How do Module Reinforcements stack?

[Scoob]

Hey all,

I thought I understood how Module Reinforcement stacked when more than one was fitted. However, having watched a couple of YouTube videos recently where it's mentioned that "fitting more than one isn't really worth it" and that the second, and subsequent ones make little difference, I thought I'd ask here.

Firstly, my perhaps incorrect understanding was as follows (made up hit point numbers):

- Module Reinforcement 1 gives a 60% reduction to incoming Module damage up to it's hit point value of 200.
- Module Reinforcement 2 effectively takes over once 1's hit points are depleted, offering the same 60% reduction to module damage during its lifetime.

In essence, I thought these Modules worked together in effect, each in turn offering that 60% damage reduction until their hit points are depleted. Perhaps damage can be spread over two or more, so 20 Damage done after the 60% reduction, might take 10 points each off two Reinforcement Modules for example. This is why, I thought, having more than one simply adds to the overall pool of hit points so that 60% damage reduction is applied while any Module Reinforcement still has hit points.

Now, perhaps that's totally wrong, but it made sense to me - I cannot even recall where I got this information originally lol - however, I'd like to know how it really works, assuming the videos talking about diminishing returns is correct.

Cheers,

Scoob.

 

[Riverside]

One depletes, then it starts on the next. If you have more than one & an AFMU you can repair one while another absorbs damage.

 

[Borko]

Diminishing returns. The second gets you to 85%, the third to 90 or somewhere close (i forget).

The general consensus is that more than two is wasted space. There’s a chart of progressive coverage floating around somewhere in the forum.

 

[Scoob]

One depletes, then it starts on the next. If you have more than one & an AFMU you can repair one while the other absorbs damage.

Oh, so my understanding is basically correct then? Where's this talk of diminishing returns coming from then? I didn't save the videos - just been watching random YouTube recommendation lol - so I cannot share them.

Diminishing returns. The second gets you to 85%, the third to 90 or somewhere close (i forget).

The general consensus is that more than two is wasted space.

Ok, now I'm confused again. Is there perhaps a source that explains this? Sounds like the sort of thing Down to Earth Astronomy might have dug into... I'll have a search.

Basically, the hit point value depleting I get, it's just how those resistances stack, or don't, that I'm not clear on. I guess it's perhaps like other resistances like Shield Boosters having diminishing returns to resistances?

Scoob.

 

[here_it_comes]

Ok, now I'm confused again. Is there perhaps a source that explains this? Sounds like the sort of thing Down to Earth Astronomy might have dug into... I'll have a search.

As only one MRP is effected by incoming damage, it seems the game checks each MRP if it will block the damage before moving onto the next. So, if you have 2 class D MRPs, the first has a 60% to absorb the damage. If it fails, 40% chance, the next MRP has a 60% to block the damage in the remaining 40%, which is 24%. Totalled, that gives the twin Ds an 84% for one of the two to absorb the damage. A third would have a 60% chance to block the damage in the remaining 16%, which is 9.6% for a total of 93.6%. Given the fact the increasing Hull reduces odds of Module penetration, a third MRP isn't likely to be as effective as a HRP, but you would have to run the math on a specific build if you really wanted to minmax it.

 

[Scoob]

As only one MRP is effected by incoming damage, it seems the game checks each MRP if it will block the damage before moving onto the next. So, if you have 2 class D MRPs, the first has a 60% to absorb the damage. If it fails, 40% chance, the next MRP has a 60% to block the damage in the remaining 40%, which is 24%. Totalled, that gives the twin Ds an 84% for one of the two to absorb the damage. A third would have a 60% chance to block the damage in the remaining 16%, which is 9.6% for a total of 93.6%. Given the fact the increasing Hull reduces odds of Module penetration, a third MRP isn't likely to be as effective as a HRP, but you would have to run the math on a specific build if you really wanted to minmax it.

Ah, I see. That's perfect, thanks for explaining!

Scoob.

 

[[VR] Orodruin]

The general consensus is that more than two is wasted space. There’s a chart of progressive coverage floating around somewhere in the forum.

This depends on what the build is for. AX builds will often include three (G)MRPs because module damage is a very common cause of failure (in particular blown canopies).

In some crazy situations, AX builds will even equip four (G)MRPs. An example of this would be when going for an interceptor kill with the HUD turned off (killing a Medusa this way is one of the harder challenges within AXI). As you cannot really see the panel to repair your modules, the addition of a fourth (G)MRP instead of the normally equipped AFMU then serves as additional module hitpoints and an additional buffer if your main MRP should be destroyed.

 

[Cmdr Nemo]

Does the diminished return thing also apply to shield booster. I mean is more than two just waste?

 

[Bigmaec]

Does the diminished return thing also apply to shield booster. I mean is more than two just waste?

Sadly not, at least not for raw mj.
Resistances have diminishing returns.

 

[Riverside]

Does the diminished return thing also apply to shield booster. I mean is more than two just waste?

Shield boosters stack. For PvE once any essential modules for the job the ship is for are filled I'll usually fill the rest with shield boosters & use their engineering & special effects to balance out the shield resistances so extra boosters can be handy for their engineering even if the shield size is big enough anyway

 

[Cmdr Nemo]

Shield boosters stack. For PvE once any essential modules for the job the ship is for are filled I'll usually fill the rest with shield boosters & use their engineering & special effects to balance out the shield resistances so extra boosters can be handy for their engineering even if the shield size is big enough anyway

So how do you engineer your shield booster's and which experimental?

