nice)
• access to special paintjobs and decals for prestiged CQC players
• fix the bugs obviously

But I must say CQC on PC is doing fine, I have no problems with finding matches at all.. yes it's mainly Deathmatch, but on weekends it's possible to get random Team Deathmatches too. Capture the Flag is not popular and people prefer to play the other two.

I've heard PS4 and XBOX platforms struggle with low CQC population, even more reason for Frontier to give something to players to encourage them to play it. All you need is 2 people in a queue to start DM.

no. The problem with CQC is that it’s a one trick pony and boring AF. Bribing people to play it is not a good answer.

it was a tech preciew for Elite’s flight/combat model. Well Elite’s been out for a while and people are clearly not interested in playing the demo anymore.

Make it interesting or stop wasting time on it. There’s already plenty of bribing people to slog through boring content and trying to coerce players to become someone else’s content. Just make more content so that someone else doesn’t have to entertain you.

 

[Ian Doncaster]

Big thing it needs is a way to set up custom matches. The community that already exists around CQC is big enough that we could run tournaments etc. with that without Frontier needing to intervene.

It'd be an easy place to safely try out prototypes of crossplay, too, which would make things much easier for the smaller console communities without risking weirdness in the main game.

Make it interesting or stop wasting time on it. There’s already plenty of bribing people to slog through boring content and trying to coerce players to become someone else’s content.

Please be aware that as someone who monitors the BGS on a very wide scale, the only way you can avoid becoming my content is by sticking to uninhabited systems and never returning. (Or just don't log in, if you're really attached to the principle of not being someone else's content)

This is a multiplayer game - we're all supposed to be contributing to the content for everyone, whether that's by causing the BGS to be slightly less static than one person alone could manage, or by actually meeting up in our spaceships.

 

[FredTA81]

I actually love CQC, so yeah, it's definitely a shame its so hard to get a game, it's especially great if your 5kly away from home and miss flying wizzy ships

There is a discord for CQC to help you get games, so I guess one way to get the numbers up a bit more are to join the server and trying to get peeps in on it https://discord.me/elitedangerouscqc

 

[Turd Ferguson]

Big thing it needs is a way to set up custom matches. The community that already exists around CQC is big enough that we could run tournaments etc. with that without Frontier needing to intervene.

It'd be an easy place to safely try out prototypes of crossplay, too, which would make things much easier for the smaller console communities without risking weirdness in the main game.


Please be aware that as someone who monitors the BGS on a very wide scale, the only way you can avoid becoming my content is by sticking to uninhabited systems and never returning. (Or just don't log in, if you're really attached to the principle of not being someone else's content)

This is a multiplayer game - we're all supposed to be contributing to the content for everyone, whether that's by causing the BGS to be slightly less static than one person alone could manage, or by actually meeting up in our spaceships.

there's always that one guy that pipes up and says "technically...." in a way that makes all the hair on the back of your nut sack stand up.

yeah ok you got me there.

 

[Lateralus]

The only way to get more players (who will be lets face it, PvP enthusiasts) to play CQC is to bring in a main-game ships mode to it. PvPers don't really play it because it does not reflect PvP duelling in the main game really (when do players ever fighter vs fighter eachother in the main game? never).

Adding a main ship dueling mode to CQC would encourage competitive PvPers to use it instead of skulking around popular systems looking for random fights (gankers will still do that, it's hard to stop that). It would solve the instancing nightmares you get with organised events and enable a more formalised competitive side to the PvP game, which currently is all done through discord bots and other third party apps/websites.

Here is my full suggestion: https://forums.frontier.co.uk/threads/suggestion-cqc-duel-mode.424093/

Trust me, the fighter deathmatch format will never take off in this game.. It's main target audience (PvP community) is not interested in it in large enough numbers, only a small number of dedicated enthusiasts are.

 

[Icybow73]

But yeah, racing would be cool. You could buy stuff like a boost enhancer module, or some manouvering thruster improvement to prevent skids.

I've done some racing myself, and its it's fun!

Just get a ship that has size 2 or 3 thrusters, outfit it with enhanced performance thrusters, engineer it, and get it as light as possible. It could reach 900 m/s max boost.

