How to improve the Asp S

[Snarfbuckle]

A ship I really LIKE but is so limited compared to other ships and I cannot really find HOW they are where they are in the game.

Asp S: A far slower but somewhat more agile than the Cobra MkIII

Love the design but I cannot really see what makes this a scout or what it's role should really be if it IS supposed to be a scout version of the Asp X it fails horribly.

- Slower than the Asp X
- Less jump range
- Less guns
- Less internals
- Smaller internals
+ More AGILE

How should this ship be remade into what it's name should imply? Unlike the Cobra MkIV that is given BETTER internals and MORE weapon slots at the cost of speed the Asp S is give maneuverability at the cost of well...everything compared to the Asp X.

- More speed at around 270 would put it between the Cobra mkIII and the Asp X while still having fewer optional internals than the Cobra mkIII.

Or, more controversial

- Even better jump range than the Asp X.

 

[Morbad]

Knock a small amount off the hull mass and give it a single military slot of modest size.

I'm hesitant to go further than that.

 

[Snarfbuckle]

Knock a small amount off the hull mass and give it a single military slot of modest size.

I'm hesitant to go further than that.

The question is then if it is indeed a MILITARY vessel - it can be a scout explorer similar to the Diamondback scout.

And even IF we lower hull mass by a little it would still be horribly slow. And adding any kind of hull armour to it will make it even slower.

 

[jabberwalkie]

If you're going to compare the scout version to the explorer version, start by looking at how the DBS and DBX differ. I think that may answer some of the why questions.

As I mentioned that in another thread, scouts should be looked at as little light combat craft that have better range than their more combat focused brethren.

 

[KiNETiCA]

A ship I really LIKE but is so limited compared to other ships and I cannot really find HOW they are where they are in the game.

Asp S: A far slower but somewhat more agile than the Cobra MkIII

Love the design but I cannot really see what makes this a scout or what it's role should really be if it IS supposed to be a scout version of the Asp X it fails horribly.

- Slower than the Asp X
- Less jump range
- Less guns
- Less internals
- Smaller internals
+ More AGILE

How should this ship be remade into what it's name should imply? Unlike the Cobra MkIV that is given BETTER internals and MORE weapon slots at the cost of speed the Asp S is give maneuverability at the cost of well...everything compared to the Asp X.

- More speed at around 270 would put it between the Cobra mkIII and the Asp X while still having fewer optional internals than the Cobra mkIII.

Or, more controversial

- Even better jump range than the Asp X.

Just "engineer the hell out of it"
400 boost
300 cruise
36.83 ly/jump
Even more nimble than stock, that's all on grade 3 rolls and grade 4 fsd.
That's with 2 rails 2 pulse 4a scoop, ads/dss and 8 ton cargo rack or a srv...
Works ok as a daily driver, made it to Colonia just fine, even had fun in hazres there.

 

[Snarfbuckle]

Just "engineer the hell out of it"
400 boost
300 cruise
36.83 ly/jump
Even more nimble than stock, that's all on grade 3 rolls and grade 4 fsd.
That's with 2 rails 2 pulse 4a scoop, ads/dss and 8 ton cargo rack or a srv...
Works ok as a daily driver, made it to Colonia just fine, even had fun in hazres there.

And if I do the same with the Asp X it's still a lot crappier ship in comparison.

 

[Frenotx]

One of the biggest issues I have with the AspS is the fact it has small ship durability, but the hit box of a larger medium. Seriously, that thing is huge. I have to wonder what all that space is being used for, since it sure as hell isn't internals. Same volume as the AspX, but way less internal space... Eh?

 

[Snarfbuckle]

If you're going to compare the scout version to the explorer version, start by looking at how the DBS and DBX differ. I think that may answer some of the why questions.

As I mentioned that in another thread, scouts should be looked at as little light combat craft that have better range than their more combat focused brethren.

Not really

The DBS is actually a lot faster and maneuverable than the DBX.

So unlike the AspS vs the AspX it's not a direct downgrade but an actual option where the ships have different tactical advantages.

Even comparing the AspS vs the DBS the DBS is the clear winner where the AspS gains larger optional modules but loose X2 utility mounts AND is a lot slower.

 

[il-Vec]

I fly one. Use it as a jack of all, in-bubble explorer/surface attack ship. Love it much.
I get the ethos of the AspS, as a stripped down version of the AspE for long range light combat. And its reasonably good at that, but it feels a bit gimped, so much so that a Mk3 Cobra will feel like an upgrade in several respects.

There was a discussion on this in the "Ships of Elite" subforum. My contribution there was to give it some of the internals and utilities back, but not enough that it steps on the AspE's toes.

 

[LameoveR]

Buy ASPX.

