PvP How to make PvP piracy be made engaging/rewarding for both participants

[ALGOMATIC]

Ian tbh the economy and money making in ED is so fundamentally borked now that is really too late to fix.

Not saying they cannot make changes. I am saying that the majority of players have so many credits that rebuys or even buying new ships, are a non issue.

The exploits and EASY money systems, that has made everyone billionaires are now so ingrained in player psyche. That to remove them and make it so future players need to work harder to get credits and ships. Would be met with such hatred, it is just not going to happen.

The best thing ED could do and this is NEVER EVER EVER going to happen. Is for FDEV to fix the game, fix the economy, re-balance costs, careers.. well basically everything and then put EVERY SINGLE PLAYER back into a sidewinder. Full Galaxy wipe and have people start again.

Early game when moving from a Viper to an Asp and fitting that Asp, was a big deal and made the game special.

But thats never going to happen because its just not.. So the best we can hope for is for FDEV to create things for rich players to sink they funds into and balance the careers around that.

There is even a post on reddit today how all missions under pay except passenger ones.
As with passenger ones it will only take you a whole day to make a billion. This level of money making now, is pretty much expected. Which is just sad.

A billion in a day... back when this game launched ( without the bounty hunting exploit ) would have been laughed out of Leesti,

It wont help your original issue of piracy being dead.
Give me one reason for a trader to fly in OPEN mode.

 

[Powderpanic]

It wont help your original issue of piracy being dead.
Give me one reason for a trader to fly in OPEN mode.

I mentioned Open having a bonus, twice at least in this thread.

I just cannot be bothered to deal with the change denies and being told what someone in FD said 4 years ago.

 

[Ziggy Stardust]

People say being the piratee is no fun. I have been the piratee in 5 occasions, and only 1 was dreary. Just repeated "Drop X cargo or die". The other 4 resulted in conversation or roleplaying, or banter and were excellent.

It's the no comms, shoot at sight dimwits that are the annoyance.

Give me one reason for a trader to fly in OPEN mode.

Because the trader likes random encounters.

 

[Goose4291]

Can we not remove engineers as part of the wipe?

Maybe change some of the base stats for ships to keep some of the more popular choices. Like faster more agile combat ships, with better distributors. Bin the rest.

In a dream world and for game reasons.

Small ships. super duper fastand agile as hell. Weaker weapons, need to work as a wing to take down a bigger ship.

Medium. Support class. Stronger shields and weapons, less agile than a small fighter but able to trouble a large ships on its own.

Large ships. Lumbering hulks with insane firepower and the turning of a disabled whale stuck in tar. Useless at taking out fighters, so needs support ships.

Its a little EvE, sure... but would be hella interesting.

Ive always said that an Anaconda being able to go faster backwards than an eagle can forwards is stupid and balance breaking

 

[Han_Zen]

Can we not remove engineers as part of the wipe?

I would not want them removed, but changed quite a bit. I would like that they were modifiers, not improveers.

Remove all RNG and remove the overcharged PP blueprint.

Now we can have an adjustable power/effectiveness balancing.

If I want dirty drive and Rail Gun on my ship and don't have power, I go to the Engineer and adjust the rail gun for less power and less damage per shot. Other bits could have other relations. Weight/integrity for example.

 

[Agony_Aunt]

Glad you see how screwed up the multiplayer content is because of that design.

PvP, yeah, probably. Coop PvE, fine.

 

[Julio Montega]

PvP, yeah, probably. Coop PvE, fine.

I think you need to set the filter to higher resolution:

Random PvP is totally different from
Staged PvP, like in the PvP hub matches.

 

[Ethaidan]

OP: Interesting, but well travelled points. Are you looking for suggestions, discussion, are we hoping FDev may read/skim one of the plethora of post about this and reach an epiphany that catalyses a fundamental change?

I agree, the foundation of income sources/economy is fundamentally flawed when it comes to trade and/or piracy. This needs reworking before any other changes will be effective.

But in the spirit of your post, how about introducing a new cargo flag? We have illegal and stolen. How about adding pirated - conditional on recovery from a PC (not NPC) following an interdiction. Give these goods a profit multiplier (yes, a bit gamey, but meh), which only applies if the goods are sold at a BM in an anarchy system (again, a bit gamey, but would encourage pirates to not only have cargo space, but also an FSD capable of inter-system travel). Sure, there's some scope for player-player exploiting, but it won't be a smeaton-breaker. I'd go even one step further... tie the pirated goods multiplier to PP faction, on a loooong term basis (i.e. +0.1 to the multiplier for every consecutive month pledged to AD) with no piracy multiplier for pirating from the same Power.

Making things more fun (impossible) for piratee, however, I got nothing. As with all other mmo PvP, it may be down to acceptance of this danger, RP engagement, etc. As a token gesture, how about letting victims flag pirates - following a successful kws - which flags them on the galaxy map (like friends) until a bounty hunter from the same Power claims their bounty.

As for high-waking to escape being too easy... is it really? Or are the current manifestation of pirates (gankers) just not willing to sacrifice a precious weapon slot from their min/max uber dps tanks to equip a single rapid-fire missile bank? The KOS gang at Ngalia last night were embarassingly easy to evade... and I heard traders taunting them at Gren Enterpise about it.

PS modey, modey, modey, clog!

PSS (below)... I think your record is skipping again, you should get a tech to look into that.

Nothing will ever work until OPEN will have extra rewards otherwise there is no point in trading in this mode.
Until this happens (which is never) nothing will change.

 

[Powderpanic]

OP: Interesting, but well travelled points. Are you looking for suggestions, discussion, are we hoping FDev may read/skim one of the plethora of post about this and reach an epiphany that catalyses a fundamental change?

