Like I said above - maybe you missed the memo but that's kind of the point of the game.
How FD can fend off a hypothetical goon takeover (or even a real one)
- Thread starter William Prospero
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Like I said above - maybe you missed the memo but that's kind of the point of the game.
Unnecessary solutions to a nonexistent and unlikely problem.
No, and there are mechanisms around that.
More the Informal alliances between players with the same intention. That's what the Crimson Hand folk were doing. Any group of players looking to switch a system, that's what they are doing.
As for "starter areas" well maybe Frontier need to look at a better police response in that area? Other than that, there isn't anything else except to suggest go into solo or private groups if you don't want to potentially interact with other players - or maybe get out of starter areas ASAP?
This thread worries about something that basically as said by others is a non issue, the Goons can't do what they do in Eve in Elite simply because the game mechanics are very different and while I will openly admit that in Eve the Goons tend to be massive jerks and I've lost ships to them suicide ganking etc the majority of them in other games are very different people, great example I believe you'll find is Scott Manly you know the some what famous Kerbal and the like youtuber? Fairly certain he was/is a goon but outside of eve great person.
The big thing is EVE is centred around Player vs Player combat in every regards.. and CCP centre the enforcement of 'grudges' in the game by using IN GAME tools, their entire game is built around the aspect that your all powerful etc etc etc.. Killing other players is part of that.
In Elite however the gameplay is different, ok Piracy exists both in AI and Player form and yeah you can and likely will at some point run into another player who WILL shoot you if you play open, but again it's PART of the GAME, there is a difference between grief and just acting out the role you want to be.. And a lot of people on these forums do not seem to understand the difference.. Have there been cases of Grief? Yes but at the same time People HAVE THE TOOLS (the modes or even hypering to another system etc) to get around it.
If for example Mondog found me out in space dropped me out, shot me up, killed me etc for my cargo or a bounty.. that isn't greifing me.. at all doesn't matter if he told me to drop my cargo or not..
However if he constantly found me and shot me than it becomes 'greifing' because it's stepping beyond the scope of the game and becoming harrasment.. but again I would have the tools to get around it by changing to Solo and I can also report him and let frontier decide if THEY need to take action.
No offense Mondog either was just using you as an example
On the suggestions:
1. you already get a massive jump in a bounty based on if you kill instead of shooting. But it IS part of the game and even the pilot federation acknowledges that Piracy happens.
2. Bounties aren't cleared by death, they go inactive until you commit a crime at which point the system knows your not dead and your bounties return in full.
3. No, don't agree bounties aren't payed off at a 1:1 rate you know... you pay EXTRA ontop of the bounty because your having to pay the legal costs etc etc (in game) to get your record cleared off and pay out those who put the bounty on your head.
4. Ok so your complaining about people killing and then saying let them kill to clear their name.. that's.. ironic.
5. Why? They can just kill each other 1000000000 times if they want.
6. They already DO get unfriendly with a system and watch how often you get pulled out of FSD, or if your caught on a scan how quickly they turn hostile on you etc.
7. No they send what they have around.. you can have a 100credit bounty and end up with an Anaconda kicking your rear.
8. Most don't unless they have a faction with enough power to produce a security force.
I don't like the goons anymore then the next Eve player (within EVE) given I like to mine and the like and they like to Hulkaggedon my ships.. but sorry I don't agree with you. And stop presuming that they are automatically 'bad' people everywhere. gesh
The big thing is EVE is centred around Player vs Player combat in every regards.. and CCP centre the enforcement of 'grudges' in the game by using IN GAME tools, their entire game is built around the aspect that your all powerful etc etc etc.. Killing other players is part of that.
In Elite however the gameplay is different, ok Piracy exists both in AI and Player form and yeah you can and likely will at some point run into another player who WILL shoot you if you play open, but again it's PART of the GAME, there is a difference between grief and just acting out the role you want to be.. And a lot of people on these forums do not seem to understand the difference.. Have there been cases of Grief? Yes but at the same time People HAVE THE TOOLS (the modes or even hypering to another system etc) to get around it.
