How come the Asiatic Black Bear has been classified as a specific subspecies, yet the Plains Zebra has not?

[RedPandaReggie]

The Plains Zebra as a species is made up of several subspecies, just a few include the Grant's, Burchell's and the Chapman's Zebras, they are all subspecies of the Plains Zebra, and how come the Asiatic Black Bear has been introduced via a rather obscure subspecies, the Formosan Black Bear. The same of the Timber Wolf, is it the Eurasian Wolf or the North-Western Wolf of North America, in my personal opinion, it is the North-Western subspecies, so why can't particular animals be classified as a subspecies when others are the Formosan Black Bear could just be the Asiatic Black Bear, so that it can be suited to more biomes than current, it is confusing in my opinion.
What are your thoughts on this topic

 

[markun]

so that it can be suited to more biomes than current, it is confusing in my opinion.
What are your thoughts on this topic

The biomes in the game are arbitrary and unrealistic. I recommend just playing in sandbox and ignoring most of the recommendations. I agree that it’s an odd choice of subspecies but again, I just ignore it and see it as an Asiatic black bear in general.

 

[DragonNTiger]

It's really weird actually... a lot animals have been given specific subspecies, but a lot of others haven't... it gets weirder when you realize some that have a subspecies don't need it (Lion, Chimpanzee) but some that do (Timber Wolf) don't get one...

 

[RedPandaReggie]

Exactly my point

 

[SalamAnders]

This can annoy me too, but I try to ignore it. To understand the difference between a species and a subspecies can be tricky. I see a lot of people mix it up on this and other Planet Zoo forums. In real life I know intelligent zookeepers with a good knowledge of animals who also tend to get confused by whatever to refer to something as a species or subspecies.

In the end, Frontier is a company making games. They are not biologist. Of course we can and should expect them to do their research, but mistakes will always happen, when you try to implement a scientific aspect into a game. I am not really surprised that this turned out to be one of the areas that turned out kinda odd.

I am just happy they at least try to be specific with the animals. Even though they sometimes are too specific and other times should be more specific.

 

[LN]

Maybe because there is a chance of having other subspecies of the bear but not for the Zebra's?

(I honestly don't think I need other subspecies of the Zebra).

 

[markun]

Maybe because there is a chance of having other subspecies of the bear but not for the Zebra's?

(I honestly don't think I need other subspecies of the Zebra).

Another Asiatic black bear subspecies would be completely pointless as they hardly differ in appearance so I really hope not.

 

[NL_Mutso]

Another Asiatic black bear subspecies would be completely pointless as they hardly differ in appearance so I really hope not.

I think he's referring to bears in general, not the Asiatic(black bear

What are your thoughts on this topic

Maybe it's just Plains zebra because we are only getting 1 zebra and more detail for the bear (subspecies) because they will add more bear species.
If you call it Asiatic Black Bear and add another black coloured bear from Asia - maybe casual players are more confused or have more arguments about similar bear species?
I think the overall player base are casual players and it might be more confusing if you add more species from 1 Family and aren't that specific.

So i'm guessing no more zebra species for PZ because they took the species name instead of any subspecies name.

 

[DragonNTiger]

I think he's referring to bears in general, not the Asiatic(black bear



Maybe it's just Plains zebra because we are only getting 1 zebra and more detail for the bear (subspecies) because they will add more bear species.
If you call it Asiatic Black Bear and add another black coloured bear from Asia - maybe casual players are more confused or have more arguments about similar bear species?
I think the overall player base are casual players and it might be more confusing if you add more species from 1 Family and aren't that specific.

So i'm guessing no more zebra species for PZ because they took the species name instead of any subspecies name.

Not only would adding another Asian Black Bear subspecies be incredibly pointless, but a lack of specific subspecies for the Timber Wolf didn't stop them from adding multiple specific subspecies of wolves.

