How could player-owned outposts / bases work?

[Avetorian]

Defo not looking forward to that one.
Imagine some 14yr old noob learning on google how to steal a ship.Then coming back to see your fully A-Rated &Rngineered, Battle-Cutter worth .5Bil Credits flying out of the letterbox, with a cheapass, stripped down, sidey taking it's place...

o7

Unless you can afford the rebuy cost xD people are so afraid of player bases when at some point ship boarding is gonna be a thing i mean they even have concept art. Watch out.

There are SO many ways this could go wrong. There is just so much Fdev wants to do with this game, and either feature they implement could go either way.

 

[lenna]

Unless you can afford the rebuy cost xD people are so afraid of player bases when at some point ship boarding is gonna be a thing i mean they even have concept art. Watch out. https://elitedangerous2016.files.wordpress.com/2016/06/capture2.jpg?w=702

There are SO many ways this could go wrong. There is just so much Fdev wants to do with this game, and either feature they implement could go either way.

I believe that FD ruled out the stealing of other player's vessels but cargo theft could still be a possibility... also you have the potential risk of being spaced if discovered...

Concept art is a million miles away from a real solution and often the solution rarely lives up to the full expectations concept art (whether in static or video form) gives rise to.

 

[CoyoteXStarrk]

This is a contentious area but providing the initial cost is sufficiently high and the rewards are not too great (and require docking at said station to receive them) then I can see it not being too much of an issue. It may even need to be capped on a weekly basis.

However, the base should be affiliated with a minor faction and the player should probably only be considered a manager at best. As soon as we start being considered owners of a given facility then the problems start to surface wrt zones of control and arbitrary denial of access.

I see no issue with such a base retaining any trading inventory on transition between power play/BGS weeks but the rules for cargo quantities and trading restrictions should be as per normal BGS rules.

Since we are also talking about Power Play like mechanics, we probably should be limited to benefiting from one such station at any given time.

I don't understand you wanting the rewards to be "Not too great" while wanting it to cost alot to start?


Why the hell would people drop an enormous sum of money on something that they wouldn't get much return on? That makes no sense at all.


Or are you one of the people I have been hearing about that doesn't want other people to get what you view as "easy money"

 

[Mohrgan]

I don't understand you wanting the rewards to be "Not too great" while wanting it to cost alot to start?


Why the hell would people drop an enormous sum of money on something that they wouldn't get much return on? That makes no sense at all.


Or are you one of the people I have been hearing about that doesn't want other people to get what you view as "easy money"

I don;t think there should be a way to make credits with any kind of base. Any base I can see happening is one that is just a glorified parking garage. A permanent personal asteroid base for your ships and modules. Maybe a place to put up some trophies. Decals earned, that kind of thing. But, nothing more. We make credits through our individual actions, and I want it to stay that way.

FD should stay focused on content that all can use and enjoy. Not splitting content up based on your propensity to join quasi-political groups.

 

[CoyoteXStarrk]

I don;t think there should be a way to make credits with any kind of base. Any base I can see happening is one that is just a glorified parking garage. A permanent personal asteroid base for your ships and modules. Maybe a place to put up some trophies. Decals earned, that kind of thing. But, nothing more. We make credits through our individual actions, and I want it to stay that way.

FD should stay focused on content that all can use and enjoy. Not splitting content up based on your propensity to join quasi-political groups.

The way I described it on the previous page is EXACTLY that.

The maintenance of your base would be a weekly exercise that would require direct interaction from the player and the profit the station would be able to make would depend solely on the actions of the player during that given week.

It would not only be an individual action it would also be an individual undertaking on a scale bigger than anything in the game except the Powerplay we already have.

 

[illyTheKid TM]

Something like player owned, and most importantly player funded, bases could be an amazing endgame activity.

 

[lenna]

I don't understand you wanting the rewards to be "Not too great" while wanting it to cost alot to start?

It is all about game balance, risk reward, etc...

Even power play rewards are capped, and as I understand it being affiliated with a Power Play faction does kind of put a target on your back for NPCs representing the other Power Play factions.

The reason for a high startup cost is to keep it in-line with the lore of the game - c/f owning even an estate on a Coriolis ring is supposed to be reserved for the rich - how much such things are expected to cost is a matter that is unclear.

As for why people would drop an enormous sum of money to found a base/station, I would see there to be some kind of benefit from doing so other than simply gaining a periodic cash reward.

