How do I kill the things?

[Krieger]

Patently false. If FA-off boost flipping is your only counter to an attack then you're in for a tedious gaming experience, not to mention somewhat limited success in defeating your foes.

I do not agree. Look at some combat footage and you'll see how often boost-flips are used (both PvE and PvP). The higher ranked NPCs use it a lot too. It is an effective way to break out of the line of fire especially since G5 DDs gave us much higher speeds. And with perma-boost (Charge Enhanced PD) it can be repeated every 5 seconds or so.

If you mean boost-flipping isn't always the best tactical option, then I agree. Once you start boost-flipping the fight becomes difficult to control and becomes a tedious boost-flip-aim-shoot cycle indeed. But NPCs boost-flip a lot (esp. in CZs) and a well-timed counter boost-flip is often needed.

 

[Darkslayer]

Also look into boost bleeding. When being facetanked aim below their bow, boost, FA off, pitch up and then use your vertical thrusters to stop your momentum from moving you past their stern. Most ships do not have turrets and therefore only fire forward. Large ships with turrets can't focus them all on you if you are on their belly.

 

[Cmdr Esteban]

I do not agree. Look at some combat footage and you'll see how often boost-flips are used (both PvE and PvP). The higher ranked NPCs use it a lot too. It is an effective way to break out of the line of fire especially since G5 DDs gave us much higher speeds. And with perma-boost (Charge Enhanced PD) it can be repeated every 5 seconds or so.

FA-off boost flipping has its uses, to be sure, but to rely on it exclusively is tactically very limited, as I said. When you want to break the cycle, then what?

Strafe your target - keep in close and don't let him get the bead on you which would open the gap for his next boost-flip run.

If you mean boost-flipping isn't always the best tactical option, then I agree. Once you start boost-flipping the fight becomes difficult to control and becomes a tedious boost-flip-aim-shoot cycle indeed. But NPCs boost-flip a lot (esp. in CZs) and a well-timed counter boost-flip is often needed.

Precisely - don't give your opponent the chance to open up that gap for a boost-flip and joust, that is my point. Rather boosted translational thrusters to flank, flank, and flank again.

 

[Globusdiablo]

...
It's also important to realise that they probably aren't really outmaneuvering you most of the time. We players usually try to get behind them AND face them at the same time while they are just trying to face you. Doing one thing is pretty easy, doing both can get very difficult. So when people say that NPCs are more maneuverable they usually just don't realise what's going on.

This.

 

[dekot]

A lot of it depends on the target ship. I mainly use small ships myself and in my experience ships like the FAS and vulture are much tougher than pythons and anacondas.

And as for your stalling problem, that depends on your ship. The DBS has insane pitch speed but very weak acceleration so if you only pitch the entire fight, you will "stall" a lot. tbh you shouldn't have that problem in a courier. It's hands down the very best small combat ship and very forgiving to fly.

 

[Morbad]

NPCs are both aim-bots and flight control computers.
They can input an unlimited number of commands at the same time, never suffer coordination malfunctions or any physical limitations. They get all the benefit of flying FA Off, without ever having to turn it off.

They have built in jitter/inaccuracy and obey all FA On limitations.

Large ships with turrets can't focus them all on you if you are on their belly.

There is still a bug where NPC ships with turrets won't turn them on you if they don't hit you with forward facing weapons first. Nine times out of ten when I am in a small ship facing a large NPC that doesn't have a fighter, I don't take any damage.

[video=youtube;g22IXU57NYo]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g22IXU57NYo[/video]

Other examples: https://forums.frontier.co.uk/showt...ntil-they-have-scored-hits-with-other-weapons

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pwIBz-noZ2M

 

[60mm]

You can certainly take down Elite non-engineered NPCs with an un-engineered ship. I regularly dismantle high ranked NPC Corvettes with only 2 Railguns and take few, if any, hits. IMO, dual sticks is really optimal for space flight as thruster control is crucial. If I were you, I'd pick up a T16000M so you have real control over your thrusters. I find it really helpful to bind some joystick buttons to 0%/50%/100% speed and have my left stick Y axis set to control forward/back thrusters. Setting your speed to 50%, for example, will set your joysticks centered speed at 50%. This lets you speed up and slow down as necessar, while returning you to 50% when you let off. Very handy for maintaining ideal speeds and far far better than a throttle for combat. When you find out how much control analog inputs give you for thrusters, you'll wonder how the hell you ever flew tapping your thrusters at 100%.

Go to a ring and practice by picking out an asteroid a few Km out, getting there quickly, and going into orbit around it while keeping aimed at it. Spend some time practicing with your dual sticks and you will see huge improvements in your piloting.

P.S. Your throttle will still be handy. I have an X52 throttle myself, which i prefer for Supercruise throttle/FSS and other non-combat duties. Remember you can have the same control bound to 2 different inputs.

 

[CMDRHLM]

When I get home I'll see if I can upload some combat footage which might help with showing what I'm doing wrong.

What it comes down to, and the reason I am flying these puny ships right now in the first place, is after struggling so much with my main combat ships (FDL, Imperal Clipper, and previously, Vulture) I went and bought the smallest, nimblest ships I could find, and try to learn to fly again. My thought process was I wouldn't be able to take the AI head-on, but I should at least be able to get behind them. I didn't even want to shoot them - just out-turn them. But still I couldn't. So then I'm thinking if I can't turn properly in an eagle, what chance do I have in a clipper? Then that's how I end up here asking just how much of an unfair advantage the AI has.

I remember looking around online when I was outfitting my various ships, and being discouraged by so many people saying essentially it's pointless trying to use this particular ship. If you want to win, just use this one. I found it such a shame if that's the case, because I have these ships which are so enjoyable just to fly around in, but I still want to use them in combat.

