How much cred/h should we make?

Caiburn

C
EDIT after post #28: Folks, I'm just asking for your opinions. This is not "FDEV change this or you suck" or "I am better than you" or whatever. I'm just interested in other people's thoughts about something.


Since the start of the game there's been a ton of threads about "x pays better than y", "activity x does not pay enough" etc.

The question is: How much cash would we actually be supposed to make per activity and time invested?

A lot of game design hinges on this balance. If players make too much money too fast, they progress too fast through the "levels" (ships) and get bored quickly. If too little money, the only feasible progress comes through grind and exploits.

It may boil down to "how many hours of activity x do you have to do successfully until you can afford a basic Anaconda/Cutter/Corvette" or "how much time should the player have to spend to get from Sidewinder to Cobra". It could also become a function of "one hour of play per rebuy gained".

What are your thoughts about this? Please note your favourite activity and what you think it should pay per hour if done correctly (not perfect theoretical value, but a realistic goal for a player with medium level skills). Don't post the outliers, we all know about that CG and the longrange biowaste hauling. Keep it real.
 
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Sashenka

S
I think that if you see the game in a cred/h kind of way you'll be disappointed and bored pretty fast. Not to defend the lack of balance between activities but maybe they shouldn't be all equal and doing an activity that pays less but you enjoy more would end up being more gratifying.

But yeah, as you point out, some balance must be maintained so it doesn't go too fast... or too slow. I wouldn't see the ships as levels though, I've been happily flying an Imperial Eagle for a while now and don't want to change it just yet.
 

Caiburn

C
Sashenka said:
I think that if you see the game in a cred/h kind of way you'll be disappointed and bored pretty fast. Not to defend the lack of balance between activities but maybe they shouldn't be all equal and doing an activity that pays less but you enjoy more would end up being more gratifying.

But yeah, as you point out, some balance must be maintained so it doesn't go too fast... or too slow. I wouldn't see the ships as levels though, I've been happily flying an Imperial Eagle for a while now and don't want to change it just yet.
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I don't see the game that way myself, but from the sheer amount of threads popping up about this it appears to be something that we should look at as a community imo.
 
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Kingston@#

Kingston@#
that's a very subjective ?. it depends on what you are doing to earn cr. I can easily earn 5 million and hr in a CZ, I don't think any other way can match that.
it all depends on rank. what ship u have . etc...
 

willowfan

willowfan
Getting to the biggest ships in the least possible time is not the be all and end all. Big ship =/= endgame. There is no endgame.

Find something you like doing, a ship you enjoy doing it in and do it at a pace you find enjoyable. You will have fun and the credits will flow. If something starts to not be fun, do something else for a while.

My favourite activity - whatever I fancy doing at the time. What I think it should pay - whatever it pays, sometimes that may mean earning nothing at all. Progress/other ships will came when/if they come, I'm in no rush.
 

Sashenka

S
Caiburn said:
I don't see it that way, but from the sheer amount of threads popping up about this it appears to be something that we should look at as a community imo.
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Oh I agree with you, I just think that reducing all activities to a simple credits/hour ratio might not give us the complete picture. The enjoyment of the person doing the activity has to factor into it too. An example is exploring, maybe the less rewarding in credits activity so far but a lot of people exile themselves into the unknown anyway.
 

-VR- Max Factor

-VR- Max Factor
Kingston@# said:
that's a very subjective ?. it depends on what you are doing to earn cr. I can easily earn 5 million and hr in a CZ, I don't think any other way can match that.
it all depends on rank. what ship u have . etc...
Click to expand...

I play for fun. I have been playing since Gamma/Beta and my biggest ship was a clipper (now sold), and is now a Cobra Mk4. No rush really as all the ships are great to fly in their own way and there is no real end game.

If you want to go for credits per hour, go for it, but to me seems like the most boring way to play the game.
 

Lunchmoney

Lunchmoney
jobs/careers/activities in game should not be balanced and give the same cred/hour payout. Just like real life.

As for how much one should make? Make however much you want. I don't care how much you make and you shouldn't care how much I make.
 

Modgier

M
Lunchmoney said:
jobs/careers/activities in game should not be balanced and give the same cred/hour payout. Just like real life.

As for how much one should make? Make however much you want. I don't care how much you make and you shouldn't care how much I make.
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It's a game not life.

It should balance risk and reward and effort to reward ratios.

It currently does not. Some of the most laborious and risky activities pay the least while the safest pay the most.
 

Caiburn

C
Lowievisser said:
Sounds like work to play like that.
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Yep, but how does that answer my question?

Kingston@# said:
that's a very subjective ?. it depends on what you are doing to earn cr. I can easily earn 5 million and hr in a CZ, I don't think any other way can match that.
it all depends on rank. what ship u have . etc...
Click to expand...
5mcr/h fighting in Combat Zone with an optimized ship, does it boil down to that for you then?

willowfan said:
Getting to the biggest ships in the least possible time is not the be all and end all. Big ship =/= endgame. There is no endgame.

Find something you like doing, a ship you enjoy doing it in and do it at a pace you find enjoyable. You will have fun and the credits will flow. If something starts to not be fun, do something else for a while.

My favourite activity - whatever I fancy doing at the time. What I think it should pay - whatever it pays, sometimes that may mean earning nothing at all. Progress/other ships will came when/if they come, I'm in no rush.
Click to expand...

Sashenka said:
Oh I agree with you, I just think that reducing all activities to a simple credits/hour ratio might not give us the complete picture. The enjoyment of the person doing the activity has to factor into it too. An example is exploring, maybe the less rewarding in credits activity so far but a lot of people exile themselves into the unknown anyway.
Click to expand...

That is exactly right and fine, and I see it that way myself, but it does not answer my question at all :) I'm really just interested to what you guys out there feel would be "the sweet spot".
 

AutoMechancal

A
If you're in the right place at the right time you can make between 30 to 60 million per hour running missions. However most roles payout about 5 to 10 million per hour.
 

Siranui

S
Caiburn said:
I don't see it that way, but from the sheer amount of threads popping up about this it appears to be something that we should look at as a community imo.
Click to expand...

There are two groups of players: Those who care, and those who don't.

Those who don't will do the thing that they enjoy doing, and to heck with the cr/h

Those who do will either gravitate towards the thing that pays the most (if they prioritise cash as a measure of success or fun), or complain if the thing they want to do is not paying as well as something else but they don't want to change what they do.

The last group are torn between their preference for fun and their desire for money. They will complain so long as either their chosen career isn't 'balanced' with the best paying one (normally ignoring other factors, such as risk, skill level, level of interaction et cetera), or for so long as they *perceive* it as such.

Given that perfect 'balance' is not really possible and that complaints tend to often ignore other factors that should be taken into account, some people are always going to complain about this 'balance'.

tl;dr: People like to complain. Even if it were perfect, people would complain.
 

Modgier

M
Siranui said:
Given that perfect 'balance' is not really possible and that complaints tend to often ignore other factors that should be taken into account, some people are always going to complain about this 'balance'.
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Perfect balance? Probably not no - but we can agree that there are major under performers:

Nobody does exploration to get rich.
Mining is also an awful way to make money currently.
Some missions pay extremely poorly for the effort required compared to simple hauling missions.
 

goemon

goemon
i think, there are actually at least two/three different values in terms of "balance":

a) how much does the average player make in cr/h, e.g. how much does an average cr-based progression (for ranks, ships etc.) take?

b) how much cr/h can you potentially make if you min/max cr/h, e.g. "fast tracking" of "progression".

c) how is "balance" between different "roles" - trade, combat, exploration - bounty hunting, mining, powerplay - etc.
 
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