How would you have implemented the FSS?

[CMDR Cosmic Spacehead]

I'd simply allow it to be used while moving.

Bind some basic throttle controls in to the FSS, and allow us to move along while scanning. If something is getting too difficult to track and zoom due to relative movement, we can chose to slow down.

I'd also have a spectrum filter, so if I'm just looking for USSs, I can filter and stretch that section, which will spread out the various types of USSs, allowing me to pinpoint the ones I'm looking for.

 

[-VR- Max Factor]

It makes a great deal of sense if you solely think of the FSS as a body scanner integrated into your cockpit, and that the mechanism of 'finding' a body is the previous select, steer, and scan.

That is pretty much what I wanted. An extra tool to put in my existing exploration method, not a tool that completely invalpidated it.

Finding a planet in the FSS is not a skill, it's a time sink.

But there is a difference. In the current FSS you need to find them. In your version you just follow the compass and you will have it. Basically you already know it's pinpoint location. To me it would be like grind. I would always be thinking why on earth do I have to actually zoom myself when the ships computer can tell me exactly where it is anyway and should be able to zoom automatically.

It's just my way of thinking. I understand why you would prefer this version with your playstyle.

You have the beginnings of a good idea, but I would suggest removing the FSS entirely as a mechanic and replace it with something completely different. Just my opinion of course.

As to time sinks, all gameplay is a time sink. Remove all the time sinks and there will be no game to play. It just you are not keen on this time sink. I find it pretty good.

 

[CMDR Karrde Sun]

Like the one in x4? I don't know i've never played it. But it sure looks better.

How about this:

Have an in cockpit pulse like the mining pulse that lets undiscovered bodies be targetable by the ships systems for a few seconds.
Once targeted (or even without), go into the fss as it is now and discover it, or if you've completely gone insane.. fly there in the space flight simulator your bought.

Yep that would do it. Leave everything else as it is for the sake of not upsetting white knighters.

(What that would do is OPTIONALLY replace the panning part of the cookie clicker with your ship).

 

[-VR- Max Factor]

Like the one in x4? I don't know i've never played it. But it sure looks better.

How about this:

Have an in cockpit pulse like the mining pulse that lets undiscovered bodies be targetable by the ships systems for a few seconds.
Once targeted (or even without), go into the fss as it is now and discover it, or if you've completely gone insane.. fly there in the space flight simulator your bought.

Yep that would do it. Leave everything else as it is for the sake of not upsetting white knighters.

(What that would do is OPTIONALLY replace the panning part of the cookie clicker with your ship).

Why do you have to lower yourself with petty insults?

 

[CMDR Karrde Sun]

Why do you have to lower yourself with petty insults?

I wasn't insulting anyone. Oh did i hit a nerve there?

Be proud of your colors man. If you're going to walk the walk you should wear the hat.

 

[MadDogMurdock]

But there is a difference. In the current FSS you need to find them. In your version you just follow the compass and you will have it. Basically you already know it's pinpoint location. To me it would be like grind. I would always be thinking why on earth do I have to actually zoom myself when the ships computer can tell me exactly where it is anyway and should be able to zoom automatically.

It's just my way of thinking. I understand why you would prefer this version with your playstyle.

You have the beginnings of a good idea, but I would suggest removing the FSS entirely as a mechanic and replace it with something completely different. Just my opinion of course.

As to time sinks, all gameplay is a time sink. Remove all the time sinks and there will be no game to play. It just you are not keen on this time sink. I find it pretty good.

When the game is primarily about flying a spaceship, I prefer my gameplay time sinks to involve doing that rather than instead of it.

If we're on a completely blank slate, then I wouldn't have come up with the FSS either, but with some basic principles in mind, the result would have been along the lines I suggested of how I'd like to use what we ended up with.

Reduce the system reveal of the ADS but still provide enough information to enable the informed selection of bodies of interest for navigation and targetting purposes.
I'd potentially have made the primary body scanner mechanism probe based - fire at any target in the system with a faster than ship SC acceleration to get to targets faster than you could fly there and reveal the level of info that the FSS does.
I think I'd have made the surface scanner ship based, detecting the signals of interest below you from orbital cruise level to within an search area that you would then have to descend towards and investigate using something like the Pulse Wave Scanner to resolve the location more accurately.

