HP Reverb G2 impressions in Elite Dangerous

[belch85]

Your biggest gripe was addressed in earlier versions even. Rift S, Vive Pro, Index, Quest 1, Quest 2, Reverb - all have clarity far surpassing the SDE-ridden blurry mess that was CV1 and OG Vive. It will be a night and day difference with either of these headsets.

As for black levels - industry almost unanimously dropped OLED screens. And the blacks are... not great. That said, they're not atrocious either. It's like an LCD display, it will be gray-ish. But it wasn't "inky black" in OG Vive either.

As for HTC, their stuff is usually overpriced and underspecced in my opinion (used OG Vive, now on Valve Index). I'm done buying from them, unless they bring a real revolution to the market. The announced Vive Pro 2 isn't that in my opinion.

Moving onto Reverb G2, the resolution is great, but the controllers are outdated and sub-par. If you're only playing Elite with your VR, go for the G2. If you play different games where motion control matters, you'd be better off with worse image quality and better all-round controllers. Quest 2 seems like a sensible compromise here, relatively cheap and more importantly standalone/portable. Meaning you can play native games like The Walking Dead Saints and Sinners while on a trip, not requiring a pc It can of course stream games from your PC, so you can play Elite on it, wirelessly(!) if you're a good quality wifi router (5GHz).

TL; DR: any current gen headset will blow away Rift CV1 in clarity, readability etc. If you're only playing ED / sims, go for Reverb G2. If you like playing roomscale games with motion controls, go for something else, preferably Quest 2 or Index if you're feeling fancy [but I have a hard time recommending Index over the Quest 2 - the latter is a much more versatile device].

You're a legend - thanks again for that response. Seems logical.

Chicken and the egg. If I had a Quest 2, I'd play more room-scale games with friends / on the road (but still a decent chunk of time in ED). If I had a G2, I would almost exclusively play in ED.

I have a decent WiFi system (Ubiquiti). I would have thought playing ED wirelessly would introduce unacceptable latency. Have you owned one and tested it? If it is acceptable then the Quest 2 is a seriously attractive option to get the "almost" best of both worlds.

 

[VR StarLightPL]

I have a decent WiFi system (Ubiquiti). I would have thought playing ED wirelessly would introduce unacceptable latency. Have you owned one and tested it? If it is acceptable then the Quest 2 is a seriously attractive option to get the "almost" best of both worlds.

The Quest 2 latency in ED in my opinion will be negligible. Why I know that? Well, I have played ED on GeForce now, on my smartphone, in Poland, using LTE mobile network, streamed from NVidia's servers somewhere in Europe, I think it was Germany? ED is by nature a very "laggy" game. You won't have any kind of a problem with that. People are streaming Half-Life: Alyx on recently rolled Airlink beta, which is Facebook's native pcvr streaming mode not requiring virtual desktop on the quest. Paradise Decay did a vid on that recently:

Source: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yWW0v98zoXs

and in the previous one he played from his car ;-)
Also the Quest latency monitoring adjusts the video (streaming) quality if needed, he talks about that in the vid.
Plus, people are playing in wireless VR since the quest1 and don't have much issues despite the occassional quality drop...

As for other headsets - I have the Valve Index, and it's great. It's comfortable, has great clarity and best in class fov from the ones I've written. It has laser tracking which is sub-millimeter accurate, doesn't have problems with controllers occlussion etc... However, the full kit costs an atrocious amount of money and it's wired (wireless nowhere in sight despite Gaben claiming wireless as a solved problem now). You still have to drill holes in the walls to install basestations. For that price you would have three Quests which can function without a pc... And Quest 2 has much bigger resolution although it's more complicated than simple numbers because of video compression). I'm impatiently waiting for my COVID shot (first dose today!) to complete, I will then borrow a Q2 from a friend and compare with the Index.

Also important caveat - Facebook Quest requires a good facebook account. If that's a deal breaker, I'd recommend the Index. IMHO you should steer clear from Rift S - it's already discontinued by FB. Best advice, but it would be a wallet breaker, would be Quest2 + G2 + Index ;-).

