Ships How to increase the surviving chances of my Type-9 Miner/Trader?

[schlowi123]

Hello

My Chicken of Doom (EDSY) is a Type-9 mining/trading ship and I'm rather happy with the general setup. However, I'm not happy with it's chance to survive a serious pirate attack.

My strategy so far is to subit to the interdiction, set 4 pips to shields, boost away and enter supercruise asap. The problem is now if a pirate has such a device that I can't enter supercruise.
If I would know that said pirate has such a device beforehand I would pick another system already while submitting, turn into its direction and jump away. That would not solve the problem though, since I have to to return to the system I actual want to go to and the same pirate (or enemy that doesn't want me to deliver animal meat … some kind of radical vegans I think ) will be there, waiting for me. Thus the same game has to be "played" again.
But that doesn't matter, since I don't know beforehand, so I'm usually surprised by pirates having such devices.

But here is maybe already one possible way for intervention (if you, my fellow commanders, know more than I do). Is it a workable compromise if I just give in to the demands of said pirates? I've never really tried that. But that has some points to consider.

• Assuming I have > 500 tons of painite. How much will the pirate ask for? I would be willing to part with a maximum of 10% (in total).
• What if several pirates have smelled my "tasty cargo" Do i need to give all of them 10%. That would not be nice . Will that actually happen or is it always just one pirate that "magically knows" aboout me when I come back from the ice rings, with a storage full of Bromellite?
• Assuming I have a missions and the above mentioned radical doesn't want me to fulfill it. What will they do? Will they demand all the cargo? Can't do that? Will they shoot me in any case?

But the main point of this thread is to make my ship survive pirate attacks.
I've looked for advice here in the forums and elsewhere and what I took away was to use the Bi Weave Shield Generator. That came in very handy especially in the case of several pirates chasing me.

• I've tried the "use mines it works wonders"-build and it totally failed. Was that nerfed?
• I have chaff and electronic countermeasured, but they seem not to work. Lasers hit me, as do rockets. Should I install point defences? Will they actuall work? Will that give me enough time to charge my FSD to enter supercruise?
• I don't want ship launched figthers, because I am a really really really bad fighter and that would also take away valuable space. That also means that fighting with Chicken of Doom is not an option. Yes, there is a reason why it is called "Chicken" (because it's yellow).

Is there anything else I can do?

Thank you in advance for taking your time and replying

 

[GroG79]

You have two ecms? Interesting tactics... I assume you are talking NPC attacks.

Get a shield booster (heavy duty or augmented) perhaps even two. The ecm has limited uses. You can consider using a Point defence near your hatch to stop hostile hatch breaker limpets. You also do not need the pulse wave analyser. This frees up another slot. If you use too much power for your liking; consider shutting down one or two boosters when mining. Most of these changes should allow you to not loose your shield before high waking. If you keep loosing your shield when under attack then purchase a armour for you T-9.

You can consider switching to 7A shield but this will have recharge and power consequences

Do upgrade the prospector controller to A-class. Then you will get more fragments per rock. Also if you have access do some engineering. Most important will be the Power distributor. A better PD will allow you to fire for longer.

Personally I would dump the docking computer; get a 2A refinery and move the scanner to the class 1 slot. This will yield a free class 4 module. You can confider fitting an SCB in there.

 

[Ascendingbike42]

You can tell the mass lock factor by the ship. The mlf is what slows down your supercruise jump the type 9 has a strangely low mlf so can be locked by a python and anything larger like a clipper,cutter, anaconda, corvette and other large ships. If you bind a button to target hostile and press it when interdicted you can see what ship the pirate is in and either choose to jump to another system or just go back to cruise.

 

[Ceekay]

Mines can be quite effective but the ship launching them needs to be faster than the pursuer, chaff can help medium ships avoid some laser fire but with the large ones it's not very effective, AFAIK ECM is intended to decoy torpedoes.