The System exploration path would then be something along the lines of:

• Honk
• Review System Map - black body level reveal most likely
• Fire probes to targettable bodies of interest
• Use their flight time to fly to the nearest 'interesting' body.
• Surface scan by orbiting
• Descend to surface flight to investigate.

By then your probes should have told you more about other bodies in the system.
Investigate as you see fit.

Next system.

The key principle being that all the active gameplay is cockpit based, with the exception of reviewing the results.
The second being that the new systems enhance the previous ones by splitting the exploration into more layers and it's more like peeling them open one at a time.

System Reveal - to a certain level that lets you choose bodies to investigate (by probe or by flying there)
Body Reveal - to a level that let's you decide whether to actually go there
Surface Reveal - involving active flight

The current FSS implementation is more like a jigsaw - you don't know if the picture is interesting until you've already fitted in all the pieces.

 

[Stealthie]

It's all been said before but whatev's...

If it was up to me I'd leave the functionality of the FSS pretty-much as it currently is.
In addition to that, I'd set it up so the initial "honk" populates the Sysmap with generic representations of all the bodies so you can get an overview of a system via the honk.

The honk, alone, would only be useful for providing a visual overview of the system and would yield no information about the planets and no exploration credits or discoveries.
For all that stuff, you'd have to make use of the FSS.

The idea of this would be to allow people to use experience and judgement to look at the sysmap to decide if there's anything "interesting" in a system quickly.
Alternatively, people who want to make a comprehensive survey of a system, and gain the associated credits and discoveries, could use the FSS.

 

[[Diplomacy] Carnegie]

When the game is primarily about flying a spaceship, I prefer my gameplay time sinks to involve doing that rather than instead of it.

If we're on a completely blank slate, then I wouldn't have come up with the FSS either, but with some basic principles in mind, the result would have been along the lines I suggested of how I'd like to use what we ended up with.

Reduce the system reveal of the ADS but still provide enough information to enable the informed selection of bodies of interest for navigation and targetting purposes.
I'd potentially have made the primary body scanner mechanism probe based - fire at any target in the system with a faster than ship SC acceleration to get to targets faster than you could fly there and reveal the level of info that the FSS does.
I think I'd have made the surface scanner ship based, detecting the signals of interest below you from orbital cruise level to within an search area that you would then have to descend towards and investigate using something like the Pulse Wave Scanner to resolve the location more accurately.

The System exploration path would then be something along the lines of:

• Honk
• Review System Map - black body level reveal most likely
• Fire probes to targettable bodies of interest
• Use their flight time to fly to the nearest 'interesting' body.
• Surface scan by orbiting
• Descend to surface flight to investigate.

By then your probes should have told you more about other bodies in the system.
Investigate as you see fit.

Next system.

The key principle being that all the active gameplay is cockpit based, with the exception of reviewing the results.
The second being that the new systems enhance the previous ones by splitting the exploration into more layers and it's more like peeling them open one at a time.

System Reveal - to a certain level that lets you choose bodies to investigate (by probe or by flying there)
Body Reveal - to a level that let's you decide whether to actually go there
Surface Reveal - involving active flight

The current FSS implementation is more like a jigsaw - you don't know if the picture is interesting until you've already fitted in all the pieces.

Being able to launch probes to distant objects would have been totally the way I'd have done it. I'd have given an in-cockpit option for single-body targeting, with an additional screen allowing more complex flight paths to be plotted, utilizing gravity wells and slingshotting to allow multiple bodies to be scanned by a single probe. Probes would be limited (obviously) but synthesizable. The multibody probe screen would be accessible in supercruise and update in realtime. That would have made it perfect for multicrew exploration.

 

[Faded Glory]

I'm not sure the FSS itself needs to be implemented differently...

When it was first introduced, I was certainly concerned that it took us out of our cockpits. I presume there are technical reasons for that, but in the end, I found using it so quick that I honestly wasn't out of my cockpit long enough that it spoiled the play session. (This may not be the case for everybody, but I don't scan every system I jump into, a system has to have some compelling reason for me to engage with it.)

I was also concerned that we'd need to scan something in order to see whether we wanted to scan it, but again, for traditional credit / rank focused exploration that turned out not to be the case. And to be fair to FD, they clearly seem to want players to have a reason for undertaking subsequent gameplay steps. After all, if you are hunting for ELW's, there's no need to scan anything until you've verified on the energy spectrum that one or more are present. Likewise, you don't need to fly 100,000Ls to a planet to see whether there are POI's, you get the information you need to make a decision on each step based upon the preceding one.