If for example Mondog found me out in space dropped me out, shot me up, killed me etc for my cargo or a bounty.. that isn't greifing me.. at all doesn't matter if he told me to drop my cargo or not..
However if he constantly found me and shot me than it becomes 'greifing' because it's stepping beyond the scope of the game and becoming harrasment.. but again I would have the tools to get around it by changing to Solo and I can also report him and let frontier decide if THEY need to take action.
No offense Mondog either was just using you as an example
On the suggestions:
1. you already get a massive jump in a bounty based on if you kill instead of shooting. But it IS part of the game and even the pilot federation acknowledges that Piracy happens.
2. Bounties aren't cleared by death, they go inactive until you commit a crime at which point the system knows your not dead and your bounties return in full.
3. No, don't agree bounties aren't payed off at a 1:1 rate you know... you pay EXTRA ontop of the bounty because your having to pay the legal costs etc etc (in game) to get your record cleared off and pay out those who put the bounty on your head.
4. Ok so your complaining about people killing and then saying let them kill to clear their name.. that's.. ironic.
5. Why? They can just kill each other 1000000000 times if they want.
6. They already DO get unfriendly with a system and watch how often you get pulled out of FSD, or if your caught on a scan how quickly they turn hostile on you etc.
7. No they send what they have around.. you can have a 100credit bounty and end up with an Anaconda kicking your rear.
8. Most don't unless they have a faction with enough power to produce a security force.
I don't like the goons anymore then the next Eve player (within EVE) given I like to mine and the like and they like to Hulkaggedon my ships.. but sorry I don't agree with you. And stop presuming that they are automatically 'bad' people everywhere. gesh
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Solo or Private Group = no problems, can enter / leave Lave just fine.
I started my first ever Rare Trades run yesterday, in the middle of death squad time.... just me and a friend.... was peaceful and profitable.
DB said all ready, FD will monitor for griefers and just pop them in to a private instance so they only have each other to grief.
There are tools to enjoy the game without them and FD are actively watching.
I played a lot of Jumpgate and Shadowbane, usually as the underdog. Both of which were persistent worlds with virtually unrestricted PvP that featured very harsh consequences for dying and virtually no consequences for killing players that were not themselves player enforced...and they were awesome.
The sky is falling! The sky is falling! No wait I mean the sky might fall! The sky might fall!
I wouldn't worry about hypotethicals, otherwise we can gaze into our crystal balls and dream up a million doomsday scenarios. Solo mode negates it all anyway, players could hop into solo, fly somewhere else, go back to Open. Even without that, the odds of appearing in a different instance, particularly with the blocked list, are high. Neither is possible in EVE, where if you leave a station, the exact same people will always be out there. If hundreds organize most likely there'll be 32 of them in their particular instance, with no-one to gank but themselves.
I wouldn't worry about hypotethicals, otherwise we can gaze into our crystal balls and dream up a million doomsday scenarios. Solo mode negates it all anyway, players could hop into solo, fly somewhere else, go back to Open. Even without that, the odds of appearing in a different instance, particularly with the blocked list, are high. Neither is possible in EVE, where if you leave a station, the exact same people will always be out there. If hundreds organize most likely there'll be 32 of them in their particular instance, with no-one to gank but themselves.
There are mechanisms around that in other games too, but seldom to they do much good.
Informal alliances are all well and good, but I speak from experience when I say you find a lot of players getting in on the controlling action.
Everyone says "Just go Solo" - what if people want to have player interaction? How do new players know their way around to be able to leave starter areas quickly? There is a learning curve - a steep one at that! Besides, if everyone goes solo that is less people to ally with those trying to stop this Lave blockade for example. That simply leads to an ebb and flow of player absence.
The other side of this coin is that people in solo and private groups also effect the background simulation that open players also interact with.
There is nothing to stop a group of players going into a private group and all picking the same side and having a greater effect than players who choose to play in open in flipping a system - and there is no way for the players in open to counter that by being able to stop them in PvP encounters.
So for example if group A of 1000 players decided to flip Lave to Federation control in a private group, and there is group B of 600 players in open wanting to keep it Alliance there is NOTHING that can be done to stop that private group.