 

[Snarfbuckle]

I fly one. Use it as a jack of all, in-bubble explorer/surface attack ship. Love it much.
I get the ethos of the AspS, as a stripped down version of the AspE for long range light combat. And its reasonably good at that, but it feels a bit gimped, so much so that a Mk3 Cobra will feel like an upgrade in several respects.

There was a discussion on this in the "Ships of Elite" subforum. My contribution there was to give it some of the internals and utilities back, but not enough that it steps on the AspE's toes.

Exactly, it is so gimped that it's a SLIGHTLY more maneuverable Cobra but FAR slower.

And here's more fun.

- 60 slower than Cobra mkIII (100 slower in boost)
- 30 less hull tonnage that Cobra mkIII
- SLIGHTLY more maneuverable
- MEDIUM sized (and still 30 ton less)
- Smaller optional compartments than the Cobra mkIII
- More armour than Cobra mkIII
- Larger PD and Sensor than Cobra MKIII

I mean, I get a smaller, faster, AND better optional internals with the mkIII with slightly less armour.

So WHY would I choose the Asp S over the Cobra mkIII???

 

[Windscreen Smudge]

Simple answer OP.

Scout in FDev vernacular means cheapie budget version.

The DBS just got lucky because the DBX is so bad that it can't help but be admired in comparison.

 

[Poseidal]

It's a scout, so I think it should be faster, and as a military ship, stronger shields.

Another problem is it has a massive size and is easy to hit, but is not so good at defense.

In terms of easy to hit, it's not actually much smaller than a Python (shorter, but almost as wide) and is nowhere near as tough, and isn't much faster.

 

[avow555]

Needs to be faster, tougher and 4 medium guns.

 

[Ian Skippy]

Its very agile, great hardpoint placement, is the only ship with these hardpoints to rock a c4 PD, runs very cold and has a more than decent range. Its fine.

 

[jabberwalkie]

Not really

The DBS is actually a lot faster and maneuverable than the DBX.

So unlike the AspS vs the AspX it's not a direct downgrade but an actual option where the ships have different tactical advantages.

Even comparing the AspS vs the DBS the DBS is the clear winner where the AspS gains larger optional modules but loose X2 utility mounts AND is a lot slower.

The Asp Scout is more viable for combat than the AspX. Much the same way that a DBS is more viable for combat than the DBX. Speed is only a portion of the equation, and maneuverability is another. What the Asp Scout lacks in speed to the Explorer, it makes up in maneuverability. The Asp Scout also has more armor and shields than the DBS. The Asp Scout can also equip an AFMU thanks to having more internal slots while still running both scanners, shields, and a fuel scoop. The Asp Scout also has a larger power distributor than than the DBS. So it's more complex than you're making it out to be and the Asp Scout is still viable for light combat work like how the DBS is.

My comment was that you should look at the DBS and DBX to see how and why the Asp Scout is the way it is. The main reason the DBS is better than the DBX is because it is SO much more maneuverable and for a "combat explorer" the DBX just doesn't work that well, where as the Asp Scout and Explorer are closer in that regard. I'm not saying that the Asp Scout couldn't use a slight bump in top end speed, but when you look at variants it's pretty much in line with the design philosophy that FDEV has apparently chosen to implement at the moment. Though, considering the number of ships with 2 small and 2 medium hardpoints in the game I'd think that the Asp Scout should have had four medium hard points instead (something more than a few of us have said iirc).

There was a thread in the ships subforum some time ago now where a few of us, myself included, noted that with all the ships now implemented that there probably should be some balancing done between the ships in reality.

 

[Siranui]

And if I do the same with the Asp X it's still a lot crappier ship in comparison.

A lot cheaper, too.

 

[KiNETiCA]

And if I do the same with the Asp X it's still a lot crappier ship in comparison.

Asp Explorer won't match it in agility, it's a compromise, either you want a niche ship nobody flies or not

 

[il-Vec]

There was a thread in the ships subforum some time ago now where a few of us, myself included, noted that with all the ships now implemented that there probably should be some balancing done between the ships in reality.

That makes sense. That said there'll be salt aplenty when Fdev decide to balance ships by removing internal slots or simply downgrading them.
"You s*** on ma build. Literally unplayable, this game." and the sort.

 

[goemon]

One of the biggest issues I have with the AspS is the fact it has small ship durability, but the hit box of a larger medium.

that's my main problem with it, too. it is fine pve 1-v-1 because its manouverability allows you do always show its slim side, though.

my answer would be: give it similar shieldstrenght to a courier, something like +75%.

with that it could make an interesting, highly shielded, manouverable, but slow ship with a good powerdistributor.... a mini-corvette with jumprange, so to say.