How to progress Alerts most effectively.

[Jmanis]

I tried something earlier which may suggest some value in knowing what are the actual Research success rates. Cyclops research seems to be around 50% going by limpets in versus samples out, though moreover I wanted to present yet another reason not to hunt the Orthrus—its Research success rate seems to be a meager 5% or so.

That's just the same old bug FD haven't fixed in five years.

Pre-emptive "Research Limpets are Bugged" Thread

Just some prelims: Why's this here? There's a good chance the next CG is going to be a Thargoid Tissue Sampling CG, and I'm just trying to get ahead of the game and get visibility of this bug in a vain attempt to head this one off early. If the next CG turns out not to be the tissue sampling...

forums.frontier.co.uk

 

[Aleks Zuno]

That's just the same old bug FD haven't fixed in five years.

Pre-emptive "Research Limpets are Bugged" Thread

Just some prelims: Why's this here? There's a good chance the next CG is going to be a Thargoid Tissue Sampling CG, and I'm just trying to get ahead of the game and get visibility of this bug in a vain attempt to head this one off early. If the next CG turns out not to be the tissue sampling...

forums.frontier.co.uk

Interesting—although, does that explain an observable difference in the specific probability for the Orthrus versus the others? You stated around 40–75%, and indeed I observe almost exactly 50% quite reliably from other Interceptors (non-Hydra thus far), but 3 samples from 50 limpets is a far too low rate to accept 50% for the Orthrus. The chance of getting 3 or fewer from 50 attempts then would be around 1 in 540 billion, and the million-to-one point occurs between 8 or fewer (1.7M to 1) and 9 or fewer (356k to 1). I have to conclude that something causes the Orthrus chance to be much lower, though I presume the bug mechanism is unknown.

The 50% felt like it was by design, though I suppose the biggest indication otherwise is that a failed limpet does not simply expire, and instead insists on returning (carrying nothing) before the limpet controller will agree to send another. I contemplated rebooting the Universal limpet controller then reaping the dropped samples with collectors, though that it a bit too much fiddling just to start sending more Research limpets sooner.

 

[Jmanis]

Interesting—although, does that explain an observable difference in the specific probability for the Orthrus versus the others? You stated around 40–75%, and indeed I observe almost exactly 50% quite reliably from other Interceptors (non-Hydra thus far), but 3 samples from 50 limpets is a far too low rate to accept 50% for the Orthrus. The chance of getting 3 or fewer from 50 attempts then would be around 1 in 540 billion, and the million-to-one point occurs between 8 or fewer (1.7M to 1) and 9 or fewer (356k to 1). I have to conclude that something causes the Orthrus chance to be much lower, though I presume the bug mechanism is unknown.

The 50% felt like it was by design, though I suppose the biggest indication otherwise is that a failed limpet does not simply expire, and instead insists on returning (carrying nothing) before the limpet controller will agree to send another. I contemplated rebooting the Universal limpet controller then reaping the dropped samples with collectors, though that it a bit too much fiddling just to start sending more Research limpets sooner.

The two things I've thought of is basically:

• It's related to lag/latency; or
• It's related to the fact Interceptors scoop tissue samples, and the limpet docks in the rough vicinity of where it scoops.

Collection rates are anywhere between 5% and 100% in my experience. For me it averages out around 20% across any interceptors (including Orthrus)... others say they average up to 70%. It's simply not consistent between players.

As far as I'm concerned there's nothing "By design" with less than a 100% success rate, which was originally how it used to work. FD have now cancelled two CGs because of this bug. The implications for FD if they cancelled two CGs because of a bugreport about something "by design" are frankly not good.

I could regurgitate 5 years worth observations of tracking this bug and the litany of evidence from other players, but I'm just exhausted by it.

 

[Uiros Ueramos]

I use a shieldless conda with a size 6 corrosive cargo rack (which not everyone will have)

You can bet not everyone has. How did you get one?

