Huge Multicannon - Do you wish to see an alternative to the current weapon?

Ahoy there,
i am looking a bit into the current huge MC,
while i very much enjoy the looks and sound,
i do not enjoy the firing pattern too much.

The ROF in particular is too low for my tastes,
so maybe we can have an alternative to the
shock cannon like firing pattern we now have.

Here is my suggestion:
- flavour of a huge gattling gun, with exemplary ROF around the 7/s mark
- heat spike while firing
- low ammo reserves that have a long reload
- changing the weapon from a constant barrage to a burst like firing pattern for passes

What do you guys think?
 
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The concept of the high ROF gun sounds cool, but given the rework effort required, and that some may like the current set up, would it not be better to introduce a whole new Gattling Gun category of weapon entirely, available (eventually) in all four sizes?

As to your specs, aren't the real ones continuously belt-fed from whole drums rather than sets of clips (or whatever they are called for higher-calibre cannons)? Use the heat spike as the limiting mechanism, where the user has to practice restraint manually lest the heat not only raise the whole ship's temperature but damage the gun much more in particular as well.
 
The concept of the high ROF gun sounds cool, but given the rework effort required, and that some may like the current set up, would it not be better to introduce a whole new Gattling Gun category of weapon entirely, available (eventually) in all four sizes?

As to your specs, aren't the real ones continuously belt-fed from whole drums rather than sets of clips (or whatever they are called for higher-calibre cannons)? Use the heat spike as the limiting mechanism, where the user has to practice restraint manually lest the heat not only raise the whole ship's temperature but damage the gun much more in particular as well.

That'd work aswell with a cool new mechanic damaging the gun when overheating.
 
Nah, I like it the way it is. While it doesn't keep the theme of a gatling gun, being an autocannon instead, I have no problems with it.
Also a gatling gun overheating is contrary to the very reason why multiple barrels were used in the first place, to stop the gun from overheating. It makes little sense to me.
 
Have you tried rapid fire grade 5 mods? Maybe that's closer what you are looking for? I'm not a big fan if multi cannons in general. I prefer normal cannons, despite the lackluster sound design around those weapons.
 
Have you tried rapid fire grade 5 mods? Maybe that's closer what you are looking for? I'm not a big fan if multi cannons in general. I prefer normal cannons, despite the lackluster sound design around those weapons.

Huge MCs have a refire rate of:
3.0/s fixed
3.4/s gimballed

The RF grade 5 doesn't significantly impact this.
The large MC has 6.7/s on the gimballed and can go up to 9.6/s,
so the use of RF mod ends with the large weapons.
(Legacy large gimballed MC at ROF of 11,0/s with autoloader is where the love is)
 
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I think huge MCs are fine.

If anything, I'd alter the smaller ones as rotary cannon in space are rather silly. You'd still get the benefit of a lower rate of barrel wear, but, as others have noted, the primary reason rotary cannon exist is for improving cooling, almost entirely via conduction to surrounding air, which is absent in space. Non-rotary autocannon would make more sense...fewer barrels could be made more durable and non-rotating ones would be easier to attach to a fluid cooling loop.
 
Ahoy there,
i am looking a bit into the current huge MC,
while i very much enjoy the looks and sound,
i do not enjoy the firing pattern too much.

The ROF in particular is too low for my tastes,
so maybe we can have an alternative to the
shock cannon like firing pattern we now have.

Here is my suggestion:
- flavour of a huge gattling gun, with exemplary ROF around the 7/s mark
- heat spike while firing
- low ammo reserves that have a long reload
- changing the weapon from a constant barrage to a burst like firing pattern for passes

What do you guys think?

At that point doesn't it just become a burst weapon similar to the fragment cannon? but longer range?
 
At that point doesn't it just become a burst weapon similar to the fragment cannon? but longer range?

It becomes the optimal weapon for combined arms,
a la space to ground, megaship raids and used close up
and carefully a great module shredder like the large MC.

The frag sprays too much for my taste, and the
proposed huge gatling would not have that big a burst capability.
It needs also significantly more time on target than frags.
 
Nah, I like it the way it is. While it doesn't keep the theme of a gatling gun, being an autocannon instead, I have no problems with it.
Also a gatling gun overheating is contrary to the very reason why multiple barrels were used in the first place, to stop the gun from overheating. It makes little sense to me.

I think huge MCs are fine.

If anything, I'd alter the smaller ones as rotary cannon in space are rather silly. You'd still get the benefit of a lower rate of barrel wear, but, as others have noted, the primary reason rotary cannon exist is for improving cooling, almost entirely via conduction to surrounding air, which is absent in space. Non-rotary autocannon would make more sense...fewer barrels could be made more durable and non-rotating ones would be easier to attach to a fluid cooling loop.

It isn't only about the cooling, the huge MC and huge beam laser show why it is preferable to have a single barrel or firing position a shot comes from.
Look at those and you see deviation per shot or cycle as the angle of the projectile or ray alternates.
This can be the difference between module snipe, hit or total miss.

Also gatling guns have style.
I can also imagine a huge plasma repeater being a plasma gatling, where accelerator coils inside rotate in a casing of cooling devices, launching the shot everytime from the same position to counter angle deviation.
 
If anything, I'd alter the smaller ones as rotary cannon in space are rather silly.

No, the concept actually makes the same amount of sense as it does in atmosphere, at least if you're going to bring a firearm into space to begin with.