 

[Spacecat]

Engineering makes a huge difference and is now basically essential. At this point, if all you are playing is the "base" game, you might as well stop.

 

[Morbad]

The higher ranked NPCs use it a lot too.

NPCs never use FA off.

They do boost flip, on occasion, but it's all FA on.

I remember looking around online when I was outfitting my various ships, and being discouraged by so many people saying essentially it's pointless trying to use this particular ship. If you want to win, just use this one. I found it such a shame if that's the case, because I have these ships which are so enjoyable just to fly around in, but I still want to use them in combat.

Fortunately, those people are all wrong.

At this point, if all you are playing is the "base" game, you might as well stop.

I don't agree.

I still get the craving for some Viper III nostalgia from time to time, and build myself an unEngineered one...it does fine, as long as I avoid CMDRs in Engineered vessels that want to shoot me down. Of course most CMDRs that don't know me think it's an Engineered ship too fast/durable to pop, and those that do know me know that I can escape even with the unengineered ship, so problems are rare.

 

[Bob Lighthouse]

If you're ending up flying backwards use a lighter touch, and use your vertical thrusters to help you pitch.

This series is a good start:

[video=youtube;XjYeCs5MA18]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XjYeCs5MA18[/video]

 

[[VR] M4st0d0n]

They should release moar expensive small ships in Beyond Beyond. With the stupid powercreep they carelessly deploy it could make small frames a logical option again.

 

[Hacker#451563]

I still get the craving for some Viper III nostalgia from time to time, and build myself an unEngineered one...it does fine, as long as I avoid CMDRs in Engineered vessels that want to shoot me down. Of course most CMDRs that don't know me think it's an Engineered ship too fast/durable to pop, and those that do know me know that I can escape even with the unengineered ship, so problems are rare.

This is the right attitude to emulate for a new pilot (or old one that want to fight better).

"Everything has to be engineered to the ends of the earth to even have a chance" is well off course.

I got to Master rank in a Viper III before I'd ever unlocked an engineer. I died a few times but it doesn't really matter because you can learn fast and it's cheap.
I see some people talking about how they're "a 100 mill or so off that fully engineered A-Rated 'Conda so they'll soon be able to REALLY start to play ED" and I shake my head sadly then smile at all my great memories of pulse-racing combat in a small ship it takes less that a day to earn.

 

[Sylow]

Fortunately, those people are all wrong.

.
Mostly. I have a very short list of ships I'll never use, because I find them inherently flawed. Then there's all the small ships. Of which I appreciate many, but I have a hard time to honestly advise somebody to use. With engineering and some very agile medium ships around, I have a hard time advising anybody to stick to a small ship. They are great to learn and also great for having fun, but most small ships, in my eyes, currently can't really compete with mediums any more.
.
But even more often, people should not ask the question "is the ship any good?" They'd rather try to question themselves: "do I like how it handles, does it fit my style of flying?" Unfortunately that's not something a stranger on a forum can give you the answer to, but it should be the actual way of deciding which ship you want to use.
.

 

[Iskariot]

We have the advantage of organic brains.

In my case that is not much of an advantage...

 

[Krieger]

NPCs never use FA off.

They do boost flip, on occasion, but it's all FA on.

Yes, that's what I meant. I didn't make that clear enough.

NPCs do try to boost-flip (in FA-on) a lot, especially in CZs, but only if you let them. Your video shows very nicely how to prevent NPCs from boost-flipping. In that situation I think they only try to if your position shifts too much to the back of the ship. It happens two times in your video. One time the flip sort half succeeds before you caught up with it again. Nice flying btw.

 

[Ddraig]

You aim your ship to your target and proceed to pew pew pew pew pew pew!!!
and it eventually goes booom!!

easy.

 

[CMDRHLM]

I've uploaded a couple of videos to take a look at.

The first is the battle with the Federal Corvette I mentioned previously:

[video=youtube_share;sC29oir8_L4]https://youtu.be/sC29oir8_L4[/video]

Second is with a Python where I was just trying to stay behind him without firing until I got thrown off:

[video=youtube_share;zz-jlOSQuP0]https://youtu.be/zz-jlOSQuP0[/video]

You can see what I have mentioned previously where I find myself getting thrown into reverse after boosting/turning, which pretty much ends the fight there and then.
Someone mentioned using a "lighter touch" to prevent this. Is it just my use of thrusters that is causing this? I figured out some time ago that if you tap the vertical thruster for more than a second when pulling up hard, it can have disastrous effects. Is there anything else to it?

 

[CMDRHLM]

If you're ending up flying backwards use a lighter touch, and use your vertical thrusters to help you pitch.

This series is a good start:

I've watched those a few times now. Everyone always points to these videos, and while they are excellently made, the "series" is exactly 2 videos long, and covers only the basics which I think I've got down now

 

[Bob Lighthouse]

I've watched those a few times now. Everyone always points to these videos, and while they are excellently made, the "series" is exactly 2 videos long, and covers only the basics which I think I've got down now

Then do what he shows in the second video at about the 1 min mark.
I don't see you trying that at all.

It looks like you are using too much pitch.
I use full vertical thrusters all the time but too much boost+full pitch will do that, especially with something like a DS4 in my experience.

You're also in a tiny ship so I'm not sure if your expectations are too high.
You should not be able to go toe to toe with a medium, much less large combat ship.

Looks like you collided in the first one?
0 pips to sys won't help your shields at all.
Try to boost/pitch less and use more vertical thrusters, so you can stay perpendicular and don't spin out backwards.