 

[[VR] Merkir]

Thanks so much for this extensive write up - really appreciate your time.

I'm currently running a CV1 with a 3080 and considering buying the G2 but I'm torn with some of the issues you've described (mainly the black levels and head tracking in swift-combat movements). So I'm struggling to make up my mind and don't really know what to ask, but I'm secretly hoping you just had a bad experience with one unit by chance and my luck is improved.

My biggest gripe with the CV1 is text-readability and resolution-clarity, both of which seem to be overcome with the G2. Would you agree with thate?

I just can't decide if it is worth the trade-off. Knowing what you know now about the current market and potential future HMD (like the Vive Pro 2) - do you have any thoughts to share?

To answer your main question, yes, text readability and resolution/clarity is definitely better in the G2 compared to the CV1. After you dial down the settings to obtain reasonable frame rates on the G2, my subjective unscientific "quality factor rating" is actually the same as another poster here when he/she said it's "about 50% better than the CV1". But that is completely separate from the black levels and colour which are definitely better on the CV1 (OLED vs LCD).

You stated the main dilemma in making the decision - the trade off - and it's purely a subjective decision. In my case, having had extensive use of the CV1, Pimax 5K+ and G2, I still use the CV1 as my main headset, especially for ED with its colour and black levels, and at 1.5 supersampling text is quite ok (I assume you're using a similar super sampling with your CV1?). If I played a lot of other non-space VR games I'd choose another headset like the G2, although as StarLight said, controllers/tracking of the G2 may be a little sub-par.

Aside: As I'm writing this I'm remembering just how incredibly good Lone Echo was using the CV1 - amazing. I wouldn't have wanted to use the G2 for that game despite its resolution.

Btw, I'm kicking myself that I didn't buy the Quest 1 when it released - an OLED headset with higher resolution than the CV1. It probably would have been my daily driver. I remember looking up second hand prices after I returned the G2 and the few I could find were close to A$2000. Perhaps they're becoming collector items, heh.

Edit: Just did a quick search on the original Quest and there are now plenty available at reasonable prices again, probably to do with them being discontinued? Think I might pick one up.

 

[belch85]

I notice a lot of people complaining about black-levels in modern HMDs due to LCD.

Every time I look at comparisons, the G2 seems to have somehow killed the competition with an LCD. Example:

Source: https://youtu.be/ny_OPsxHQmU?t=403

 

[[VR] Merkir]

I notice a lot of people complaining about black-levels in modern HMDs due to LCD.

Every time I look at comparisons, the G2 seems to have somehow killed the competition with an LCD. Example:

Source: https://youtu.be/ny_OPsxHQmU?t=403


View attachment 226120

Yes, but in the same video go to the comparison in Elite Dangerous and the Index appears to have better black levels. Go figure. These days, I'm very wary of reviews/comparison through-the-lens vids where you really don't know if the conditions are the same. For example a small amount of extra light filtering in behind the camera onto the lens may change the shot completely. Without seeing their setup and confirming they completely block external sources, I'll be taking most of these comparison vids with a grain of salt from now on, especially as I've been able to compare their reviews with my actual experience. Unfortunately, the only test that matters is with the headset sitting on your own head.

 

[belch85]

Unfortunately, the only test that matters is with the headset sitting on your own head.

How dare you have independant and objectively-verified thought. YouTube & commercial marketing request your immediate return to the sheep herd.

In all seriousness though, this conversation has been very helpful, thanks.

• The G2 seems very attractive for the clarity/resolution (and maybe the black levels?). Kinda hard to walk away from that knowing I'll be playing ED a lot.
• but (for me) the Quest 2 seems to win hands down in every other way. It's cheaper, I can throw my guests into Beat Sabre in the living room without lugging my whole desktop out there, I can still access my existing Oculus apps on PC when seated, better controllers than the G2, better sound, better mic, and less demanding on my hardware (which means a consistently higher framerate accross other games).

Tough decision but I think I'll keep researching and probably go with the Quest 2.