 

[here_it_comes]

Does the diminished return thing also apply to shield booster. I mean is more than two just waste?

You can stack your Shields to the Heavens and back. Ludicrious Shields are FD approved, Hull tanking is frowned upon and actively discouraged. Don't dare to fly dangerously, CMDR!

 

[Dragsham]

That depends.
Shield boosters come in A rated top notch but heavy and use alot of juice, to D & E rated ones that give a smaller mj increase but using alot less power and less mass.
Resistance augmented is self explanatory.
Thermal, kinetic, etc also self explanatory.
Heavy duty super capacitors will give alot of extra mj at the expense of weight and alot of power used.
Experimantals are self explanatory too and you can engineer all types at one engineer.
Very heavy on mats usage if you stack these.
And along with a shield cell bank or two you can really go cap shields. 7k on a cutter as l recall...prismatics.

 

[Riverside]

So how do you engineer your shield booster's and which experimental?

Depends on the ship but a general rule I start with is half boost resistance, the other half boost the total health pool, then usually I experiment for thermal resistance.

How it should be done according to the meta is for people more knowledgeable than me to advise on, I usually fiddle with builds until they do all the things I want then leave it as good enough.

 

[Bigmaec]

So how do you engineer your shield booster's and which experimental?

Reinforced shield gen, one booster thermal resist, one resistance augmented, all others heavy duty, all super capacitors.

 

[Just Paul]

For thermal bi-weaves, 2 res-augmented and the rest HD, again all super cap.

Module reinforcements are prioritized in the order they show up in the right hand panel. So your bigger ones are first and the smaller ones last. That's why combos like one size 5 and one size 1 work. Don't put MRPs into military slots as they are always at the bottom of the list. Therefore if you have a size 5 there and a size 1 in a normal slot the size 1 will take priority and deplete first. Nobody wants that.

 

[Vetinari]

Shield Boosters - Add 20% of base not stacked.

so 100 Shield
= 120 1 Booster (+20%)
= 140 2 Booster (+16.66%)
= 160 3 Booster (+14.28%)

and so on, so each SB is worth less of a % than the 1st, diminishing returns.

Module & Hull

100 Damage =
40% 1 MRP (-60% reduction until HRP dead) = 60% dmagae reduction
16% 2 MRP (-60%+(40%-60% or 40 x 0.6) = 24% damage reduction

so 1st does 60% protection, stacked 2nd adds 24% of original 100%. Not another 60% of 100% which would effectively be 0% until MRP dead.

So it doesnt stack, it penalises you by diminishing the % gain each way but the module weight and size remain the same, so the extra weight isnt worth the initial extra weight. Makes the game much more tactical and stops 0 damage builds being possible.

 

[CMDR X]

This depends on what the build is for. AX builds will often include three (G)MRPs because module damage is a very common cause of failure (in particular blown canopies).
...

I can vouch for this. My shieldless AX Crusader doesn't have a chance with only two MRPs. The canopy pops too easily. Three however, get me through the battle.
Wish I had one more slot I would add a fourth one. (I know the Chieftain is supposedly better for AX, but I like the Crusader more and she gets the job done too)
X.

 

[[VR] Orodruin]

I can vouch for this. My shieldless AX Crusader doesn't have a chance with only two MRPs. The canopy pops too easily. Three however, get me through the battle.
Wish I had one more slot I would add a fourth one. (I know the Chieftain is supposedly better for AX, but I like the Crusader more and she gets the job done too)
X.

Well, Chief may be meta and what I primarily fly, but the Chally can certainly hold its own and may AXI commanders fly one (the additional dps doesn't hurt). AX combat can be done in basically any ship if you have the skills to do so.

 

[Morbad]

MRP resistances stack multiplicatively but they are depleted sequentially.

Ventinari is correct about protection rate. You just take the damage allowed by all of your MRPs and multiply it together....0.4*0.4*0.4 or ~93% resisted for three D rated MRPs, for example; halving that value for attacks against most 'external' modules (I think only weapons, utilities, and the cargo hatch currently...thrusters and perhaps canopy are external for splash damage, but get internal module protection from MRPs). Once one fails, you lose it's protection, knocking you down to 84% in this example, then to 60%.

Depletion priority:

Interesting observation regarding MRP depletion priority

Figured I'd test this again since it's been quite a while, so I fired up the beta (wanted the most recent build of the game as 3.3 is about to drop and I doubt this will be changed when it goes live) and equipped a T-10 with seven flechette launchers and various permutations of MRPs. I then...

forums.frontier.co.uk

Oh, so my understanding is basically correct then?

No.

As only one MRP is effected by incoming damage, it seems the game checks each MRP if it will block the damage before moving onto the next. So, if you have 2 class D MRPs, the first has a 60% to absorb the damage. If it fails, 40% chance, the next MRP has a 60% to block the damage in the remaining 40%, which is 24%. Totalled, that gives the twin Ds an 84% for one of the two to absorb the damage. A third would have a 60% chance to block the damage in the remaining 16%, which is 9.6% for a total of 93.6%. Given the fact the increasing Hull reduces odds of Module penetration, a third MRP isn't likely to be as effective as a HRP, but you would have to run the math on a specific build if you really wanted to minmax it.

There is no RNG in how MRPs themselves work.