Your shield is way to small for a ship trying to avoid pirate attacks so I'd replace the chaff/ECM with shield boosters that should help a little. Engineering modules will improve performance significantly (shield, armour, thrusters etc)

TDH for large scale mining I'd use a T10 quite a bit less cargo but even with a mining loadout it's got decent combat capabilities, also an A grade prospector controller will release more frags from an asteroid.

This T10 build has all the mining tools so you could replace the one you don't use with more weapons

https://coriolis.io/outfit/type_10_...oBhA2AWECMBWaICmBDA5gGzSRCIkKUoA&bn=T10 miner

 

[Ethaidan]

I disagree with your choice of bi-weaves. That pig is never going create enough dustahce/time to recharge. I have a trade T-9 engineered to survive multiple Elite Anaconda pirate attacks. I've modified it for your mining setup using size 6 prismatics, 2X OA boosters and a 4D GSR to make your shield passable, 7A, 5A and 3A collectors (so 9 instead of 10, but using one less slot), same prospector & refinery, no docking computer, and the result is:

1. Shield: 240mj with 50/40/-20 resistances -> 630Mj with 64/48/57 resistances
2. Hull: 480 with -40/-20/0 resistances -> 2600 with 20/20/20

Coriolis EDCD Edition

A ship builder, outfitting and comparison tool for Elite Dangerous

coriolis.io

Apologies for the link, but the shortener isn't working.

 

[schlowi123]

Thank you for the answers (especially the one with the prospector ).
I read from it the following:

• I can increase shield + hull strength by a certain factor if I want too. That would increase the time I survive by the same factor … I guess.
• My shield is STILL to small … I had upgraded it already from a 6 to a 7. I'm a bit reluctant to upgrade it to an 8 since the increase in shield strength seems not to be worth sacrificing the 128 tons of cargo.
• The hint with the T10 is very much appreciated. I will give it some thoughts. But I really like my T9 … it's form, it's purpose. I had worked to purchase one for several month's so I'm rather attached to it.
• @Ethaidan: Coriolis isn't working for me at the moment. I will take a look at it later. It is likely that I may switch the shields and do the hull thing. But aren't prismatic shields Power Play goodies? I'm in Colonia for a while.
• The mass lock factor thingy was very interesting to read about. It is the pirate ships themselv that keep me from low waking (?). So according to this table can even a Krait prevent me from jumping. Does anybody know how higher MLF (compared to my own) translates to higher FSD recharge time? Assuming normally 5 seconds FSD recharge time how many seconds does it increase for each MLF point above my own?

Also, these pesky pirates don't have such a device that keeps me from jumping? Such a device exist, doesn't it? … I think I've read about it somewhere but never really bothered to check it out because usually I'm a traveling chicken among the stars and do mining/trading just for the fun of it when I'm in danger of getting space mad.
- And finally regarind the docking computer: I would like to keep it, because that is the time when I do (small) stuff in real life … hoovering a room, getting dishes into the dishwasher, hanging cleaned clothes onto the rack etc. pp. This possibility is one of the more important reasons for me why I like ED so much … a higher compatibilty with RL than most other games.

 

[CMDR Cknarf]

I’d invest in some prismatic shields. Best thing I ever got for the old T9.

I have a pretty solid one myself that will shake off NPCs and players alike, and I’ll chime in when I have more time.

The T9 is a fantastic machine, but it’s not the most user friendly. Takes a little work to make one really shine, but it’s certainly possible.

 

[BradHann]

Assuming I have a missions and the above mentioned radical doesn't want me to fulfill it. What will they do? Will they demand all the cargo? Can't do that? Will they shoot me in any case?

If memory serves, enemies spawned by missions rather than by random encounters will always try to kill you. They'll never ask for cargo.