(They might as well just both play in Private groups and never interact with each other and just try change numbers rather than actually play a game against each other)
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Stench, less people to stop what blockade? You can bypass the blockade.. so how is it a blockade? That's the point people are making. If you want Player Interaction then you have to deal with the consequences of it.. being shot at and killed etc isn't against the games rules at all it's a major part.
On new people not wanting to be shot etc.. welcome to Elite you can be pulled out of FSD by an AI and killed just as quickly as a player.
Also Geolocation, network ports, ping times etc etc etc etc etc all effect who you get put with on open play.. simply closing out the game and coming back in you may find that your no longer being matchmade with the same group of people in open.
On new people not wanting to be shot etc.. welcome to Elite you can be pulled out of FSD by an AI and killed just as quickly as a player.
Also Geolocation, network ports, ping times etc etc etc etc etc all effect who you get put with on open play.. simply closing out the game and coming back in you may find that your no longer being matchmade with the same group of people in open.
Even if they played in open how is 600 people going to stop 1000 people flipping a system ?
No "epic" battles, out numbered on the mission front and most interdiction / PvP is a 1 on 1 - so your still 400 people short of stopping the flip, be it in open or private
I think you are missing the point - it's not about the numbers.
You could have 500 on one side and 500 on the other, and the same scenario - if neither group plays in open and in their own private groups not interacting with each other then all people in open see is numbers changing but no actual conflict.
Yes there is no "epic" battles on the scale of Eve but if there are also no players in conflict zones because they are in their own private bubble then it simply comes down to who has more time on their hands to play in the private group wins - rather than putting up players to fight each other with any skill.
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it comes down to that anyway, even in open - after years of Planetside I found out there are people all over the world making changes to a persistent world while I'm in bed. Those with higher numbers or more time will win - private or open, does not matter.
{edit - spelling update}
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Of course it's the same - in Eve too, it comes down to when the Sov counter expires in a system and if the attacker has been sensible they'll have timed it to be at something like 4-5am for the majority of the opposing side. Don't worry I get that.
But at the same time the issue is exacerbated by the fact that now the groups can also choose to do it in a completely private bubble with zero risk of interacting with any players and only having to deal with NPCs who hardly provide and challenge.
If the goons come I say "welcome" - more players to liven up the galaxy.
100K is much better than the 4K or so you get now
You have to remember 2 things:
100K is much better than the 4K or so you get now
You have to remember 2 things:
- The Elite Federation of Pilots (that only players belong to) takes a dim view of murder.
- Such a bounty could discourage others from killing players
- Bounties need to be paid for upon death which should slow / halt exploitation of the system.
- I am hoping (not sure) that if you go bankrupt you need to wipe your commander, which means any progress is lost, so pick your battles carefully.
- The "spirit" of an ED pirate is not to kill people
- Not all mechanics are in place yet
- The original idea (source DDF & FD) was that there would be a piracy role and associated rating.
- The pirate would "declare piracy" and if they still killed their victim (making them a murderer) that would harm their progress
- Murderers are welcomed in the game, you just have to live by the consequences of your actions
- If you want to kill people become a bounty hunter.
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Lave is not the only starter system, I started in LHS 3447, not sure how many there are but any group joining the game, should be spread across them.
On the contrary, I have high confidence in people to use the tools at their disposal.
As I said in my first sentence, a large group could indeed cause disruption and annoyance. However, that can be easily worked around, and players are smart enough to do that. It quickly becomes pointless dominating empty space, and people are smart enough not to do that either.
The problem might exist in every MMO you have played, but it does not exist to the same degree in every MMO. It can be a defining issue in some and a side issue at best in others.
As I said in my first sentence, a large group could indeed cause disruption and annoyance. However, that can be easily worked around, and players are smart enough to do that. It quickly becomes pointless dominating empty space, and people are smart enough not to do that either.
The problem might exist in every MMO you have played, but it does not exist to the same degree in every MMO. It can be a defining issue in some and a side issue at best in others.
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