Astronomy / Space How gravity works: the fundamentals
- Thread starter Squady
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Gravity isn't a force. It's a byproduct of the curvature of space/time due to the presence of mass. Now, just what causes mass?
That's not controversial at all, not anywhere in science not anywhere on Earth everyone just thinks the creationists are mental and mocks them endlessly.
I like your gnome idea though can you tell me more?
Anything that effects anything else by some means is a force or something where a force is involved. The power of love is a force, even though lovons are mysterious particles.
I'll of course cite the power of love so as not to appear foolish:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5boRQcTvnwU
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CMDR_Orlando
Banned
Thank you for this, amazing 
You understand that science doesn't care what something *actually* is, right? Reality is a question for philosophy.
Science is the process of created *models* that make accurate predictions about observed behavior. If the model is 100% accurate, it's relationship to "realness" is indeterminable but also irrelevant.
Science is the process of created *models* that make accurate predictions about observed behavior. If the model is 100% accurate, it's relationship to "realness" is indeterminable but also irrelevant.
I don't think we can truly understand the complexities of the universe. We can only create analogies to concepts we understand on earth.
We are not designed to exist outside this planet therefore why would we have the capability to understand what is beyond?
It would be like asking a cat to drive a car.
The cat knows the car exists, it knows it moves, it may even understand that it moves when a driver is present. But how can it understand it in relation to catching mice, sleeping and crying for attention?
I think the analogy of a bedsheet and the demonstration in the video is the best, albeit in reality space time is in 3 dimensions. Plus the analogy and demonstration is affected by gravity on earth!
Also think of two people holding hands and spinning each other, if roughly similar weight then they spin at uniform centre. If differing weights the centre moves towards the bigger one. Same in terms of object orbits.
Simplistic concepts to represent a much more complicated structure, especially considering 3 dimensions and the fact that every affects everything else, ie its not just the moon and earth but the sun and other planets plus other stars and the galaxy affecting each other. Even other galaxies affect each other. So there becomes infinite interactions in at least 4 dimensions.
Fortunately Science and Engineering is all about simplifying concepts for our simple brains to understand.
We are not designed to exist outside this planet therefore why would we have the capability to understand what is beyond?
It would be like asking a cat to drive a car.
The cat knows the car exists, it knows it moves, it may even understand that it moves when a driver is present. But how can it understand it in relation to catching mice, sleeping and crying for attention?
I think the analogy of a bedsheet and the demonstration in the video is the best, albeit in reality space time is in 3 dimensions. Plus the analogy and demonstration is affected by gravity on earth!
Also think of two people holding hands and spinning each other, if roughly similar weight then they spin at uniform centre. If differing weights the centre moves towards the bigger one. Same in terms of object orbits.
Simplistic concepts to represent a much more complicated structure, especially considering 3 dimensions and the fact that every affects everything else, ie its not just the moon and earth but the sun and other planets plus other stars and the galaxy affecting each other. Even other galaxies affect each other. So there becomes infinite interactions in at least 4 dimensions.
Fortunately Science and Engineering is all about simplifying concepts for our simple brains to understand.
Here is my own view on some of the subjects touched upon in here:
There is only one actual, physical working force in the universe. It is electricity. Nothing more. No gravity as we call and describe it, no magnetism as we call and describe it; only electricity in its varying forms. Let me explain a bit more.
The force that carries out work in the universe is electrical force. It interacts with another force that seems to be everywhere, yet is beyond the reach of our senses and instruments. Our tests and theories tell us that it must be there, but we cannot pick it up. Some people call this God, others White Light, yet others the Stillness. This force is acted upon by the electrical force. It does no work itself, but can influence the electric force; kind of balances the electric force or can allow the electrical force to work in certain ways. Think of the wings of a glider; they don't actually provide power to the system, they guide the power as the pilot sees fit. This is how the electrical force is interacted with by this other force.
As the interaction happens, things come out of balance. Anything that is unbalanced can be seen by us; balanced things can not. As the two forces unbalance each other, motion is introduced. Motion is an essential and necessary part of our universe. Everything that is present in our world has motion going on; think of the activity and motion that is going on at an atomic level on something that is apparently motionless to our eyes. What causes this unbalance, I have yet to figure out
As the unbalancing progresses, vortices are created. Two of them. One spinning inwards, and the other spinning outwards. The two forces spinning inwards go on to create matter; that is to say, matter is created by an electrical force spinning inwards and interacting with this omnipresent force, causing the formation of matter. Tiny at first, but then grows bigger in stages as more matter is pressed inwards. The by product, if you will, of this process creates a force that pulls things downwards; gravity as we call it. The other vortice, spinning outwards, pulls apart the matter created by the opposite vortice, and eventually 'voids' or re-balances the two vortices. The electrical force, spinning outwards and interacting with this omnipresent force, destructs matter and achieves the balance by stopping all motion. As a by product of this process, a force is created that we call radiation. That is, the matter created by the first process is unwound, or radiated, back out into space to achieve balance.