 

[NeilF]

The only way to get more players (who will be lets face it, PvP enthusiasts) to play CQC is to bring in a main-game ships mode to it. PvPers don't really play it because it does not reflect PvP duelling in the main game really (when do players ever fighter vs fighter eachother in the main game? never).

Adding a main ship dueling mode to CQC would encourage competitive PvPers to use it instead of skulking around popular systems looking for random fights (gankers will still do that, it's hard to stop that). It would solve the instancing nightmares you get with organised events and enable a more formalised competitive side to the PvP game, which currently is all done through discord bots and other third party apps/websites.

Here is my full suggestion: https://forums.frontier.co.uk/threads/suggestion-cqc-duel-mode.424093/

Trust me, the fighter deathmatch format will never take off in this game.. It's main target audience (PvP community) is not interested in it in large enough numbers, only a small number of dedicated enthusiasts are.

You're telling me that CQC'esque (fighter) based gameplay in core ED, a space combat game, wouldn't be popular?

You're suggesting that a CMDR who has basic tactical control via (attack this/defend that) commands of a wing of NPC fighters (as per in the original design brief of Elite Dangerous), wouldn't enjoy escorting a convoy of cargo ships through an asteroid field under attack from pirate fighters?

You're suggesting that a CMDR and say three of his friends wouldn't enjoy undertaking a joint mission to holo-me into fighters based at a capital ship to defend a location from a wave of Thargoid Scout attacks?

You're suggesting that a CMDR and three of his friends wouldn't enjoy some orchestrated OPEN only PvP related combat scenarios against another Power Play Power as part of a task to affect the outcome over a disputed location?


The notion of using "main ships" opposed to fighters for combat within ED (PvE or PvP) to me also overlooks a serious issue. "Main ships" vary greatly in balance. Add to this Engineering, they've become dreadfully unbalanced (yes Engineering threw any last notion of sensible balance out of the door). But fighters as per available in CQC of course somewhat overcome this and would allow CMDRs to easy dive into a far more immediate and balanced format of combat, especially given some engaging and involved combat scenarios. And by "engaging and involved combat scenarios" I'm talking about the kind of gameplay mechanics that were available 25+yrs in other space games, but which in 2019, and 5+yrs in, ED still can't manage.

Standalone CQC was a poor idea from the outset and should have ploughed some much needed more gameplay and mechanics to leverage into the core game. Let's not throw more time at it when the core game is desperately screaming out for more depth, variety and mechanics to leverage.

 

[Ezren]

If they put NPCs in, at least you could get a match. That would attract Commanders, and eventually a critical mass would be achieved.

This is the basic, most simple thing. Nobody wants to just sit in a lobby.

Not being forced to sit in a lobby will draw more people in.

 

[Lateralus]

You're telling me that CQC'esque (fighter) based gameplay in core ED, a space combat game, wouldn't be popular?

It isn't, that's why this thread exists.

You're suggesting that a CMDR who has basic tactical control via (attack this/defend that) commands of a wing of NPC fighters (as per in the original design brief of Elite Dangerous), wouldn't enjoy escorting a convoy of cargo ships through an asteroid field under attack from pirate fighters?

Yes but that's PvE, I'm not saying that it wouldn't be enjoyed by some but you can already do similar things in the main game, just drop on a distress signal and protect NPCs from NPC attackers. CQC is supposed to be an option for PvP players to scratch their competitive itch right?

You're suggesting that a CMDR and say three of his friends wouldn't enjoy undertaking a joint mission to holo-me into fighters based at a capital ship to defend a location from a wave of Thargoid Scout attacks?

*Sigh, I haven't suggested that, but I'm not entirely convinced that PvE features (like bots and scenarios) will fix a PvP module (it definitely won't for PvP players, who are the intended audience).

You're suggesting that a CMDR and three of his friends wouldn't enjoy some orchestrated OPEN only PvP related combat scenarios against another Power Play Power as part of a task to affect the outcome over a disputed location?

No... that could be good fun. Are you trying to set a record for most strawman arguments in one post?