Although, HP has a no-questions-asked full-refund for 14-days. So I could test the G2 and return it for any reason.

 

[[VR] Merkir]

Good luck, CMDR. Either way, please come back and give your feedback on the one you choose.

Meanwhile, this discussion has got me looking at original Quest vs CV1 comparisons. It might be the last chance to get a higher resolution OLED headset, and my newer rig might even be able to run it at native resolution, unlike the G2 and similar.

 

[BigBANGtheory [VR]]

Loving those visuals on the HP RVB2, the only reason I opted for a Vive Pro 2 instead was I wanted better FoV, controllers and tracking. If your aiming at sims and you're ok with the FoV then the HP is a more sensible choice. I've used a Quest2 for a short demo (previous a CV1 rift) and for me the visuals weren't up to par mainly because I know I'll be using the VR experience in DCS and MS Flightsim where you need to read dials and HUD displays a lot.

Price is the only real downside to the HTC VP2 atm from what I can see.

The DecaGear HMD due end of this year looks like it could be winner, some unknowns though with that one.

 

[VR StarLightPL]

Don't trust any ttl videos, they aren't representative of the real thing. And Tyriel here somehow manages to shot a video in which the rift s which has the lowest resolution looks better than Index.

I've done ttl videos on my channel too, I tried a prosumer DSLR and a smartphone, somehow smartphone picture was more up to par with what the eye will see, but still not enough.

Aforementioned video:

Source: https://youtu.be/IEaWmJT9TfA

 

[VR StarLightPL]

Price is the only real downside to the HTC VP2 atm from what I can see.

Controllers are a factor too, they recommend buying Index Knuckles to go with the VP2. No progress since 2016 VR bludgeon design. But I openly dislike HTC so take me with a grain of salt. And if I learned something in this industry it is better to wait and see the released product than to preorder and be disappointed. Fov isn't specified if it's horizontal or diagonal, no info on vertical too. No info on clarity either. Caution advised.

 

[A D]

I have the HP Reverb G2 with a RTX 3080 graphics card. Very clear image and a good combo. Highly recommend to anyone thinking about replacing their headset. The set up of the G2 can be a bit tricky though. The following is a guide I put together which may help. Note, I'm not saying it's the only way, just the way I did it so I could run ED and non-Steam VR games with minimal fuss.

Downloading and installing the software (it's all free)

1. Make sure your Win10 OS is up to date - do a manual update to check this.
2. Download and install 'Steam' (if it is not already installed). Create a Steam account (if you don't already have one).
3. In Steam search for 'SteamVR'. Download the program and install it.
4. Still in Steam search for 'Steam Windows Mixed Reality for Steam VR". Download it and install it.
5. Then go to the Microsoft Store using the standard app' on your computer.
6. If you do not have a menu item in Win10 called 'Mixed Reality Portal' (you may have if your OS is up to date), then in the MS Store search for 'Mixed Reality Portal'. Download it from the Store and it will automatically install.
7. Then still in the Store search for 'Open XR Developer Tools for Windows Mixed Reality'. Download it from the Store and it will also automatically install.

Your done with downloading and may be wondering why all the software. The answer is Steam and SteamVR have a bad habit of stealing the show regardless of whether you are launching a Steam game or not. Also 'Open XR Developer Tools' uses the latest version of the runtime and exposes some settings you can use to make your VR experience better. I'll come back to this, but you need to get your G2 connected.

Connect and Set Up the G2

8. Set up your G2 so it fits and is ready to plug in.
9. You'll need 2 USB's on your computer - a USB A (3.0) and USB C. If you only have two USB A's you'll find a connector in the G2 box which will adapt a USB A to C.
10. Once you've hooked up the G2 to your computer you can power it on and open the Windows 'Mixed Reality Portal' software and go through the set up procedure. Pair the controllers and have a look around the Cliff House which is your virtual home in WMR.