 

[Jmanis]

You can bet not everyone has. How did you get one?

Was a reward from a CG.

COMPLETED CG - Professor Palin requests deliveries of Thargoid artefacts

Summary System: Arque Station: Baird Gateway (Coriolis Starport, large pads available, 587 Ls from main star, 98.02 Ly from Sol) Objective: Deliver Thargoid probes, Thargoid resin and Thargoid sensors Time limit: 16th June 3308 @ 06:00 UTC Description Professor Ishmael Palin has requested...

forums.frontier.co.uk

 

[Uiros Ueramos]

Was a reward from a CG.

COMPLETED CG - Professor Palin requests deliveries of Thargoid artefacts

Summary System: Arque Station: Baird Gateway (Coriolis Starport, large pads available, 587 Ls from main star, 98.02 Ly from Sol) Objective: Deliver Thargoid probes, Thargoid resin and Thargoid sensors Time limit: 16th June 3308 @ 06:00 UTC Description Professor Ishmael Palin has requested...

forums.frontier.co.uk

Thank you for the answer. Too bad that all sizes of CRCR weren't unblocked in such a CG.

 

[Weps]

To me it seems that the activities are not just unbalanced, but that the scenarios are downright broken. How can an AX ship signatures [Threat 4] generate 2 Cyclopes and a pretty interesting fight (think 10% of an Invasion AXCZ), but an AX ship signatures [Threat 6] generates just 2 Scouts and a single Anaconda that takes them out before I can get in range...

Unless they purposefully put incorrect Threat values in the SS names to mess with the players, in which case aaa.. such a good joke.... ha ha /s

 

[Disemboweled Ego]

I've been doing a lot of hyperdiction sampling in alert systems and I discovered a new technique.

If you go into silent running and launch a research limpet at the interceptor before it has time to acquire you as a target, it'll aggro on the reseach limpet instead of you.

It'll stay aggrod on the limpets as long as you don't shoot it and there's limpets to go around.

The limpets don't attach very well and seem to have a 100% fail rate if they eventually do, but this is still useful in a few ways:

• In multi goid hyperdictions you can choose which goid to aggro, if you kite them far enough the other goid will leave once the limpet expires and it has no targets.
• In single goid hyperdictions you can distract the goid with a research limpet until you deal with the scout wave 2-3 minutes into the hyperdiction encounter and then aggro the goid proper to sample/fight it.
• I guess you could use this to stay safe while you wing up and get other players to the hyperdiction instance

For orthrus sampling, based on how it seems to always fail on the non-aggrod goids it might have to do with that, or acceleration/rotation, both of which it the orhtrus does while running way. Shooting it before the limpet attaches might be worth trying though since I think people do one or the other usually.

 

[Aleks Zuno]

I've been doing a lot of hyperdiction sampling in alert systems and I discovered a new technique.
If you go into silent running and launch a research limpet at the interceptor before it has time to acquire you as a target, it'll aggro on the reseach limpet instead of you.
It'll stay aggrod on the limpets as long as you don't shoot it and there's limpets to go around.
The limpets don't attach very well and seem to have a 100% fail rate if they eventually do

Something like this! I managed it without Silent Running, though I agree regarding the 100% failure while that is occurring.

 

[Alec Turner]

I've not seen any suggestion from anyone that this works, and the Galnet article does appear to suggest we're literally JUST supposed to kill the Orthrus (which I find massively disappointing), but I really wish denying the Orthrus the probe it's trying to scoop, by ANY means (e.g. stealing it), was the main way to push back alerts. Assuming this truly doesn't work, Frontier seriously missed a trick here imho.

 

[Aleks Zuno]

I've not seen any suggestion from anyone that this works, and the Galnet article does appear to suggest we're literally JUST supposed to kill the Orthrus (which I find massively disappointing), but I really wish denying the Orthrus the probe it's trying to scoop, by ANY means (e.g. stealing it), was the main way to push back alerts. Assuming this truly doesn't work, Frontier seriously missed a trick here imho.