The notion of using "main ships" opposed to fighters for combat within ED (PvE or PvP) to me also overlooks a serious issue. "Main ships" vary greatly in balance. Add to this Engineering, they've become dreadfully unbalanced (yes Engineering threw any last notion of sensible balance out of the door). But fighters as per available in CQC of course somewhat overcome this and would allow CMDRs to easy dive into a far more immediate and balanced format of combat, especially given some engaging and involved combat scenarios. And by "engaging and involved combat scenarios" I'm talking about the kind of gameplay mechanics that were available 25+yrs in other space games, but which in 2019, and 5+yrs in, ED still can't manage.

I'm not suggesting main game duels replace the current CQC offerings, but complement them with a new mode option. CQC duels could offer some of the most balanced PvP combat in the game as you would be able to set the match options (engineering level, synth, ship types etc).

If fighters were the answer, then more players would play CQC, the fact they don't speaks volumes... it's not because of lack of bots, it's not because fighters are supposedly a level playing field, it's not because of lack of maps or powerups. It's simply because SL fighter battles do not compare to main-game PvP fights. You can't learn how to be a better FDL pilot or railgun module sniper or PA alpha specialist there and carry that practice over to the main game - that's what PvP players want to be able to do.

Learning how to be a good fighter pilot in CQC is for the most part wasted time when it comes to improving your main ship PvP skill. You may learn a little about pip management and FA-off as well as a few other bits, but the experiences are too dissimilar to satisfy the majority of the PvP community.

 

[NeilF]

It isn't, that's why this thread exists.



Yes but that's PvE, I'm not saying that it wouldn't be enjoyed by some but you can already do similar things in the main game, just drop on a distress signal and protect NPCs from NPC attackers. CQC is supposed to be an option for PvP players to scratch their competitive itch right?



*Sigh, I haven't suggested that, but I'm not entirely convinced that PvE features (like bots and scenarios) will fix a PvP module (it definitely won't for PvP players, who are the intended audience).



No... that could be good fun. Are you trying to set a record for most strawman arguments in one post?



I'm not suggesting main game duels replace the current CQC offerings, but complement them with a new mode option. CQC duels could offer some of the most balanced PvP combat in the game as you would be able to set the match options (engineering level, synth, ship types etc).

If fighters were the answer, then more players would play CQC, the fact they don't speaks volumes... it's not because of lack of bots, it's not because fighters are supposedly a level playing field, it's not because of lack of maps or powerups. It's simply because SL fighter battles do not compare to main-game PvP fights. You can't learn how to be a better FDL pilot or railgun module sniper or PA alpha specialist there and carry that practice over to the main game - that's what PvP players want to be able to do.

Learning how to be a good fighter pilot in CQC is for the most part wasted time when it comes to improving your main ship PvP skill. You may learn a little about pip management and FA-off as well as a few other bits, but the experiences are too dissimilar to satisfy the majority of the PvP community.

CQC has already failed. It has already squandered a lot of valuable development time that could and should have instead introduced fighter based gameplay mechanics into the core game which could by now have been leveraged for missions, Powerplay tasks, CGs, as well as adding some variety to the Thargoid Invasion snooze fest, across both PvE and PvP gameplay. So ploughing in yet more time into this stand alone development, instead of investing that time into a core game who's combat depth and scenarios even after 5+yrs are still woefully shallow, isn't wise IMHO.

Note: I enjoyed CQC for a couple of months off and on, and even got to something like a kill to death ratio of something like 20 if I recall (God VoiceAttack is useful ). But it's not what ED is about IMHO. ED is about being part of a huge ongoing universe and feeling you're a part of something bigger and affecting something if and when you can. ie: I'd much rather being flying a fighter against other CMDRs to affect a Powerplay outcome, or with other CMDRs to dictate if the Thargoids take over a system, than to just seeing a score at the end of a 5 minute arena battle.

 

[Powderpanic]

QCQ is fun for about 2-3 hours. Then it becomes dull as dishwater.

This is why many people started when it came out, it was pretty busy, we all ranked up the ships and then just stopped playing.

I got very very good very quickly and then after winning match after match with friends... we never went back.

Nothing to do with in-game lore or it being entirely separate to the main game in every way... It was just boring to anyone who was good at in-game PVP... Clearly it was pretty boring to anyone who wasn't.

