How to do bank loans in Elite Dangerous

Dear Frontier (@Stephen Benedetti), this message is for you. Please consider the following as a springboard for discussion of the possible inclusion of bank loans in Elite Dangerous.

The Problem - many people don't want to "grind" to get a certain ship (or fleet carrier), especially more casual players who don't have a lot of time to play the game on a daily basis. In the past, either the cost of a ship has been lowered or the ability to earn a ridiculous amount of credits in a short period of time (void opals) has been introduced, both of which makes credits relatively meaningless. This introduces a new problem - players can get the ship they want in weeks or even days, but since earning credits is the primary game-loop, these players then say, "Now what?", quickly grow bored, and quit the game. It also upsets more dedicated players like myself who want a more realistic, internally-consistent game where credits actually mean something.

The Solution - introduce the Pilot Federation Bank with a Loan Officer located in larger stations. For the sake of gameplay, keep this new system very simple. To obtain a loan, one needs a down-payment, say 10% of the loan. So for a 5 billion credit loan, I would need a down-payment of 500 million credits. This prevents players from going straight from starter Sidewinder to Fleet Carrier in a day. Payments would then be automatically deducted from all credit earnings, just like NPC crew, except that payments should be a huge percentage (say 80%) of a player's income until the loan is paid off. This makes getting a loan "cost something" to the player without making it overly complicated. As for interest, that should just be a fixed percentage on the top of the loan, perhaps based on the pilot's trade rank (it is a PF loan, after all). So for example, a Penniless trader might be faced with a 20% interest loan (so a 5 billion credit loan costs 6 billion to pay off), whereas an Elite trader gets an interest-free loan. And to keep things simple, only one loan can be active at any given time.

The Result - this solution kills two birds with one stone while making the game more immersive and realistic, making everyone* happy. It allows players to more quickly obtain the ships they want, and then it gives those players purpose for owning that ship - paying off the loan by earning credits using the ship of their dreams. This also applies to things like the upcoming fleet carrier. It's the best of both worlds, because it keeps credits relevant while allowing players to experience more of the game without grinding hundreds of hours to get there. It makes "realism" nuts like myself happy, because banks and loans are a core part of any society. It even adds an element of gameplay for the economy players, since it changes how one might approach buying ships in order to earn credits for their dream fleet. And finally, it should be relatively easy to add to the game from a developer's perspective, assuming you keep it simple (no need to mimic and actual IRL mortgage).

* I realize it is impossible to make everyone happy, as I'm sure this thread will prove in quick order, but I do think this suggestion has great potential and merit and is worthy of discussion at Frontier.
 
I like the idea, but I'd prefer a loan shark approach where if you don't keep up your repayments, you begin payment in bodyparts escalating to being chased by debt collectors. Maybe both together? The bigger question is does it kill off any progression in the game, since it upends how you get somewhere.
 
This introduces a new problem - players can get the ship they want in weeks or even days, but since earning credits is the primary game-loop, these players then say, "Now what?"

Or they complain on forums that collecting engineering mats is too hard.
 
Or they complain on forums that collecting engineering mats is too hard.
Ironically materials were at least partially introduced as a form of currency, because credits became meaningless sometime early in the game's development. Loans can give credits meaning again, assuming no more "Void Oprah" free credit mechanics are introduced to the game.
 
Intersting. When I started playing I thought it would be a good idea if a player started with no credits. No free sidewinder, gotta pay off a loan. And insurance should be proper insurance that you pay up-front in installments, not a buy-back price. It just made more logical sense to me. Probably too complicated for a brand new player that has too much other stuff to learn.
 
I like this idea. I could see a new player grinding out enough money to make a payment on an asp X then go exploring for a week and come back after selling all the exploration data theyve got it all paid off.
 