Configuration

Now with the configuration. The G2 has a very max high resolution and if you try to run it at full res' your computer will probably complain and result in VR stutter, so we want to get to the point where you can launch ED easily, with high game settings and without melting your CPU or GPU and without stutter.

11. Open Steam and go to 'SteamVR' in your library. Right click on it and choose 'properties' and then 'Betas' and choose 'beta - SteamVR Beta Update'. (you can't manually update it, so it may do this later if you set the 'updates' to auto update).
12. Open 'SteamVR' and under the 'General" option set the resolution to 100% and turn off 'SteamVR Home'.
13. Open 'OpenXR Developer Tools for Windows Mixed Realty' and under 'Developer Settings' enable the 'Use latest preview of OpenXR runtime' and 'customised render scale'. Set the scale to 75% and 'motion reprojection' to 'automatic'. This last option works like warp in Oculus so the frame rate doesn't matter provided you get a smooth experience in ED. IMO It is better to take advantage of the high resolution the G2 provides by allowing reprojection.

You can fiddle around with the SteamVR resolution and OpenXR render scale later to get the best mix for you, but I have found that the above settings work well provided you turn down super sampling and HDR directly in the ED game options. These settings should also give you a nice near monitor quality image with your ED settings set pretty high.

Opening WMR and ED

Ok, close Steam, SteamVR and the WMR portal and restart your computer. When you have re-booted you can now try out ED. To do this:

14. Open the Windows 'Mixed Reality Portal' (not the Steam Windows Mixed Reality for Stream VR as this will open Steam and Steam VR which is a pain). If you've done everything correctly you should be able to put on the G2 and have a nice clear picture in the Cliff House.
15. Open the ED launcher and start ED in the normal way. What should happen is you will see a starburst in the G2 (which is very pretty) once ED opens and then be taken to the game. If you check the taskbar you will see that it has called the SteamVR runtime (not the whole Steam or SteamVR UI).

Don't forget to change SS and HDR in the ED options before going further. I set SS to '1' and HDR to '1' and let OpenXR do the scaling. If you are not happy with this just fiddle with the OpenXR render scale and ED settings until your happy. You don't need to adjust the SteamVR resolution (can if you want). Really you only need to reduce the scaling once in the pipeline and OpenXR is probably the best place to do it because its simple and will apply the G2 resolution that works best for you regardless of what game you happen to be playing.

Closing ED and WMR

Obviously you can close ED in the normal way and will be put back in the the SteamVR grid.

When you close the Windows 'Mixed Reality Portal' it will also appear to close the SteamVR runtime, but there is a bug (since about 2016) which results in an error when you next try to use SteamVR. The error is caused because in fact the SteamVR runtime processes are still running in the background even after you close WMR. The only work around I know of is to kill the processes manually. I use a .bat file which I call 'Kill SteamVR' with the following commands:

taskkill /F /FI "IMAGENAME eq VR*" /T
taskkill /F /FI "IMAGENAME eq Steam*" /T

Place those commands in a notepad file. Save it as 'all files' with the extension .bat and place a shortcut to the file on your desktop. Then after you close WMR you just need to click on it and you will see it kill all open SteamVR processes. That way your good to go next time you want to play a VR game and won't be left wondering why you are still in the Cliff House after you have started your game.

Good luck, hope it goes well.

 

[BigBANGtheory [VR]]

Controllers are a factor too, they recommend buying Index Knuckles to go with the VP2.

Oh yes for sure, the Index knuckles are the only real choice. Again an expensive option but at least Valve throw in a copy of HL Alyx, and they've made some minor revision changes to improve the knuckles. Was quite surprised that the base stations are still so expensive though I guess its a captive market for Steam VR and they can get away with it.

I got to play with an Oculus Rift S over the weekend and whilst I liked the experience I couldn't live with that screen door effect

 

[A D]

Oh yes for sure, the Index knuckles are the only real choice. Again an expensive option but at least Valve throw in a copy of HL Alyx, and they've made some minor revision changes to improve the knuckles. Was quite surprised that the base stations are still so expensive though I guess its a captive market for Steam VR and they can get away with it.