Having an in-universe stadium you had to travel to and fit out your ships for some global ranking might be fun. The concept of SLF being useful in-game is just wrong, they really aren't. They are stupidly weak and there is just no reason to use one over a main ship other than as an extra npc hardpoint.

I REALLY wanted the SLF to be useful. I REALLY wanted Battlestar Galactica style drops and multiple ships dropping from the game.
Even if that was a thing. Multiple SLF vs a single real PVP ship, would lose almost all the time.

Powderpanic
The Voice of Griefing

 

[Lateralus]

CQC has already failed. It has already squandered a lot of valuable development time that could and should have instead introduced fighter based gameplay mechanics into the core game which could by now have been leveraged for missions, Powerplay tasks, CGs, as well as adding some variety to the Thargoid Invasion snooze fest, across both PvE and PvP gameplay. So ploughing in yet more time into this stand alone development, instead of investing that time into a core game who's combat depth and scenarios even after 5+yrs are still woefully shallow, isn't wise IMHO.

Note: I enjoyed CQC for a couple of months off and on, and even got to something like a kill to death ratio of something like 20 if I recall (God VoiceAttack is useful ). But it's not what ED is about IMHO. ED is about being part of a huge ongoing universe and feeling you're a part of something bigger and affecting something if and when you can. ie: I'd much rather being fly a fighter to affect a Powerplay outcome, or if the Thargoids take over a system, than to just see a score at the end of a 5 minute arena battle.

CQC is supposed to be an e-sport in game, so setting it up to affect galactic events too much wouldn't make sense... However being a sport it could be used to generate BGS bonuses for winning factions (like the happiness and prosperity bonuses). Concepts like powerplay and squadron matches would be a good start, complemented by more detailed league tables... but I doubt it will happen.

I bet nobody from Fdev has opened the CQC project in years and I doubt they are about to. It was a way of getting into the console market and nothing more.

 

[NeilF]

CQC is supposed to be an e-sport in game, so setting it up to affect galactic events too much wouldn't make sense..

Well, FD management made a poor choice making CQC a stand alone game (an "e-sport game"?), instead of investing those man hours and mechanics in fighter based gameplay and scenarios that could then be leverage in numerous places and ways in the core game (eg: Missions to defend a platform against pirate attack. Or escorting convoys of civilian ships through an asteroid field under atatck from Thargoid Scouts).

I'd dare say had they instead done that, we'd right now could have been seeing lots of CMDRs in fighter based battles both PvE and PvP, and a far richer and more varied and interesting ED for it. Instead we have a stane alone game that's all but collecting dust at the expense of a bucket of development time that wasn't instead used to move the core game on (which 5yrs on is still affecting it)!

 

[Powderpanic]

I'd dare say had they instead done what that, we'd right now could have been seeing lots of CMDRs in fighter based battles both PvE and PvP, and a far richer and more varied and interesting ED for it.

I am not trying to start an argument but that is never going to happen for the following reasons.

There is no reason at all to pick an SLF for player use over the most basic of PVP capable ships.
They do not have the shields or pack enough punch and their manoeuvrability is not enough to make up a viable advantage.

For them to make SLF viable in-game, you would first have to upset the entire community by making all the big ships handle like.. Big ships.

Currently, bar a few ships... (Cutters and T10) they all handle like fighters. Fighters that for the most part can use fixed weapons and without much issue, land a hit on an slf to one-shot it. All while the SLF tickle the stupidly large shield reserves.

You nerf the large ships, force them to run turrets and scale that down to make Vipers viable again.. Then you might have a place for SLF in game.

Can you imagine the fall out if you took away the fighter characteristics from the main game ships?

Would end up with a better game for sure but think about the crymmunity and the dev team. Just wont happen

Powderpanic
The Voice of Griefing

 

[Lateralus]

Well, FD management made a poor choice making CQC a stand alone game (an "e-sport game"?), instead of investing those man hours and mechanics in fighter based gameplay and scenarios that could then be leverage in numerous places and ways in the core game (eg: Missions to defend a platform against pirate attack. Or escorting convoys of civilian ships through an asteroid field under atatck from Thargoid Scouts).