I like the idea, but I'd prefer a loan shark approach where if you don't keep up your repayments, you begin payment in bodyparts escalating to being chased by debt collectors. Maybe both together? The bigger question is does it kill off any progression in the game, since it upends how you get somewhere.
I've thought of different ideas like putting your fleet up for collateral, a "repo man" who takes your ship if you fall behind on payments, etc. However, all of this adds complexity, and the more complicated something is, the less likely it is to be implemented or the more likely it is to screw things up in certain edge-cases. That's why I went with the KISS approach.

Larger loans could also be tied to reputation with certain factions. No rep, no loan.

Making rep more important.
Thought of this too, but see above. It's easier to have one galactic bank (PFB) that tracks PF rank rather than per-faction regional reputations.
 
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I like the idea. But I fear it can and will be exploited somehow.

I'd also like to open up certain values to certain ranks only, so you can't loan 5 billion as harmless/pennyless/useless :LOL:
 
I'd also like to open up certain values to certain ranks only, so you can't loan 5 billion as harmless/pennyless/useless :LOL:
Show me a penniless trader with 500 million in credits for a down-payment and I'll give you my stash of reserve TP :p

ps - I'm thinking that interest be tied specifically to trading rank, not combat or exploration rank.
 
I've thought of different ideas like putting your fleet up for collateral, a "repo man" who takes your ship if you fall behind on payments, etc. However, all of this adds complexity, and the more complicated something is, the less likely it is to be implemented or the more likely it is to screw things up in certain edge-cases. That's why I went with the KISS approach.

This is true- but for me the SLF pilot % route does not really add anything to the game, at least for me. Its more along the lines of 'I want it all, now' and does not have consequences harsh enough for such a giant wad of money to begin with. The other might be that the loan shark asks you to do dodgy missions now and again on retainer, that if you screw up Han Solo style you wind up with Boba Fett after you- so its adding risk and random situations that make it something worth doing. The bigger the loan, the more difficult or morally reprehensible the acts you have to do to keep them sweet.
 
To obtain a loan, one needs a down-payment, say 10% of the loan. So for a 5 billion credit loan, I would need a down-payment of 500 million credits.

When a player gets a loan do they end up with additional credits? Or does the loan have to go directly towards an asset?

If a loan provided credits I could see a lot of cmdrs playing the game with the biggest debt load they can possibly handle. Or just spiraling into unrecoverable debt. Basically modelling credit card debt.

Edit: Especially if interest is applied. Player takes out 4 billion loan, stops playing for 6 months, returns in an unplayable state because of unmanageable debt.
 
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Show me a penniless trader with 500 million in credits for a down-payment and I'll give you my stash of reserve TP :p

ps - I'm thinking that interest be tied specifically to trading rank, not combat or exploration rank.
Yeah, I guess I didn't thought that to the end 😝
 
This is true- but for me the SLF pilot % route does not really add anything to the game, at least for me. Its more along the lines of 'I want it all, now' and does not have consequences harsh enough for such a giant wad of money to begin with. The other might be that the loan shark asks you to do dodgy missions now and again on retainer, that if you screw up Han Solo style you wind up with Boba Fett after you- so its adding risk and random situations that make it something worth doing. The bigger the loan, the more difficult or morally reprehensible the acts you have to do to keep them sweet.
For me the consequence is that once you get that loan, you're stuck earning very little in way of "pocket cash" until that loan is paid off (thus my suggestion of 80% or even more of earnings go to paying off loan). So if I get a loan to buy an Anaconda, I'm going to have to pay it off before I can afford to upgrade modules or buy another ship, and if I'm a dummy and lose that Conda without a rebuy, then I'm stuck paying it off with my smaller ship. The plus side of this proposal is that I'm using an Anaconda to pay off my Anaconda rather than using a Type-6 to earn the credits to buy a Conda outright*, and if the Conda is my "dream ship", then ideally the process is less grind and more fun.

That's not to say that your proposal couldn't coexist with my proposal (perhaps as a way to get a loan with no down-payment), but I'll let you start your own thread detailing how such a thing would work, including all the nuances thereof. Me personally, I never deal with loan sharks, IRL or IG.

* Of course this option would remain in the game as well.
 
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