Overall, it is all about risk-reward balance rather than "easy money" per se. For all game play benefits there must be a form of cost associated with it.

To kind of put my viewpoint on balance in perspective, I am not against the stacking of missions but I am against the stacking of mission rewards where you are being paid twice for EXACTLY the same thing. A prime example is the "kill N of X" missions where you only have to kill the maximum of the N values where the X values are the same. Some claim this is comparable to the stacking of cargo or passenger missions but I believe it is not, the cargo/passenger stacking requires you to deliver specific NPCs/Cargo while the "Kill N of X" missions are too vague in that regard. FD's introduction of stacking limits for certain mission types does deal with the underlying problem to some degree but the "kill N of X" missions do still seem off to me.

 

[[Diplomacy] Carnegie]

Something like player owned, and most importantly player funded, bases could be an amazing endgame activity.

There's an endgame?

 

[lenna]

There's an endgame?

Only if you count when people get bored

 

[[Diplomacy] Carnegie]

Only if you count when people get bored

Wouldn't that be a 'boredgame'

 

[Mohrgan]

If I can take a moment to be dismissive... These requests, ones for bases and credit sinks like them, stem from the need of some folks to be handheld, and guided to the completion of a task. No matter how monumental, they will have the magnetic draw to propel their investment of time into the game. They have had success with mechanics like these in other games, and long for that kind of success again. Tangible, measurable and definite.

That is the cynical argument I could lay at the feet of pro-base commenters. But it isn't fair. Just like the arguments people like to perpetuate about those that don't favor the inclusion of large scale asset building mechanics.

Take from this what you will.

 

[lenna]

Wouldn't that be a 'boredgame'

That is bad even by my standards, and that is saying a lot.

Anyway, I think the key points to take away from this discussion are that:-

1. Expectations wrt player built bases vary from low to high
2. There are careful balancing factors that need to be considered across ALL game play features wrt player bases
3. If done in the wrong way, player bases could effectively wreck gameplay from some people's perspectives
4. No matter what is done in this area, at least some people will probably be unhappy with the results (either because they do too much or do too little)

 

[Avetorian]

If I can take a moment to be dismissive... These requests, ones for bases and credit sinks like them, stem from the need of some folks to be handheld, and guided to the completion of a task. No matter how monumental, they will have the magnetic draw to propel their investment of time into the game. They have had success with mechanics like these in other games, and long for that kind of success again. Tangible, measurable and definite.

That is the cynical argument I could lay at the feet of pro-base commenters. But it isn't fair. Just like the arguments people like to perpetuate about those that don't favor the inclusion of large scale asset building mechanics.

Take from this what you will.

I don't see how player agency is hand holding, quite the opposite in fact, because again the people who do this stuff have done this in other games, and know exactly why they would want a base in another MMO with the potential to have them, a base is a broad term in general to begin with, if the completion of the game was building a base that would be one thing. As I've said before this is the third time i'm saying this, it's all about their purpose, their function, and the players ability to extend their influence through the use of these things. Bases could be no more than just a tool an Advanced AFMU to maintain extended deployments long term out in the void. They could be a point of settlement for player colonization to spear head player influenced NPC expansions of the bubble, they could be anything. Regardless it is obviously something A LOT of people want to see player infrastructure of some kind. There is more than enough room in the galaxy, none of you will care what other players do when the time comes.

There's an endgame?

Yes there is an end game, in the sense of you have accomplished goals you set out for yourself and are playing the game in the capacity you aimed for. Each individual has their own "End game" until something else comes along that captures their interests.

 

[Mohrgan]

I don't see how player agency is hand holding, quite the opposite in fact, because again the people who do this stuff have done this in other games, and know exactly why they would want a base in another MMO with the potential to have them, a base is a broad term in general to begin with, if the completion of the game was building a base that would be one thing. As I've said before this is the third time i'm saying this, it's all about their purpose, their function, and the players ability to extend their influence through the use of these things. Bases could be no more than just a tool an Advanced AFMU to maintain extended deployments long term out in the void. They could be a point of settlement for player colonization to spear head player influenced NPC expansions of the bubble, they could be anything. Regardless it is obviously something A LOT of people want to see player infrastructure of some kind. There is more than enough room in the galaxy, none of you will care what other players do when the time comes.



