How long is the Alpha phase of the Beta phase?

[Hamerstein]

Oh, and Hamerstein, your right. If they wanted to they could have the Beta open for one day only, and still satisfy the ...

"Participate in the first round private beta test, plus all rewards above."

Legal interpretation is hardly the corner stone of common sense and fairness.

Perhaps not (at least not any more), however we're not talking about legal definitions, we're talking about the word "participate", that's not legal jargon, it's plain English. Unfortunately Beta backers have adjudged (incorrectly) that their backer level entitled them to be the first players to experience a game phase, which was never promised to them.

I'm merely observing that they never had an argument in the first place.

It was both fueled and fired up by the newsletter saying folks get something extra "exclusive" as an up-sell incentive.

Whether FD's decision to promote Alpha in this way is wise is a different subject, which could (and probably should) have been disassociated from any perceived entitlement issues and discussed accordingly.

 

[Lestat]

I hope as long as Alpha has issue. Like right now most of UK and USA are able to log on. But they might not be able to play. Like game crashes and such. I am able to play around 11 PM PST anything earlier It is hit or miss. Add Beta to this. Could make it worse.

Sorry Beta users I rather have it fun for EVERYONE including beta user then have issue for everyone and have everyone complain.

 

[CMDR Texas Stu]

Does anyone know of any other game where this has occured?

Where the Beta builds was first released to the Alpha testers before being released to the Beta testers. I cant remember any, but on the other hand, I cant remember any games charging £200 for Alpha.

Damn memory melts away with age.

Not so long ago, due to the significant Beta delays, many Betans were lobbying to get access to the early Alphas. In the end, the Alphans got early access the the Betas

Oh, and Hamerstein, your right. If they wanted to they could have the Beta open for one day only, and still satisfy the ...

"Participate in the first round private beta test, plus all rewards above."

Legal interpretation is hardly the corner stone of common sense and fairness.

Labels aside, sure. Some call them closed beta, some call them stress tests, etc.
Although from my limited perception MOST just had major crashes and downtime, long queues and a lot of excuses (most blamed your own ISP, Internet or computer until the truth came out).

If a bad build comes out during the middle of 1st round (Premium) Beta and all the Alphas are crashing to desktop and staring at spinning placeholders on a new revision/build while the Beta play-testers/backers are able to still play the current/existing build will Beta backers still be upset/angry or perhaps come to see this late adjustment as being a positive decision as they can continue to submit tickets and test or play I wonder? Or some of both perhaps? :S

 

[stephen_usher]

OK, a quick question for the premium beta backers:

Would you prefer to download a very large installation file (I'm guessing gigabyte or multiple gigabytes, the alpha test harness is unrepresentative) to find that you can't play the resulting game due to an unseen glitch caused by load, meaning that a day or so later you have to do the whole thing again, wasting your network usage?

Or would you prefer the alpha backers to download a very large installation file to find that it doesn't work because of a load issue, wasting their broadband data allocation, allowing FD to fix the bug so that a few days later you only have to download it once and start playing?

The initial load test by the alpha backers could save you time and money.

 

[Blix]

I would upgrade to alpha from my Beta 2 , but $136(USD) for the alpha upgrade to me is not a good deal.

So will be doing SC DFM while I wait for ED beta2 to start.

 

[Mazhurg]

I would upgrade to alpha from my Beta 2 , but $136(USD) for the alpha upgrade to me is not a good deal.

So will be doing SC DFM while I wait for ED beta2 to start.

I hope you will be able to (and so do I), but so far their track record is also somewhat to the right.

 

[Patrick_68000]

Since the players of alpha will have access to the premium beta before other backers of beta, then the D-day, Frontier could give to other backers of the premium beta, the version V1.0 of alpha, for example ?

 

[Yaffle]

OK, a quick question for the premium beta backers:

Would you prefer to download a very large installation file (I'm guessing gigabyte or multiple gigabytes, the alpha test harness is unrepresentative) to find that you can't play the resulting game due to an unseen glitch caused by load, meaning that a day or so later you have to do the whole thing again, wasting your network usage?

Or would you prefer the alpha backers to download a very large installation file to find that it doesn't work because of a load issue, wasting their broadband data allocation, allowing FD to fix the bug so that a few days later you only have to download it once and start playing?

The initial load test by the alpha backers could save you time and money.

How about - alpha backers! Have you had enough of massive downloads to see a spinning orange cobra? Let us beta people take the strain for a while! Save you time and money!

