How? For the umpteenth time...I apologise!

[jack6251]

I'm very sorry for asking this...I know it's been covered and I also very much know I may incur the wrath of ED experts however...how is it possible NPC ships are able to turn on a dime, still have power to shields and weapons and appear as though they're actually firing from rear mounted weapons, when in fact, they've more or less instantly turned on you. I then, follow x, y and z guides to upgrade this and that and can never perform to the same values.

Is it the case the Devs have somehow written things to be this way so as to keep us on our toes?

No, I'm not a die hard player but I would like to enjoy what little free time I have around work to play this game in a way I seem to be edging forward and not being out manoeuvred by mid ability NPC ships that literally appear as though they're able to decelerate, turn on the spot, reactivate shields, have energy for weapons and engines and rinse and repeat time and again when all the advice I can find is "stay in the holy moses "blue". Wow...So, I'm a lower level player just wondering what's going on with NPC ships that appear to do all these things that we can't.

Thank you...and I'd really love a grief free set of replies if it's possible Seriouslywhat's going on with this turning on a dime thing?

 

[Factabulous]

FA Off, turn, FA On*. Plus stay in the blue, manage pips, engineering.

* yeah, some stay FA Off - I wouldn't recommend it myself if you're having issues with NPCs

 

[jack6251]

Thank you...really....but it's their "turn on a dime" thing that we/I can't seem to generate then if you track the npc ship, it looks like they're really firing from rear mounted weapons which they aren't...it's that they've turned so fast, your EYEBALLS aren't able to determine what's going on...so, fairness of gameplay by the Devs to allow such abilities in NPC's and not we...they paying players...I can't wrap my head around this.

 

[Codger]

It's been stated many times by the Devs, and even by the programmer who does the ship AI (the famous Mother of Minions, Sarah Jane Avory), that the ships do NOT cheat. They just fly better and make excellent use of pips and thrusters, and have of course fast reaction times.

Some people don't believe this. I personally have never seen an NPC ship do something impossible, but opinions vary

This is from a while back, but you may find it interesting to see what she said:

https://www.reddit.com/r/EliteDangerous/comments/4lmhmm Source: https://www.reddit.com/r/EliteDangerous/comments/4lmhmm/fd_ai_programmer_sarah_jane_avory_comments_on/

 

[jack6251]

It's been stated many times by the Devs, and even by the programmer who does the ship AI (the famous Mother of Minions, Sarah Jane Avory), that the ships do NOT cheat. They just fly better and make excellent use of pips and thrusters, and have of course fast reaction times.

Some people don't believe this. I personally have never seen an NPC ship do something impossible, but opinions vary

This is from a while back, but you may find it interesting to see what she said:

https://www.reddit.com/r/EliteDangerous/comments/4lmhmm Source: https://www.reddit.com/r/EliteDangerous/comments/4lmhmm/fd_ai_programmer_sarah_jane_avory_comments_on/

I understand it may have been mentioned MANY times which is why I tip toed in with my bowing and respectful approach to this HOWEVER I can't find a definitive answer...which, is kinda why I posted the question...

I'm sure if I had the computing reflexes of Data from Star Trek I too could maximise my abilities and it not be considered cheating.

 

[Faded Glory]

I'm sure if I had the computing reflexes of Data from Star Trek I too could maximise my abilities and it not be considered cheating.

You've kind of answered it yourself. NPC's (high ranking ones at least) are much better at pip management than the average human. They are computer programmes and don't fumble and put pips exactly where they need them to maximise the capabilities of their ships and weapons.

So yes, when they turn they have 4 pips to ENG which makes their ships pretty responsive (they don't use FA off, but you can to make your turns snappier), and by the time they've turned they have pips back to WEP so have plenty of energy to fire their weapons at you. Higher ranked NPC's also use thrusters pretty effectively.

The link that Codger provided will let you read it from SJA's words, and there's no reason not to believe it. And try it yourself, find a harmless NPC and see how much easier they are to beat than a higher ranking one.

 

[jack6251]

You've kind of answered it yourself. NPC's (high ranking ones at least) are much better at pip management than the average human. They are computer programmes and don't fumble and put pips exactly where they need them to maximise the capabilities of their ships and weapons.

So yes, when they turn they have 4 pips to ENG which makes their ships pretty responsive (they don't use FA off, but you can to make your turns snappier), and by the time they've turned they have pips back to WEP so have plenty of energy to fire their weapons at you. Higher ranked NPC's also use thrusters pretty effectively.

The link that Codger provided will let you read it from SJA's words, and there's no reason not to believe it. And try it yourself, find a harmless NPC and see how much easier they are to beat than a higher ranking one.

Sure, and I appreciate everything you've said, however it does seem to be that computing power vs computing power, "they"...the NPC's, are able to determine, predict and output a probable action based on factors unseen to us the humans. For example, triangles on stick do not highlight direction, distance or rotation of an enemy and this is what we're left with determining from our HUD and radar display. The NPC's seem to have access to more data to determine their best solution than we do.

 

[Faded Glory]

Well yes. The NPC is focused on you the target. I don't think they can predict anything, but they know if you are out of range of their weapons and won't shoot if that's the case, they know where you are and try to turn themselves to face you so they can shoot when they are in range.

And much of that info is available to us. The location of a ship is shown on your scanner, whether it's in front, behind above or below you, and the distance is available to you so long as you have it targeted. Position / rotation relative to you also can be determined if you have the ship targeted by looking at the hologram display on the left.

As I said before, they are computer programmes and as such are totally focused on one thing (you the target) and have no distractions. It can certainly be frustrating to feel you are being outmaneuvered, but much will depend on the rank of the NPC, and if you are having issues pay attention to that. The idea is that NPC's scale to provide a challenge to all players so the higher ranking ones are meant to be capable pilots, and one day you'll look back and realize that they're not as omnipotent as you feel they are now, and that with engineering (which very few NPC's have) your ship(s) are way more powerful than theirs!

 

[jack6251]

I exhale, more relaxed with gratitude. Thank you!

 

[CMDR Flavius Funk]

I'm very sorry for asking this...I know it's been covered and I also very much know I may incur the wrath of ED experts however...how is it possible NPC ships are able to turn on a dime, still have power to shields and weapons and appear as though they're actually firing from rear mounted weapons, when in fact, they've more or less instantly turned on you. I then, follow x, y and z guides to upgrade this and that and can never perform to the same values.

Is it the case the Devs have somehow written things to be this way so as to keep us on our toes?

No, I'm not a die hard player but I would like to enjoy what little free time I have around work to play this game in a way I seem to be edging forward and not being out manoeuvred by mid ability NPC ships that literally appear as though they're able to decelerate, turn on the spot, reactivate shields, have energy for weapons and engines and rinse and repeat time and again when all the advice I can find is "stay in the holy moses "blue". Wow...So, I'm a lower level player just wondering what's going on with NPC ships that appear to do all these things that we can't.

Thank you...and I'd really love a grief free set of replies if it's possible Seriouslywhat's going on with this turning on a dime thing?

It does seem like they have lower inertia or something. You aren't the only one who feels that way.

The pips thing makes sense, and instant response time.

You can confuse them though and I can have elite ships just hover in front of me while I destroy them.

 

[nosleepdemon]

OP an interesting side effect of movement without an obvious frame of reference is that delta velocity between two objects becomes hard to rationalize. In space if you have no static frame of reference with respect to yourself and your opponent you may observe seemingly impossible movements. For example it may look like your opponent is turning on a dime but they might actually be spinning about with flight assist off. That dime turn is actually a drift.