The mass lock factor thingy was very interesting to read about. It is the pirate ships themselv that keep me from low waking (?). So according to this table can even a Krait prevent me from jumping. Does anybody know how higher MLF (compared to my own) translates to higher FSD recharge time? Assuming normally 5 seconds FSD recharge time how many seconds does it increase for each MLF point above my own?

By FSD recharge time do you mean how long it takes to spool up and jump, or how long it takes to come online after being dragged out of supercruise? In the case of the former, jumping to another system is always the same length of time regardless, and jumping into supercruise depends on the mass-lock factor of nearby ships, but I have no idea what the formula is. In the case of the latter, if you submit to an interdiction the cooldown is 10 seconds but if you try to fight the interdiction and fail the cooldown is 40 seconds.

On a somewhat related note, but not directly responding to the OP - is anyone able to reliably win the interdiction mini-game in a T9?

 

[GroG79]

I always submit against npcs cause that is faster. But winning the mini game is not so hard; Set throttle in the blue zone for some extra maneuverings power.

I submit cause I build my T9 for open/powerplay

Coriolis EDCD Edition

A ship builder, outfitting and comparison tool for Elite Dangerous

s.orbis.zone

 

[13A/24B]

There's some good ideas already, so here's my build to add more confusion

Behold the Colossus

With engineering I find I can run 3 C2 mining lasers without any real power problems, and the 3rd one really speeds up rock stripping.

Another tip, put your collectors in the same fire group as your lasers, they'll automatically launch when you start mining or when one expires.

 

[Axiom Shift]

13A/24B, ^ That T-9 miner setup is a thing of beauty. I was going to build a cutter for mining as I'm outgrowing my armed minerconda with 224 cargo, but you probably just changed my mind. Never stop to fight the pirates anyway while mining, so might as well use a better boat for the job.

(IMHO) The best way to beat the pirates is to win the interdiction mini-game, which is easy in my 'conda. While I've never flown a T-9, I can't image it's much harder than the horrible turning exhibited by a 'conda in supercruise.

 

[K Olley]

is anyone able to reliably win the interdiction mini-game in a T9?

Yes, 9 out of 10 times.

Throttle control, put it in the blue when manoeuvring and full when lined up.

my T9 is A rated and engineered enough that on the odd occasion that I loose I can survive long enough to high wake out against any NPC that I have met so far.

I still submit when running empty because its faster, ATM supplying damaged stations so running in full out empty.

 

[Ethaidan]

There is a simpler system, if you can stomach it...

Stack three 180t/10mcr missions - 540t for 30mcr. Fill the rest of your hold with non-mission gold. If you get interdicted, submit, wait for demand, drop non-mission gold, low-wake. That's a pretty pathetic piracy tax to save the time & faff of fighting the interdiction, maybe submitting last-minute if it goes wrong, and hi-waking out only to have to jump back and run the gauntlet again.

 

[wetwire]

The type-9's speed is the major issue against pirates. Even engineered you will be hard pressed out outrun them, and the mass lock factor of the pirate will delay your jump count down while under 3k from the opponent. Ideal options are to obviously evade interdiction, shield tank it while you charge the jump which in itself is expecting a lot. or combat in the Type-9 which is also a troublesome task.
The objective is survival, Chaff and Point Defense aid in this respect by breaking gimbled weapon lock and warding off missiles and hatch breaker limpets. Total shield MJ is optimized over recharge rate in this situation as once shields break you rarely have enough hull or maneuverability to survive long enough for them to restore even if they are fast charging. Engineering Thrusters for speed, and Power Distrubitor for engine focus is ideal to creating distance and how often you can boost. but even still the Type-9 when modified is still only pushing around 300m/s boost which is pitiful. Now the Type-9 can equip a ship launched fighter with an NPC crew, this may distract the pirate long enough to create some distance and jump away but NPC AI normally favors targeting the player over other NPC.