In short - the choice would be nice.

I understand the reasoning behind the decision, but it would also work from a "let's pick a pseudo random number of beta testers" point of view, remember once beta starts in theory alpha and beta folks would be beta testers. Please, stop the condescending approach to this. Alpha backers are not martyrs.

 

[Memnoch]

So this entire furore concerning who gets what and when has been fuelled by not reading a pledge tier properly.

I think they read it just fine but there does seem to be a tendency to put their own personal interpretation on things. Heightened personal expectations or entitlements? Call it what you will it seems to be common thing.

 

[Rog]

OK, a quick question for the premium beta backers:

Would you prefer to download a very large installation file (I'm guessing gigabyte or multiple gigabytes, the alpha test harness is unrepresentative) to find that you can't play the resulting game due to an unseen glitch caused by load, meaning that a day or so later you have to do the whole thing again, wasting your network usage?

Or would you prefer the alpha backers to download a very large installation file to find that it doesn't work because of a load issue, wasting their broadband data allocation, allowing FD to fix the bug so that a few days later you only have to download it once and start playing?

The initial load test by the alpha backers could save you time and money.

Well I was going to refrain from posting any more about this, but since you specifically ask...

1. I couldn't care less about the size of the download. It's not 1998 anymore.
2. It's very kind to offer to do the pre-screening/testing before the betas, although I fail to see the extra qualifications. Unforeseen glitches kinda come with the territory of beta TESTING.
3. I would have preferred day 1 access to the beta build that people pledged and paid for. The access that was quite clearly implied we were pledging for up until a couple of days ago. Despite after-the-event, politician-scale word mangling, and logic twisting attempts at justification from some who should know better.

Now it's late on Friday, I've had some unpleasant news, so I'm off for a pint.

 

[Jezzah]

Please, stop the condescending approach to this. Alpha backers are not martyrs.

Really?

There are a fair number of Alpha backers that havent been able to play the alpha due to various issues beyond their control and without pointing the finger at you Yaffle (i merely chose your quote) I havent seen them whinge anything like the pointless amounts that are in a few of the threads round here in general these last few days.

Alpha was mixed for me personally and no we arent martyrs and i dont think anyone is saying as far as that. Ive spent at least as much time writing tickets, uploading screenshots etc as i have playing the alpha, im not a martyr, I KNEW what i was signing up for and that it could be a load of bum-fluff for me.

I paid the money and upgraded from prem beta several months ago.. i took the chance and it worked pretty well overall...there are many alphas that werent that lucky.

Edit: Heres a sample of tonights alpha experiences now jump forward to beta time lots of folk etc etc and we'll watch tempers really fray round here.

Spoiler

Look at the FPS in the top left corner

Spoiler

And i spent a while looking at screens like this too

 

[Lestat]

The problem with Beta testers is all about ME ME ME you payed a low amount and expect to have Beta the next week or a month after Alpha released. If you want to play in the Alpha then Pay the 200.

Alpha testers PAYED 200 to deal with major issues like game crashes and Network issue, Multiple Battle cruiser. (I think the most I seen was 4 but I seen pictures of 5 ships.) Stations Vanishing and lag and some of us like me Could not log on for a few week due to new releases and bugs and a few still can not play. It not about the game play it about looking for issues.

Beta is looking for Minor issues.

Harsh I know but Reality Bites.

 

[Yaffle]

I know you are not picking on me, that's cool.

The difference is that signing for an alpha (or a beta) you should know it's going to be a bugfest, so every alpha backer was prewarned.

Until 1 April every beta backer was not prewarned that they would not have first access to the beta. Be that by a minute or 30 years it matters not. That is the difference. Beta backers were prewarned it could be a bugfest.

When alpha 2.0 was more than a couple of days after expectations alpha backers moaned. When Snuffler tested specific bugs alpha backers moaned, heck he ended up on Lave radio to explain himself. Alphas are now moaning about Yan. When Dara had a look at 3.0 a few days before the alpha folks, alphas moaned.

Then, seemingly out of nowhere (if there is a post that says otherwise prior to 1 April I would love to see it) the beta folks are told that contra to generally held belief they are not going to get a beta, but a sort of gamma. Michael has explained why. I accept that, but the messaging could have been better. The newsletter was ill-written and has caused this whole schism.