 

[NL_Mutso]

Not only would adding another Asian Black Bear subspecies be incredibly pointless, but a lack of specific subspecies for the Timber Wolf didn't stop them from adding multiple specific subspecies of wolves.

We only got the Arctic Wolf as an extra wolf.

I think NZfanatic explained it perfectly multiple times on this forum - the whole Canis Lupus thing. The internet is not helping much because some refer the Timber wolf the same as the Grey wolf. While other name it a subspecies of the Gray wolf. The Latin name in PZ is not helping.

Going solely with the English names, I found this lovely quote: A timber wolf is a common name for several subspecies of grey wolf (Canis lupus). So all timber wolves are grey wolves, but not all grey wolves are timber wolves. (not a Wolf expert, so going with a summary of multiple sources on this one)

Arctic Wolf is not a subspecies of Timber Wolf but another subspecies of the Grey Wolf. Bu the latin name Canis Lupus in the Zoopedia is referring to all species of Grey Wolf without making distinction on subspecies. Wish they are a bit more clear on that one , seen multiple discussions only for this 1 thing.

Wikipedia:
Grey Wolf = Canis Lupus
Timber Wolf = Canis Lupus Lycaon
Arctic Wolf = Canis Lupus Arctos

 

[DragonNTiger]

Maybe because there is a chance of having other subspecies of the bear but not for the Zebra's?

(I honestly don't think I need other subspecies of the Zebra).

Is now a good time to point out the fact that there are three distinct species of Zebra?
-Equus quagga (Plains Zebra, what we got)
-Equus zebra (Mountain Zebra)
-Equus grevyi (Grevy's Zebra)
Seriously, they don't have to go with a subspecies for another Zebra, they could add a totally different species... which honestly would make way more sense, since Grevy's Zebra is the largest wild horse and one of the most endangered as well...

We only got the Arctic Wolf as an extra wolf.

I think NZfanatic explained it perfectly multiple times on this forum - the whole Canis Lupus thing. The internet is not helping much because some refer the Timber wolf the same as the Grey wolf. While other name it a subspecies of the Gray wolf. The Latin name in PZ is not helping.

Going solely with the English names, I found this lovely quote: A timber wolf is a common name for several subspecies of grey wolf (Canis lupus). So all timber wolves are grey wolves, but not all grey wolves are timber wolves. (not a Wolf expert, so going with a summary of multiple sources on this one)

Arctic Wolf is not a subspecies of Timber Wolf but another subspecies of the Grey Wolf. Bu the latin name Canis Lupus in the Zoopedia is referring to all species of Grey Wolf without making distinction on subspecies. Wish they are a bit more clear on that one , seen multiple discussions only for this 1 thing.

Wikipedia:
Grey Wolf = Canis Lupus
Timber Wolf = Canis Lupus Lycaon
Arctic Wolf = Canis Lupus Arctos

I don't see how this proves anything, we had a "Canis lupus nothing" and then we got two extra "Canis lupus subspecies"; the Arctic Wolf and the Dingo. Furthermore, while the term Timber Wolf is somewhat more specific than Grey Wolf, it doesn't apply to just one subspecies, but apparently several, all from North American I might add, which isn't what the Timber Wolf in PZ represents...

 

[NL_Mutso]

I don't see how this proves anything, we had a "Canis lupus nothing" and then we got two extra "Canis lupus subspecies"; the Arctic Wolf and the Dingo. Furthermore, while the term Timber Wolf is somewhat more specific than Grey Wolf, it doesn't apply to just one subspecies, but apparently several, all from North American I might add, which isn't what the Timber Wolf in PZ represents.

Yes, I've also seen the wiki entry for Timber Wolf.
In short: What's the point you are trying to make across?
I felt that your first reaction was a misquote of my comment and this comment is information.

Don't want to go to much offtopic with another wolf discussion but imo: Change the English name (which then would become a similar situation to OP's zebra discussion)
or change the Latin name (so pointing out that we have the subspecies in-game).