Both these processes are 100% critical to the existence of the other. this is why, in my mind, Newton and Einstein sold us only half a story; neither one of them placed any great weight - or barely even mentioned - radiation in their theories. This is an inherent weakness to both men's views. Einstein's view of the universe was some kind of massive electromagnetic ocean or space and that matter, energy and streams of gravitation flowed in and out of it. For me, having gravity without mentioning radiation is impossible. They are different parts of the same thing. And both are created by the only actual force that we have in the universe - electricity.
Think of a bar of metal. Now, put an electric current to the bar. The electricity works to cause all of the atoms inside the bar to become polarized. That is to say, the positive atoms in the bar all move together to one end, while the negative atoms stick together and move to the opposite end of the bar. You now have a magnet. Now, when you remove the current, the atoms stay in that position, long enough to be considered permanent by us. We then pick up the magnet, use it to lift something made of metal, and then go on to tell the person watching that the force being utilised is a magnetic force. This is wrong. The only force that did any work was an electrical force. That was the cause of the magnetism. For all intents and purposes, the electrical current is still being applied to the bar, as the atoms act in the same manner as when the current is removed. Careful thinking and reasoning are the guides here to lead to the truth; there is only one force used in our universe.
For those more interested in stuff on YouTube, this is how all these 2 from 1 things come about. I genuinely think that things like old, mythical pictures of the hermaphrodite, yin/yang and a million other things, all these things are kind of disguised references to the belief that the 1 force (electrical) is split into 2 equal parts (vortices that create gravity and radiation) and from that we get all our forces, all our elements etc; everything is connected.
As a disclaimer, I am not forcing my views on anyone, or insist that they believe me. What i have written is the culmination of tons of reading and thinking, as well as time spent away from televisions, computers and general distractions. I have tried to express myself in language that the casual reader will understand and use to create pictures in their minds.
There is only one actual, physical working force in the universe. It is electricity. Nothing more. No gravity as we call and describe it, no magnetism as we call and describe it; only electricity in its varying forms. Let me explain a bit more.
The force that carries out work in the universe is electrical force. It interacts with another force that seems to be everywhere, yet is beyond the reach of our senses and instruments. Our tests and theories tell us that it must be there, but we cannot pick it up. Some people call this God, others White Light, yet others the Stillness. This force is acted upon by the electrical force. It does no work itself, but can influence the electric force; kind of balances the electric force or can allow the electrical force to work in certain ways. Think of the wings of a glider; they don't actually provide power to the system, they guide the power as the pilot sees fit. This is how the electrical force is interacted with by this other force.
As the interaction happens, things come out of balance. Anything that is unbalanced can be seen by us; balanced things can not. As the two forces unbalance each other, motion is introduced. Motion is an essential and necessary part of our universe. Everything that is present in our world has motion going on; think of the activity and motion that is going on at an atomic level on something that is apparently motionless to our eyes. What causes this unbalance, I have yet to figure out
As the unbalancing progresses, vortices are created. Two of them. One spinning inwards, and the other spinning outwards. The two forces spinning inwards go on to create matter; that is to say, matter is created by an electrical force spinning inwards and interacting with this omnipresent force, causing the formation of matter. Tiny at first, but then grows bigger in stages as more matter is pressed inwards. The by product, if you will, of this process creates a force that pulls things downwards; gravity as we call it. The other vortice, spinning outwards, pulls apart the matter created by the opposite vortice, and eventually 'voids' or re-balances the two vortices. The electrical force, spinning outwards and interacting with this omnipresent force, destructs matter and achieves the balance by stopping all motion. As a by product of this process, a force is created that we call radiation. That is, the matter created by the first process is unwound, or radiated, back out into space to achieve balance.
Both these processes are 100% critical to the existence of the other. this is why, in my mind, Newton and Einstein sold us only half a story; neither one of them placed any great weight - or barely even mentioned - radiation in their theories. This is an inherent weakness to both men's views. Einstein's view of the universe was some kind of massive electromagnetic ocean or space and that matter, energy and streams of gravitation flowed in and out of it. For me, having gravity without mentioning radiation is impossible. They are different parts of the same thing. And both are created by the only actual force that we have in the universe - electricity.
Think of a bar of metal. Now, put an electric current to the bar. The electricity works to cause all of the atoms inside the bar to become polarized. That is to say, the positive atoms in the bar all move together to one end, while the negative atoms stick together and move to the opposite end of the bar. You now have a magnet. Now, when you remove the current, the atoms stay in that position, long enough to be considered permanent by us. We then pick up the magnet, use it to lift something made of metal, and then go on to tell the person watching that the force being utilised is a magnetic force. This is wrong. The only force that did any work was an electrical force. That was the cause of the magnetism. For all intents and purposes, the electrical current is still being applied to the bar, as the atoms act in the same manner as when the current is removed. Careful thinking and reasoning are the guides here to lead to the truth; there is only one force used in our universe.