I agree, the foundation of income sources/economy is fundamentally flawed when it comes to trade and/or piracy. This needs reworking before any other changes will be effective.

But in the spirit of your post, how about introducing a new cargo flag? We have illegal and stolen. How about adding pirated - conditional on recovery from a PC (not NPC) following an interdiction. Give these goods a profit multiplier (yes, a bit gamey, but meh), which only applies if the goods are sold at a BM in an anarchy system (again, a bit gamey, but would encourage pirates to not only have cargo space, but also an FSD capable of inter-system travel). Sure, there's some scope for player-player exploiting, but it won't be a smeaton-breaker. I'd go even one step further... tie the pirated goods multiplier to PP faction, on a loooong term basis (i.e. +0.1 to the multiplier for every consecutive month pledged to AD) with no piracy multiplier for pirating from the same Power.

Making things more fun (impossible) for piratee, however, I got nothing. As with all other mmo PvP, it may be down to acceptance of this danger, RP engagement, etc. As a token gesture, how about letting victims flag pirates - following a successful kws - which flags them on the galaxy map (like friends) until a bounty hunter from the same Power claims their bounty.

As for high-waking to escape being too easy... is it really? Or are the current manifestation of prates (gankers) just not willing to sacrifice a precious weapon slot from their min/max uber dps tanks to equip a single rapid-fire missile bank? The KOS gang at Ngalia last night were embarassingly easy to evade... and I heard traders taunting them at Gren Enterpise aboutbit.

PS modey, modey, modey, clog!

PSS (below)... I think your record is skipping again, you should get a tech to look into that.

Honestly the pirate does not need additional ways to make credits. A successful heist of 100 tonnes of something juicy, is worth the effort.
If we were in it purely for the credits, there are far easier and quicker ways to make billions in a day.

My post was more about getting over the idea that you can somehow make being mugged in space as consistently fun event.
The best you can hope for is to make it exciting and to give a trader a fighting chance.

You brought up highwaking and the grom missile or an adequately engineered dumb fire. This will only enable you to stop the unskilled or weaker ships.
These generally you dont need the fsd reset for anyway.

The usual situation is

Interdiction.
Submit.
Highwake attempt.
Manage a late FSD Reset
FSD Resets
Highwake attempt 2, while now immune to a second reset,
Gone.

Which goes back to the balance between making traders tougher and killing piracy.

Too tough and they can tank long enough to high wake. Heck the smart ones might even add in a single point defence.

Its just about doable with a Wing vs a single Hybrid trade ship.

Submit highwake is just too strong. I saves gankers way more than it saves weaker traders.

 

[Anopheles]

Not many people liked this idea but I think it adds literal texture and makes it more of an hunter prey relationship.

Layered Supercruise.

Instead of having one layer of Supercruise have 3 (or more in high tech systems).

The highest layer/lane/level takes longer (0.5x speed) but is further from real space. Lowest is fastest (2x speed) but next to real space...

Now a pirate sees a mark in the central layer as he enters the system (the old single layer). The trader sees the dread fall behind manoeuvre and triangle of inconvenience....

Johnny Trader yelps. He then changes to another layer of Supercruise. But which one? Lower is quicker but closer to space! Higher is slower but interdictions take longer and longer means more opportunities to escape.

Quick pilot! Decide!

Billy Pirate also has a decision to make. Choose wrong and the mark could get away.

Quick pilot! Decide!

He chooses. Correctly. High layer. Because of the Layer Shift Delay Johnny Trader is stuck here for x time. Should'a invested in a better Frame Shift Doohickey!

Tethered! The Leestl Sleigh Ride begins! Dragged down to the middle layer! The tether is still attached - just! The interdiction takes longer, poorly ventilated pirate ships are getting hotter! Palms are getting sweaty!

2-0 to Billy Pirate! The bottom.layer. one more interdiction success and sweet robbery can begin.

Exhausted like great fish, the two ships wrestle anew. Both ships are now taking heat damage. Who will break first?

Oh, no! Billy Pirate's Interdiction device as malfunctioned because of the heat danage! He should'a invested in a sturdier part.

Little Piratettes are going hungry tonight. Dejected, he watches the yellow square of hope blink out of the lane.

Later he tells his pirate buddies that the reason the mark escaped was only because he was ambushed by 6 huge police ships... or was it 8??

**

That would be enough on its own but you could also add modules like Lane trackers, tracker limpets, 'false flag' modules (disguise your adder as a fer de lance) and 'true sight' modules.

Now that's an exciting experience.

 

[-Denali-]

I think if you really want to make traders okay with piracy you need to find a way to make being pirated rewarding and to lower some of the cost that they risk.

A) Let traders buy cargo insurance. Cost based on value of goods and risk of destination.

B) Give them the insurance buy back on delivery (like a maturing life insurance policy).

C) Give them a % bonus if they were interdicted/attacked between purchase and delivery but escaped with most cargo.

(I'm assuming that when they update trading mechanics they'll allow you to select a destination for your goods. A simple enough mechanic.)

 

[Sole Hunter]

I think if you really want to make traders okay with piracy you need to find a way to make being pirated rewarding and to lower some of the cost that they risk.

A) Let traders buy cargo insurance. Cost based on value of goods and risk of destination.

B) Give them the insurance buy back on delivery (like a maturing life insurance policy).

C) Give them a % bonus if they were interdicted/attacked between purchase and delivery but escaped with most cargo.

(I'm assuming that when they update trading mechanics they'll allow you to select a destination for your goods. A simple enough mechanic.)

this is what we've been asking since 1999 but the devs are sleeping.