 

[ElectricMonk]

Whilst I don’t agree with NZfanatic that there’s a real issue with the wolves classification, they haven’t made any incorrect statements as far as I’ve seen and would 100% agree with the quote.

 

[DragonNTiger]

Yes, I've also seen the wiki entry for Timber Wolf.
In short: What's the point you are trying to make across?

shrugs ...pretty sure it was "going with a generic wolf didn't stop them from adding additional wolf subspecies, so why would adding a specific Asian Black Bear subspecies mean they planned to add more Asian Black Bear subspecies?" maybe... then you were all "something something Timber Wolf doesn't count because" and I think we all lost track of the plot...

 

[NL_Mutso]

Sorry, but your comments are a tough read. I'm just going to give up on that one.

Going back on-topic:
If you have that many bear species, it's a smart move to be more specific about the species.
People already complain they are too similar. At least the current name is helping for some people.

Maybe another reason: If you call the current bear the "Asian Black Bear" and add a completely different black coloured bear from Asia (Sun Bear) to the game - wouldn't that cause confusion to the general audience/casual player?
Therefore a reason to be more specific on the actual species?

 

[NZFanatic]

Going solely with the English names, I found this lovely quote: A timber wolf is a common name for several subspecies of grey wolf (Canis lupus). So all timber wolves are grey wolves, but not all grey wolves are timber wolves. (not a Wolf expert, so going with a summary of multiple sources on this one)

That's the thing, though - going with the common name by itself is just anti-scientific. The whole reason Latin binomials and trinomials exist is to be as taxonomically correct as possible when discussing different species and subspecies. Common names exist for the lay-man, but if you want something to be scientifically accurate, or if you're looking for a scientifically accurate answer, then you have to look at the binomial, and all the other information available.

Unlike the Formosan bear, the in-game 'timber wolf' is just the generic species (Canis lupus) despite being called 'timber wolf' (which, as I've said before, once upon a time used to be a generic name for the whole species, the same as 'grey wolf', but nowadays is usually only used in North America). Not only that, the map in the Zoopedia also denotes a range covering pretty much the whole northern hemisphere, which is more accurate to a generic species.

@Urufu1997's beef seems to be that the in-game wolf looks more like a North American wolf, and in one of the campaigns they make a reference to the Northwestern subspecies (Canis lupus occidentalis), therefore all other information can be totally ignored. I don't know why - given that it's a generic wolf you can use it how ever you want. If you want it to be a specific Northwestern wolf subspecies then go for it. Others, such as myself, prefer to use it as a Eurasian wolf, which is also perfectly valid considering it's just Canis lupus. There's literally no reason to take it so personally.

 

[HeatherG]

Hi everyone, if we could refrain from discussing members of the community opening on the forum it would be appreciated.
Thank you!

 

[NL_Mutso]

That's the thing, though - going with the common name by itself is just anti-scientific. The whole reason Latin binomials and trinomials exist is to be as taxonomically correct as possible when discussing different species and subspecies. Common names exist for the lay-man, but if you want something to be scientifically accurate, or if you're looking for a scientifically accurate answer, then you have to look at the binomial, and all the other information available.

Let's just disagree about your anti-scientific opinion.
We are talking about a video game. (Correct) common names are the standard.

 

[ElectricMonk]

The whole point of the binomial scientific name is that common names are ambiguous in many, many ways (especially since the game is presented in many different languages). There is no such thing as a ‘correct’ common name.

 

[NL_Mutso]

The whole point of the binomial scientific name is that common names are ambiguous in many, many ways (especially since the game is presented in many different languages). There is no such thing as a ‘correct’ common name.

Well, in every language you have a (correct) common name ?

People don't use the scientific names on this forum/discord/other platform/or in RL but use the common names, we all know what (sub)species they are referring to.
Ambiguous is highly debatable on that part.