For those more interested in stuff on YouTube, this is how all these 2 from 1 things come about. I genuinely think that things like old, mythical pictures of the hermaphrodite, yin/yang and a million other things, all these things are kind of disguised references to the belief that the 1 force (electrical) is split into 2 equal parts (vortices that create gravity and radiation) and from that we get all our forces, all our elements etc; everything is connected.
As a disclaimer, I am not forcing my views on anyone, or insist that they believe me. What i have written is the culmination of tons of reading and thinking, as well as time spent away from televisions, computers and general distractions. I have tried to express myself in language that the casual reader will understand and use to create pictures in their minds.
Why hasn't gravity been discovered like electricity or magnetism? I am puzzled there are no wave forms or whatever that physically proves its existence. It has even given birth to the dark matter theory with out any recordable proof. Apples falling on your head don't count. That can be explained away by being heavier than the air around them. Where is this force that supposedly attracts every thing.
I am <ahem> if I know exactly and I have a degree in physics.
But I can tell you this since Einstein advanced the theory of general relativity (GR) coming a little while after special relativity (which only applied to 0 mass particles) mass is important more mass means more curvature in space time and means more "dragging" on other mass objects related intrinsically to distance too. Ultimately this has a meaning which is difficult to grasp: the relationship that Newton had proposed was more refined with GR, same relationship same mathsish, but more accurate.
Anyway gravity is a in this game, your mistress and perhaps your call girl when you get lonely. Suffice to say if anyone can explain it in detail do feel free to wax lyrical. It sure beats reading another Elvis stole my hamster type newspaper.
Win a Nobel prize or don't I am not fussed.
http://3.bp.blogspot.com/-S7Z6WVrbS...+intelligent+picture+ever+taken,+1927+(2).jpg
Pulls up a chair*.
Einstein is in the middle, Wolfgang Pauli et al are top right the quantum mechanics camp, the lone female is Marie Curie. Schrödinger is the off looking spectacled guy top right who for some unfathomable reason has been seated near the quantum mechanics camp and does not look happy at all.
Very off topic I know: feel free to move it somewhere more apt.
ETA: Oh and Laplace is seated on the left of Einstein as you look at this with Marie Curie left of him. Picture is the Solvey conference: AKA the great meeting of minds, so as not plagiarise the event or image.
Quantum mechanics won 3-0 after extra time, although there was a late break through in the second half when Niels Bohr tried to claim this was all irrelevant as the event when viewed is destroyed by the obeserver, btw.
What a pic mate! thanks! I have a degree in <ahem>
mathematical cybernetics and these are my heroes!The guys in the picture are from back to front and left to right:
A. Piccard, E. Henriot, P. Ehrenfest, E. Herzen, Th. de Donder, E. Schrödinger, J.E. Verschaffelt, W. Pauli, W. Heisenberg, R.H. Fowler, L. Brillouin;
P. Debye, M. Knudsen, W.L. Bragg, H.A. Kramers, P.A.M. Dirac, A.H. Compton, L. de Broglie, M. Born, N. Bohr;
I. Langmuir, M. Planck, M. Skłodowska-Curie, H.A. Lorentz, A. Einstein, P. Langevin, Ch.-E. Guye, C.T.R. Wilson, O.W. Richardson
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Being heavier is a function of gravity. If you want to go the density route, buoyancy is also a function of gravity.
So there isn't any solid proof just a fake picture and some speculation over some far off object we cannot possible see? That proves nothing. If gravity was all around us where is the recordable proof? No buoyancy doesn't need gravity to work. Gravity is this theory that is chucked in everywhere and then other theories are invented to support it. All over some apple. I want to see a waveform or spectrum else it falls in the realm of fantasy.
Since Newton science has just accepted a fiction because it conveniently reinforces Copernicus' theories. Now I'm not disputing that. I worry though that this fiction has gone on for so long that the scientific fraternity would never admit to an error, to save obvious face and their so called credibility. Gravity if so omnipresent and powerful in our lives can only be proven through a telescope at some unimaginable distance in which the average science aficionado doesn't have access to, nor ever will have. Smells like to me.
Lolwut?
Ian Phillips
Volunteer Moderator
Nope. Thats the apple - its very old and has gone rotten.
Then please enlighten us in the general case (not centrifuges).
If weight is because of gravity how come a feather falls as fast as lead in a vacuum?
Perhaps the density of objects is irrelevant because there is no medium for buoyancy to take place? Therefore the objects fall at the same speed due to zero pressure. A whale cannot live on the surface it needs the denser water to hold it. Measure it in its environment and does it weigh the same on land?
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