A suggestion that may work (have not tested personally but sounds promising "hypothetically")
Switching to hull tanking, replace the shield generator with a Hull reinforcment packages. These have a max size of 5 so your can move some optional internals around and it would free up the size 7 slot. the more reinforcements the better obviously. Once submitting to an interdiction boost away and turn on silent running. you will heat up so liberal use of heat sinks will go along way. Deploy chaff constantly and launch the ship launched fighter as distractions. The idea is to make you the hardest target to shoot at. Equipping turret cannons in your open hardpoints with the Force Shell experimental, which when they hit the target will push them off course. Could combine this with the drag munition experimental from a frag cannon (prevents thrust increase) and the dispersal field on cannons (works like chaff). Not trying to deal damage but instead trying to create distance as you keep running in one direction while being hard to target with chaff and silent running.

 

[13A/24B]

I have to say that I've never had a problem with pirates while T9 mining.

On multi-jump routes I don't hang about in between jumps, so there's negligible chance of a pirate getting lined up for an interdiction. I pick a market which is close to the star (no more than 100ls if I can find one) so again there's not much time for interdiction on the final jump. As soon as I enter the system I go to galmap and pick a system, any system and plot to it, then retarget the station. If I'm interdicted I submit, select 'jump to next' and jump before my shields drop.

 

[Boo76]

Heat sinks. They make you invisible so after you submit to interdiction , deploy a heat sink and boost away until you are not affected by the pirate ships mass. Also I had my FSD engineered to restart after 5 seconds. You can decrease the FSD cool down time. It's been a while since I used my T9 but I loved it. Thing is you could do with a friend defending you because it gets real intense with pirates interdicting all the time. Oh, and mine launchers can be engineered and I think I had experimental effect which messed up the pirates thrusters as I made my escape. Fly safe, o7

 

[HunterMemnoch]

I disagree with your choice of bi-weaves. That pig is never going create enough dustahce/time to recharge. I have a trade T-9 engineered to survive multiple Elite Anaconda pirate attacks. I've modified it for your mining setup using size 6 prismatics, 2X OA boosters and a 4D GSR to make your shield passable, 7A, 5A and 3A collectors (so 9 instead of 10, but using one less slot), same prospector & refinery, no docking computer, and the result is:

1. Shield: 240mj with 50/40/-20 resistances -> 630Mj with 64/48/57 resistances
2. Hull: 480 with -40/-20/0 resistances -> 2600 with 20/20/20

Coriolis EDCD Edition

A ship builder, outfitting and comparison tool for Elite Dangerous

coriolis.io

Apologies for the link, but the shortener isn't working.

To improve on yours a bit, I only removed the pulse wave analyzer and replaced it with another booster running G5 Heavy Duty w/SuperCap https://s.orbis.zone/4phg.
Shields: 846 totaling 1930 with thermal resistances. I'd say this is very good, and with the hull it has, this is probably ungankable. It can run from even CMDRs before it's too late since it has 2,600 hull hitpoints.

 

[Northpin]

As weird as it may sound, the best way to improve your T9 is to replace it with a Cutter

 

[Speedcuffs]

As weird as it may sound, the best way to improve your T9 is to replace it with a Cutter

Read your post three times. Nope. Still not getting it.

 

[Old Duck]

I don't ever remember being mass locked in my Type-9... I'd just submit, boost, and wake (all pips to shields, FA-off). I only had modest-size A-rated shields (I'd rather haul cargo than a giant shield generator), and it was very rare they'd go down fully before I waked out. Just in case, I used at least reinforced hull (maybe even military, I cannot recall). I also had a lot of B-rated and reinforced modules.

I don't think I equipped chaff, since the ship is so big that it's hard to miss chaff or not. I believe I went all point defense because I envisioned missiles being the biggest threat. Maybe some shield boosters, too (it's been awhile). This was all built with PvE in mind. If I see a PvP ship, I just drop to normal space early and high wake from there or switch to Solo. The game is way too unbalanced to haul cargo through ganker-infested space.