Except... While this works for the areas that FD presumably felt were motivating players to explore, it left others behind, namely those who prefer to fly their spaceships at the cost of time savings, and those looking for the stuff that is not readily identifiable by the energy spectrum readout.

So the only thing I would change is that up to the point a system is revealed as 'unexplored' there be alternative views available. Basically, a view that enabled players to target a body and then fly to it if that's what they want to do, and a view that indicates whether something unusual, be that orbits or strangely colored bodies (there may be more) is present. If those views were available, then I would imagine that most exploration playstyles would be well catered for.

 

[MadDogMurdock]

Being able to launch probes to distant objects would have been totally the way I'd have done it. I'd have given an in-cockpit option for single-body targeting, with an additional screen allowing more complex flight paths to be plotted, utilizing gravity wells and slingshotting to allow multiple bodies to be scanned by a single probe. Probes would be limited (obviously) but synthesizable. The multibody probe screen would be accessible in supercruise and update in realtime. That would have made it perfect for multicrew exploration.

Nice!

Seems like the orrery would be a good option for plotting probe routes, and then back to the cockpit for firing. Given the distances involved, inaccurate firing would result in slingshots going off-course.

 

[CushingOToole]

Deleted

 

[IamMe]

My main problem with FSS is being popup screen minigame, it breaks immersion, feeling i'm playing some cheap android game.
I wish they implemented it in ship's HUD, but i guess that is too much for FD or engine limitation is problem.
Goal is to fly and control ships systems from ship/cockpit not floating in space with big screen in front of you.

If HUD is problem than they could leave it being honked with ADS as before and just add DSS probing the planet surface.
I don't care what mehanics it is going to use in scanner but be it as part of the ship cos we are here to fly and control space ships systems not tunning some floating space radio.

Anyway, i was explorer before that update, stopped playing after it, too big immersion breaker!

 

[insanephoton]

I'm not sure how I would have done it, though MadDog and Stealthie's suggestions seem like a good place to start. One thing certainly wouldn't have added (unless there is some super secret perceived need for it in future updates) is the apparently superfluous mode toggle

 

[MadDogMurdock]

I'm not sure how I would have done it, though MadDog and Stealthie's suggestions seem like a good place to start. One thing certainly wouldn't have added (unless there is some super secret perceived need for it in future updates) is the apparently superfluous mode toggle

Analysis Mode seems to me like a solution that no-one told the other dev teams about.
They went and created their separate camera views instead of using it.

 

[Stealthie]

I'm not sure how I would have done it, though MadDog and Stealthie's suggestions seem like a good place to start. One thing certainly wouldn't have added (unless there is some super secret perceived need for it in future updates) is the apparently superfluous mode toggle

That's certainly something that could have either been more useful or, in it's current state, got rid of.

I can already do everything, using fire-groups, that the mode-selector allows me to do.
On top of that, the mode-selector doesn't even provide extra functionality by ignoring fire-groups that aren't compatible with a different mode.
I mean, if I have half a dozen FGs related to weapons, I switch to Analysis Mode and I STILL have to cycle through all my weapon FGs.
That's a complete waste of time.

Implemented optimally, a ship could have various user-defined "modes" and each one would allow you to create FGs and power-priorities specific to that mode - and switching to a specific mode would hide all the FGs related to other modes.

 

[CMDR Karrde Sun]

I get analysis mode, its main function is to switch off the hotspot overlay.

If they wanted to make it useful they could have put the fss blobs there too once energy pulsed.

As pointed out to me during beta, the fss is just an extreme instagram tint over the live starfield anyway with the hud and ship removed, so im guessing it could be done easily.

 

[Lucien Trask]

Having just come back to the game, I definitely find myself more interested in exploring with the FSS than I did with the old method.

I love some of the suggestions here, especially the idea of of the FSS screen being present inside the cockpit. Conversely though, having played a lot of flight sims with TrackIR, I can attest to the fact that trying to read gauges or manipulate knobs and dials inside the cockpit without real hands can get pretty frustrating and tiresome.

 

[-VR- Max Factor]

When the game is primarily about flying a spaceship, I prefer my gameplay time sinks to involve doing that rather than instead of it.