To be told "it's for your own good" and "we knew this would happen, why didn't you" by alpha backers who now seem to believe they are the best testers ever to have walked the earth isn't exactly tactful. Some support would be nice, much as the beta people have, on the whole, supported the alpha people and not posted remarks about how funny it is an alpha person downloaded a massive file and sat stuck for a weekend. Nor did the beta backers, on the whole, snipe about the later than expected alpha 2.0.

This is but a game, but being condescending doesn't help heal the rapidly opening divide between the alpha and beta backers.

 

[baddog]

OK, a quick question for the premium beta backers:

Would you prefer to download a very large installation file (I'm guessing gigabyte or multiple gigabytes, the alpha test harness is unrepresentative) to find that you can't play the resulting game due to an unseen glitch caused by load, meaning that a day or so later you have to do the whole thing again, wasting your network usage?

Yes.

(That's why I spent £100.)

 

[Yaffle]

The problem with Beta testers is all about ME ME ME you payed a low amount and expect to have Beta the next week or a month after Alpha released. If you want to play in the Alpha then Pay the 200.

For those who paid it £150 isn't small, but the £50 looks pretty darn big now.

If alpha is about "you you you" why will no alpha person offer a swapsie to a beta?

 

[Gibbonici]

Really?

There are a fair number of Alpha backers that havent been able to play the alpha due to various issues beyond their control and without pointing the finger at you Yaffle (i merely chose your quote) I havent seen them whinge anything like the pointless amounts that are in a few of the threads round here in general these last few days.

Have you seen much whinging from betas over the past 3 months or so about the beta delay? There hasn't been much and beta backers have been as instrumental in keeping it to a minimum as anyone else, and a whole lot more than FD themselves.

We've all had our disappointments with this, it's par for the course, but what set this off is finding out the terms of our beta pledges via a sales pitch for alpha sales, with the extra, repeated delays sold as "exclusive" access and a "fantastic" reason to buy alpha.

Sure, those repeated delays may be as little as a few hours, but for all we knew we were looking at a full alpha each time. And the bonus thank-you perk for the alphas' patience didn't help, given how patient we've been all along with the delays and total lack of communication.

All the acrimony and venting comes from that. It goes to show how poorly handled communication and community management can wreck a previously decent community. Given FD's record on communication, this ****storm was always going to happen eventually, especially given how much this game means to many of us and the sums we've pitched in to be a part of it.

It's quite clear from Michael Brookes' posts earlier that FD recognise that they need to do something to sort things out. They're giving out more news next week for betas, over a week ahead of previously planned, and they've already started to clarify the mess that started this thing. This is all good, it's pretty much all we needed in the first place.

The next question is what are we going to do about it? Are we really going to keep on calling each other "whingers" and "entitled" or "privileged" and whatever else or are we going to rebuild our fences and move on?

 

[Lestat]

For those who paid it £150 isn't small, but the £50 looks pretty darn big now.

If alpha is about "you you you" why will no alpha person offer a swapsie to a beta?

That dose not look like a large. But I invested £300+ for the game and I am not a rich person. I payed it to help Frontier make a great game. Not to make another X rebirth release Flop.

 

[Yaffle]

The next question is what are we going to do about it? Are we really going to keep on calling each other "whingers" and "entitled" or "privileged" and whatever else or are we going to rebuild our fences and move on?

Yes. This, very much this.

 

[Gibbonici]

The problem with Beta testers is all about ME ME ME you payed a low amount and expect to have Beta the next week or a month after Alpha released. If you want to play in the Alpha then Pay the 200.

 

[Amorelia]

The problem with Beta testers is all about ME ME ME you payed a low amount

3x the price of an average game at full-retail is hardly a low amount.

and expect to have Beta the next week or a month after Alpha released.

I have seen scant evidence of this.

Impressively, Alphas got their pledge reward on schedule.

Premium Betas are still waiting for theirs over 3 months later, Standard Betas are over 2 months later. Only this week was the first official hint of a revised schedule, and then only to announce it would be unavailable to its backers due to some exclusivity. Few seriously expected Beta to be on-time. More did expect some sort of update to the anticipatory schedules as they sailed past.

If Alpha was still not released today and FD just announced they would exclusively release pre-Alpha to the backers who pledged at 500 quid, a lot of Alpha backers would be seriously ed off. Please don't pretend they wouldn't, and please don't pretend they would be in the wrong for expressing their views.

Beta is looking for Minor issues.

You don't work in software development, do you?