Research samples work spectacularly. Just yesterday within an hour or so, I encountered:

• Double-cyclops, 16 samples.
• Basilisk, 50 samples.
• Cyclops, 56 samples.

That delivery moved Col 285 Sector WN-Z b14-6 from 20% to 50%. I am going to clear that system myself, then I will clear Hyades Sector LN-K b8-3 myself if @Disemboweled Ego does not do it first. Next cycle I plan to discover how well I can evict them from Control systems myself.

 

[Disemboweled Ego]

I usually get 25 samples + killing all hearts off a cyclops (splitting dual cyclops/killing scouts in single cyclops) and 10-15 from other interceptors with a shieldless silent running conda, but it's starting to become constrained by cargo and heat sinks (only 64 cargo). It was way lower than that when I was just starting this though.

 

[Kissamies]

Hyperdiction is bugged when in wing. You'll just end up in the same system you left. We call this the "zero jump". Seems like the best practices are lone wolf activity then.

 

[Uiros Ueramos]

In addition to complimenting Aleks Zuno for organizing and maintaining all the info in the Thargoid invasion - Next target systems? thread, concerning the most crucial areas of intervention in this war, as a way to organize AX pilots that want to contribute as best as they can, I must compliment those involved in the research activities that are related to Alert systems and the ways to turn them around to prevent future invasions. Your work is greatly appreciated and, judging from Frontier's statements, crucial in to turning the tide of the invasion. Many thanks to you all.

Edited after a post mistake.

 

[Weps]

I do hope FDEV have an eye on this thread. Judging by the reports here:

~ 120t samples progress the bar by 30%
~ 120t salvage (pods etc.) progress the bar by 0.0072%
(unless I'm catastrophically misunderstanding what is written here)

The difference is astounding, considering the time effort is roughly the same (measured in hours, either to get the samples, or to drop in USSes and gather the salvage).

I remember on the FDEV Livestream, when Derin announced that they introduced a new mechanic for the salvage to indicate the item origin system. He worded it as something very innovative for E: D and made it sound like it was a big deal for the game. If this is truly so, it can't be that they missed the mark by this much with the balance, there has got to be a bug involved...

PS: is it really so, am I missing something somewhere? Can someone help me out with the math?

 

[yttrbio]

They may just not realize what bulk tissue sampling entails.

 

[Wlfric]

They may just not realize what bulk tissue sampling entails.

almost like they don't play their own game? LOL

 

[Uiros Ueramos]

So, from the reports of this late week, 8 Alerts were cleared and 2 Control were evicted.

This seems to me a big progress concerning Alert systems, specially since only a small number of CMDRs seems to be involved in this process.

I know FDev changed some numbers to make progression easier in Alert systems, but the results seem to show a great difference.

Were these improvements almost exclusively caused by Thargoid tissue sampling?

 

[Weps]

As I have yet neither killed nor probed an Orthrus: what would be the best approach should I ever encounter one: kill it, or probe it as much as possible? How many samples could you get out of it assuming good conditions (perfect flying, adequate controller etc.), and would that number progress the effort more than the kill itself?

And regarding the kill, what is a rule of thumb estimate on the required firepower (e.g. X modshards or Y AX Missiles etc.)? Meaning having just enough to kill it before it flees.

 

[Jmanis]

As I have yet neither killed nor probed an Orthrus: what would be the best approach should I ever encounter one: kill it, or probe it as much as possible? How many samples could you get out of it assuming good conditions (perfect flying, adequate controller etc.), and would that number progress the effort more than the kill itself?

And regarding the kill, what is a rule of thumb estimate on the required firepower (e.g. X modshards or Y AX Missiles etc.)? Meaning having just enough to kill it before it flees.

You're not going to get more than one cycle of research limpets run successfully on one... and you'll need an anti-shutdown field.

As for killing it... I'll defer to someone else for that.