If we're on a completely blank slate, then I wouldn't have come up with the FSS either, but with some basic principles in mind, the result would have been along the lines I suggested of how I'd like to use what we ended up with.

Reduce the system reveal of the ADS but still provide enough information to enable the informed selection of bodies of interest for navigation and targetting purposes.
I'd potentially have made the primary body scanner mechanism probe based - fire at any target in the system with a faster than ship SC acceleration to get to targets faster than you could fly there and reveal the level of info that the FSS does.
I think I'd have made the surface scanner ship based, detecting the signals of interest below you from orbital cruise level to within an search area that you would then have to descend towards and investigate using something like the Pulse Wave Scanner to resolve the location more accurately.

The System exploration path would then be something along the lines of:

• Honk
• Review System Map - black body level reveal most likely
• Fire probes to targettable bodies of interest
• Use their flight time to fly to the nearest 'interesting' body.
• Surface scan by orbiting
• Descend to surface flight to investigate.

By then your probes should have told you more about other bodies in the system.
Investigate as you see fit.

Next system.

The key principle being that all the active gameplay is cockpit based, with the exception of reviewing the results.
The second being that the new systems enhance the previous ones by splitting the exploration into more layers and it's more like peeling them open one at a time.

System Reveal - to a certain level that lets you choose bodies to investigate (by probe or by flying there)
Body Reveal - to a level that let's you decide whether to actually go there
Surface Reveal - involving active flight

The current FSS implementation is more like a jigsaw - you don't know if the picture is interesting until you've already fitted in all the pieces.

Very close to what mine would have been like.

I think we have a fundamental difference in how we view the game. You see it as a game about flying ships. I don't, I see it as me being a commander of my ship which includes needing to use different tools in my ships and doing stuff outside of my ship as well as piloting. It's just some of the stuff hasn't been implemented yet. I see it as more then a ship flying game.

Both views are perfectly valid. Just pointing out our differences in how we view it, which is probably where the incompatibility with some of our opinions lie.

 

[-VR- Max Factor]

I wasn't insulting anyone. Oh did i hit a nerve there?

Be proud of your colors man. If you're going to walk the walk you should wear the hat.

No nerves hit. Calling people white knight is insulting. It's used in a derogatory fashion.

I just find it a bit pathetic that people have to stoop that low. I wish people would accept other people's opinions instead insult them. Maybe I ask too much on these forums.

 

[Sylow]

Wow! What happened here? An FSS thread which is not all hate and bile, but actually contains constructive feedback? A miracle has happened! So thanks to everybody here for now going this way!

So i also add a few things from my side. There was some "what would i have had instead", e.g. those with the probes, where i also think that it would've been much better than what we got. Nice idea, if i had the choice, i'd immediately switch to that. But that's a pipe dream, won't happen.

So rather what i would like (most of them not my ideas, several already mentioned before, but i still like to list them):

• More things to actually find. I am aware that this is a big deal, especially if some of it might even be hand-placed. But it would go for such a long way.
• Having some connection between FSS and normal cockpit view. The suggestion to have the wave scan displayed in the regular cockpit would be a nice start.
• In FSS mode have some info on what is happening around you. Probably the easiest way: display the ships radar while in FSS mode.
• Allow us to use the FSS while the ship is moving. Of course, targeting will be a bit harder, but it'd be a fair tradeoff.
• Implement an optional "snap to target" function. The FSS works fine when i use the mouse, but when using my HOTAS (which i still prefer, it "feels" more uthentic) it sometimes is a bit fiddly. What i would suggest is that if you bring the pointer close enough to targetable object (range might be set in ptions) and move the pointer slow enough (like below 10% joystick deflection), the pointe automatically selects the target. It would make target selection much easier when using a joystick.
• Possible: implement a "toggle" function. If you have several objects close to each other, you could press the button to toggle through them.
• Reduce the "blue hue" effect. The sparkling is a bit irritating at some time. At the same time, you could add some information by adjusting the color a bit. E.g. something of high mass could add a reddish tone to the blue color. While any object would add a tiny bit of green, so areas which contain many objects (which means they are much more likely to contain unusual stellar formations) would be green shaded on the FSS. (And yes, this is just a rough draft, a lot of improvement could be done, but you get the idea. )

That's just what comes to my mind right now. I very much hope that this thread stays constructive and that FD actually reads it and considers some of the ideas here.