I'd dare say had they instead done that, we'd right now could have been seeing lots of CMDRs in fighter based battles both PvE and PvP, and a far richer and more varied and interesting ED for it.

The thing is what you're describing is not 'arena' style gameplay, but scenarios much like are used for the training missions... I'm not saying it's a bad concept (though they probably wouldn't be any more popular than the training missions), but it isn't arena PvP gameplay, and that style of gameplay would be aimed at PvE players who already have lot's off options in the main game for cooperative PvE conflict - just go to a conflict zone, RES or thargoid area for example.

The intended audience for CQC is PvP players, who let's face it have nothing else in the game dedicated to their playstyle, and they don't even play CQC because it doesn't scratch the PvP itch they're looking for...

I agree that Fdev have made poor decisions though...

 

[mojonaut]

Disgusted that they even added it to the game, it wasn't in the game that we backed for, and all the wasted time that they worked on it could have been put to better aspects of the original game.
The sooner its gone the better.

Look on the bright side, while they're distracted with developing mini games, they're not adding more bugs to the main game.

 

[NeilF]

The thing is what you're describing is not 'arena' style gameplay, but scenarios much like are used for the training missions... I'm not saying it's a bad concept (though they probably wouldn't be any more popular than the training missions), but it isn't arena PvP gameplay, and that style of gameplay would be aimed at PvE players who already have lot's off options in the main game for cooperative PvE conflict - just go to a conflict zone, RES or thargoid area for example.

The intended audience for CQC is PvP players, who let's face it have nothing else in the game dedicated to their playstyle, and they don't even play CQC because it doesn't scratch the PvP itch they're looking for...

I agree that Fdev have made poor decisions though...

Yes, what I'm describing is absolutely not "arena" style gameplay.

And no, what I'm suggesting if fighter based gameplay had instead been invested in by incorporating it into the core game is not just PvE gameplay. While it could clearly be used on that front for things like defend this area from pirate fighters, or escort this convoy through an asteroid field under attack from Thargoid scouts, it could also be leveraged for some much needed PvP. eg: Offer orchestrated fighter PvP gameplay via CGs in OPEN or Powerplay tasks in OPEN. Heck, had Squadrons been done such that they were aligned with factions or powers, inter-Squadron PvP could even have been offered to allow fighter based PvP combat.

So, the notion of a stand alone arena game, and investing buckets of time in it was bad. FD should have instead added some much needs tools and depth (fighters and scenarios) into the core game that could have then leveraged and broadened the entire game experience, from PvE to PvP, from basic missions to alien invasions.

 

[Ian Doncaster]

Trust me, the fighter deathmatch format will never take off in this game.. It's main target audience (PvP community) is not interested in it in large enough numbers, only a small number of dedicated enthusiasts are.

Main CQC Discord: 2,662 members

Major PVP Discords
Galactic Combat Initiative: 1,831 members
PvP League: 424 members
ECCE: 728 members

Major Powerplay Discords
Federal United Command: 1,390 members
ALD Discord: 1,161 members
Alliance of Independents: 883 members
...and some other powers, right? Can't be bothered to look them all up but they're probably not significantly bigger.

...and for comparisions, some actual big ones
Fleetcomm Exploration Discord: 12,863 members
General Elite Dangerous Community: 15,730 members

All very inexact, of course, but it's not giving me a "CQC is a minority interest, unlike PvP which is super popular" impression. (In practice Powerplay probably easily beats both, and, well...)

Main-ship duelling wouldn't work particularly well with the CQC format, since the high-end engineered ships probably wouldn't die once in the 7:30 allowed for a free-for-all deathmatch unless they got unlucky, and the scores in 15 minute TDM would also be pretty low. I'm not saying a simulated duel tool (with manual lobbies and matchmaking) to save you the trouble of trying to get everyone together in the same system wouldn't be a good thing - absolutely it would - but if Frontier were going to implement one, starting from CQC wouldn't really gain them very much.

 

[Remus]

Custom lobbies (for easy private match & tournament setup)
In-lobby chat
NPCs to replace missing/dropped players
More maps and modes
Material rewards

What he said!