I got to play with an Oculus Rift S over the weekend and whilst I liked the experience I couldn't live with that screen door effect

The G2 has no discernible screen-door and I'm using a XBox controller for ED without any problems (my preference to the G2 "knuckles").

 

[belch85]

I have the HP Reverb G2 with a RTX 3080 graphics card. Very clear image and a good combo. Highly recommend to anyone thinking about replacing their headset. The set up of the G2 can be a bit tricky though. The following is a guide I put together which may help. Note, I'm not saying it's the only way, just the way I did it so I could run ED and non-Steam VR games with minimal fuss.

Downloading and installing the software (it's all free)

1. Make sure your Win10 OS is up to date - do a manual update to check this.
2. Download and install 'Steam' (if it is not already installed). Create a Steam account (if you don't already have one).
3. In Steam search for 'SteamVR'. Download the program and install it.
4. Still in Steam search for 'Steam Windows Mixed Reality for Steam VR". Download it and install it.
5. Then go to the Microsoft Store using the standard app' on your computer.
6. If you do not have a menu item in Win10 called 'Mixed Reality Portal' (you may have if your OS is up to date), then in the MS Store search for 'Mixed Reality Portal'. Download it from the Store and it will automatically install.
7. Then still in the Store search for 'Open XR Developer Tools for Windows Mixed Reality'. Download it from the Store and it will also automatically install.

Your done with downloading and may be wondering why all the software. The answer is Steam and SteamVR have a bad habit of stealing the show regardless of whether you are launching a Steam game or not. Also 'Open XR Developer Tools' uses the latest version of the runtime and exposes some settings you can use to make your VR experience better. I'll come back to this, but you need to get your G2 connected.

Connect and Set Up the G2

8. Set up your G2 so it fits and is ready to plug in.
9. You'll need 2 USB's on your computer - a USB A (3.0) and USB C. The RTX has these, but not sure about your graphics card. If you only have two USB A's you'll find a connector in the G2 box which will adapt a USB A to C.
10. Once you've hooked up the G2 to your computer you can power it on and open the Windows 'Mixed Reality Portal' software and go through the set up procedure. Pair the controllers and have a look around the Cliff House which is your virtual home in WMR.

Configuration

Now with the configuration. The G2 has a very max high resolution and if you try to run it at full res' your computer will probably complain and result in VR stutter, so we want to get to the point where you can launch ED easily, with high game settings and without melting your CPU or GPU and without stutter.

11. Open Steam and go to 'SteamVR' in your library. Right click on it and choose 'properties' and then 'Betas' and choose 'beta - SteamVR Beta Update'. (you can't manually update it, so it may do this later if you set the 'updates' to auto update).
12. Open 'SteamVR' and under the 'General" option set the resolution to 100% and turn off 'SteamVR Home'.
13. Open 'OpenXR Developer Tools for Windows Mixed Realty' and under 'Developer Settings' enable the 'Use latest preview of OpenXR runtime' and 'customised render scale'. Set the scale to 75% and 'motion reprojection' to 'automatic'. This last option works like warp in Oculus and from my point of view the frame rate doesn't matter provided you get a smooth experience in ED. Aiming for 90 FPS is simply unnecessary if the game runs smoothly. IMO It is better to get the high resolution the G2 provides (even at 75% of its max).

You can fiddle around with the SteamVR resolution and OpenXR render scale later to get the best mix for you, but I have found that the above settings work well provided you turn down super sampling and HDR directly in the ED game options. These settings should also give you a nice near monitor quality image with your ED settings set pretty high.

Opening WMR and ED

Ok, close Steam, SteamVR and the WMR portal and restart your computer. When you have re-booted you can now try out ED. To do this:

14. Open the Windows 'Mixed Reality Portal' (not the Steam Windows Mixed Reality for Stream VR as this will open Steam and Steam VR which is a pain). If you've done everything correctly you should be able to put on the G2 and have a nice clear picture in the Cliff House.
15. Open the ED launcher and start ED in the normal way. What should happen is you will see a starburst in the G2 (which is very pretty) once ED opens and then be taken to the game. If you check the taskbar you will see that it has called the SteamVR runtime (not the whole Steam or SteamVR UI).