Yes there is an end game, in the sense of you have accomplished goals you set out for yourself and are playing the game in the capacity you aimed for. Each individual has their own "End game" until something else comes along that captures their interests.

Totally missed the point. Thanks for sharing.

 

[Avetorian]

Totally missed the point. Thanks for sharing.

Then what is your point? You just said

These requests, ones for bases and credit sinks like them, stem from the need of some folks to be handheld, and guided to the completion of a task. No matter how monumental, they will have the magnetic draw to propel their investment of time into the game. They have had success with mechanics like these in other games, and long for that kind of success again. Tangible, measurable and definite.

I said what I said because I don't understand your point, some games have a definite end involving a base, other games don't I mean I apologize for misunderstanding you but I don't see how it comes from the need to be hand held, but then again I don't understand the hand holding argument either because for instance people wanting a storyline to follow get attacked for the same thing, and just because a game has a narrative does not mean there is hand holding, Dark souls for instance is a great example of this. So no I don't understand the point.

I just think the complex mechanics of owning an maintaining a base are not stemming from the hand holding party, hand holding in games is more referred to as the game being made too easy is it not?

 

[Hedyn Brand]

I'm not seeing the connection between player-owned bases and hand-holding either. I think bases in any form would be an advanced thing complicating the game for players who choose to get them anyway. Bases could be a long-term investment, or a complete failure, where you place them in a system you hope will be colonised. Until then you're looking at frequent pirate attacks, lack of resources and trade and generally a hard time running it. But that would be part of the fun, right?

On entering the game there might be reports of a pirate raid on your base, and you get a certain amount of time to get to it. That automatically ensures players won't try to stretch themselves too thin with many bases (if more than one per player were also to be allowed). If you can't get there in time it's disabled, will cost a bunch to repair and all benefits from it stop working - no trade, no facilities, just a lone landing pad and some miserable employees threatening to quit. It doesn't have to be easymode all the way, and it can be a challenge without having to also be a huge time sink.

They could start out as minimal outposts too, with no facilities beyond a landing pad and refuelling. Or just a landing pad - basically a bedroll for your ship

 

[MarkSimpson UK]

I see the ability to "lease" sections of planetoids from local or larger system authorities. Here, one could buy and "plant", certain facilities on the surface to act as exploration bases to map/scan the resources BENEATH the surface. Once an area is mapped, maybe other SRV's could be designed to dig down into the surface and extraction plants installed, to process the spoil? Apart from the obvious mineral and water deposits, the "dirt" could be crafted into building materials and enhancements to the works made to provide shelter from gamma, and other harmful radiation? ...UNDER GROUND! This would provide attack proof shelters for settlers, ships, stores, and traded goods. The inspiration, would you believe it, was the need to find FAST shelter in Minecraft, where digging-in was more effective than trying to escape "baddies" by building above ground!
Settling systems and planets should have a "human" element to it! History has shown the first human instinct, when exploring, is to place "staging posts", forts, trading posts and other permanent infrastructure along our route, so the exploration becomes a VIABLE proposition, AND it is so much easier to find your way back home with booty, or return to take advatage of resources and .....HERE'S THE BIG ONE! ....MAKE A HOME! ...one of, if not, then THE biggest need of ANY human! Space stations and exisating settlements are a useful stop-gap, but will never satisfy the NEED for a HOME to put down roots in! Roots grow in the ground, NOT in the stars! I am worried that future Thargoids (or others?) may be able to wipe out Star Ports like they wiped out the capital ships! How many players have fleets stationed at Jameson Orbital? Take that place out and there will be some VERY unhappy space-bunnies out there! Just think! if you want to stop mankind "infesting" more of YOUR space, would you NOT take out their PRIMARY means of support outside their home systems? I WOULD! This makes mankind's dispersal to seperate, subterrainian, settlements, more and more logical!

Just some thoughts I had after watching the recent Mars settlement and deep space travel documentaries on the BBC!

 

[acg515]

It could be cool but I could only see single man operations being able to build small stations - those huge stations would probably take billions and billions of credits. It would be kind of like owning a gas station, in that you could sell fuel, repair ships, and restock ammo to make money.

I think it would be a pain in the behind but I could see it happening.

 

[Kingston@#]

I would like POB added. though I think it should only be available in open play.

 

[Ralph Vargr]

There's an endgame?

Yes. Therapy, with a certified mental health counselor.