Don't forget to change SS and HDR in the ED options before going further. I set SS to '1' and HDR to '1' and let OpenXR do the scaling. If you are not happy with this just fiddle with the OpenXR render scale and ED settings until your happy. You don't need to adjust the SteamVR resolution (can if you want). Really you only need to reduce the scaling once in the pipeline and OpenXR is probably the best place to do it because its simple and will apply the G2 resolution that works best for you regardless of what game you happen to be playing.

Closing ED and WMR

Obviously you can close ED in the normal way and will be put back in the the SteamVR grid.

When you close the Windows 'Mixed Reality Portal' it will also appear to close the SteamVR runtime, but there is a bug (since about 2016) which results in an error when you next try to use SteamVR. The error is caused because in fact the SteamVR runtime processes are still running in the background even after you close WMR. The only work around I know of is to kill the processes manually. I use a .bat file which I call 'Kill SteamVR' with the following commands:

taskkill /F /FI "IMAGENAME eq VR*" /T
taskkill /F /FI "IMAGENAME eq Steam*" /T

Place those commands in a notepad file. Save it as 'all files' with the extension .bat and place a shortcut to the file on your desktop. Then after you close WMR you just need to click on it and you will see it kill all open SteamVR processes. That way your good to go next time you want to play a VR game and won't be left wondering why you are still in the Cliff House after you have started your game.

Good luck, hope it goes well.

THANK you!

Just unboxing my G2 now, following your guide.

 

[VR StarLightPL]

THANK you!

Just unboxing my G2 now, following your guide.

Let us know your impressions after, how good is the tracking etc.

 

[belch85]

Let us know your impressions after, how good is the tracking etc.

4 hours of troubleshooting later, and I still haven't seen the G2 light up. The MS Store app "Mixed Reality Portal" refuses to run (it launches, shows the splash screen, then disappears). I've tried countless solutions, physical checks and I'm getting close to a format (which worked for another guy).

 

[VR StarLightPL]

4 hours of troubleshooting later, and I still haven't seen the G2 light up. The MS Store app "Mixed Reality Portal" refuses to run (it launches, shows the splash screen, then disappears). I've tried countless solutions, physical checks and I'm getting close to a format (which worked for another guy).

... and welcome to WMR

 

[A D]

4 hours of troubleshooting later, and I still haven't seen the G2 light up. The MS Store app "Mixed Reality Portal" refuses to run (it launches, shows the splash screen, then disappears). I've tried countless solutions, physical checks and I'm getting close to a format (which worked for another guy).

That's no good... Have you tried using the steam WMR portal instead. It works in the same way, just opens steam and steam vr as well which is a drag, but this will at least tell you whether the problem is with Windows wmr or maybe a usb connection. Sorry my guide didn't work for you.

 

[belch85]

I managed to get it working (after mucking about in regedit and powershell for hours, I finally resorted to an in-place Windows upgrade which fixed it). Issue seems to be unrelated to the G2 and purely with the WMR app.

IT LOOKS CLEAR - big wow, many impress. I don't care about black levels - the clarity is providing an amazing experience.

It still feels like a headset - I wish the FOV was wider. Pressing the headset against / closer to my face improves it, so I'm investigating options for a replacement face plate to get my eyes closer to the lenses.

A D - I followed your guide and things ran smooth - I forgot to check my SS in ED though (which I previously had set on 2). I noticed some framerate spikes in heavy areas. I'll try to tweak for performance later.

Quick question. From inside WMR, viewing the monitor, you launch ED from Steam and that auto-launches Steam VR. How do you then pin an application/screen inside ED? In Oculus you could pin and it would overlay no matter what you're doing. But with your workflow, whenever I hit the Windows key (on keyboard or controller) to get back to WMR home, it kills ED instantly and I have to re-launch.

 

[Dragsham]

Have the game running in a window.
Not fullscreen