You'd still get the benefit of a lower rate of barrel wear, but, as others have noted, the primary reason rotary cannon exist is for improving cooling, almost entirely via conduction to surrounding air

Gatling weapons being able to fire at a higher ROF without overheating isn't simply an issue of conducting heat to the surrounding air. It's primarily an issue of each barrel in a gatling weapon being used to fire a proportionally lower number of rounds. The reduction in barrel wear and the reduction in overheating are both directly related to the same issue of each barrel in a gatling weapon being used for only a fraction of the total overall ROF. The barrel wear is directly proportional to the heat generated from rounds travelling down the barrel which is in turn directly proportional to the number of rounds fired through that barrel over a given period of time.

which is absent in space.

The heat generated from the operation of a firearm is due to the chemical energy produced by the propellant charge, which is in turn converted to kinetic energy when the bullet accelerates down the barrel, and a proportion of this is in turn converted to thermal energy when the bullet moves down the barrel and heats the metal. As I described above, this would still apply equally to barrels of a gatling weapon operating in a vacuum which would each see a proportionally lower ROF due to the lower individual ROF per barrel.

Non-rotary autocannon would make more sense...

If you want to maximize the rate of fire and were limited primarily by the weapon overheating then a gatling autocannon would make the most sense.

fewer barrels could be made more durable

Which is still less effective than simply using a gatling design.

and non-rotating ones would be easier to attach to a fluid cooling loop.

Although some liquid-cooled autocannons do exist, i.e., the water-cooled 2A7 23 mm autocannons on the ZSU-23-4, a liquid-cooled system is comparatively more complex than simply using a gatling design. When applied specifically to combat in space there would also be the added challenge of designing an effective cooling loop that can operate properly in a wide range of environmental temperatures (i.e., deep space vs. combat near a star) as well as the high g-forces experienced by a rapidly maneuvering spacecraft capable of up to 10 g's of acceleration (given that the liquid coolant will experience those g-forces as well).

There are also several benefits of an externally-powered gatling design in terms of reliability since the action will continue to cycle as long as the gatling mechanism has external power, which means the weapon will continue to operate reliably despite misfires as the misfired round will simply be ejected. In comparison a single-barrel autocannon would be much more limited by a misfire, which would prevent the action from cycling, and it would still not be able to achieve a comparable rate of fire to a gatling weapon.

These issues are presumably why the Expanse, which probably features the most realistic depictions of sci-fi combat using real-world weapons, uses gatling autocannons as defensive weapons to achieve a high ROF against small targets and for point defence against torpedoes. They also look very similar in design to what we currently have in Elite in terms of being a compact, self-contained turret design:

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A huge shock cannon would be nice, although it (along with current shock cannons) has to have more ammunition to be viable alternative to multicannons.

As for Gatling - God please no. Unlike real Gatlings, FD's Gatlings have to spin up before firing.
 
As for Gatling - God please no. Unlike real Gatlings, FD's Gatlings have to spin up before firing.

I've always found this extremely annoying as a gatling weapon should fire immediately upon pulling the trigger even if it takes time to spin-up to full ROF. Unless the weapon's ammunition feed is empty the barrels should not be spinning and cycling the action without the weapon firing. The smaller gatling multicannons have proportionally shorter spin-up times, which makes sense given the lighter barrel assembly will take less time to reach full ROF, but it has always bothered me that the devs didn't do enough research to properly understand how a gatling weapon functions. At least the reciprocating quad-autocannon design of the class 4 multicannon has zero spin-up time which makes it particularly effective when using multicannons with incendiary rounds as a primary weapon on the Corvette.
 
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I've always found this extremely annoying as a gatling weapon should fire immediately upon pulling the trigger even if it takes time to spin-up to full ROF. Unless the weapon's ammunition feed is empty the barrels should not be spinning and cycling the action without the weapon firing. The smaller gatling multicannons have proportionally shorter spin-up times, which makes sense given the lighter barrel assembly will take less time to reach full ROF, but it has always bothered me that the devs didn't do enough research to properly understand how a gatling weapon functions. At least the reciprocating quad-autocannon design of the class 4 multicannon has zero spin-up time which makes it particularly effective when using multicannons with incendiary rounds as a primary weapon on the Corvette.

That's exactly why I hate C3 MCs. Their spin-up time is absolutely atrocious - you have to push and hold the trigger before you get your enemy in sights, if you want to do advertised damage.

Never had much use for incendiary rounds since 2.2.03 nerf. Although I fly exclusively in solo\Mobius, so maybe they still have some uses in PVP.
Now, for corrosives they really shine, especially on ships with a single huge slot. You can do single debuff shots and pick your target with other weapons. For Vette, I prefer double autoloader - which basically means no reloads at all.
 
That's exactly why I hate C3 MCs. Their spin-up time is absolutely atrocious - you have to push and hold the trigger before you get your enemy in sights, if you want to do advertised damage.

Never had much use for incendiary rounds since 2.2.03 nerf. Although I fly exclusively in solo\Mobius, so maybe they still have some uses in PVP.
Now, for corrosives they really shine, especially on ships with a single huge slot. You can do single debuff shots and pick your target with other weapons. For Vette, I prefer double autoloader - which basically means no reloads at all.

Huge MCs are bonkers. The reason Miniguns on Aerial vehicles (Helos and Planes) have such a ridiculously high ROF (2000 - 6000 rounds per minute <=> 33 - 100 rounds per second), and virtually no spinup time, is because the kind of engagements aircraft get involved with usually have very small windows of opportunity to hit the target (often less than 2-3s), and you want to be able to get as many shots fired at the target as possible during that window to maximize hitting it - this guy explains it better: [video=youtube;rIlwHT4IdRc]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rIlwHT4IdRc[/video]

The MC implementation in ED is so bad it hurts. They should just call them space muskets, because that's how slow they are compared to 20th century Miniguns.

Edit: forgot to add that real Miniguns usually require no in-flight reloading as they use a single continuous belt (it's also impossible to reload them inflight, except maybe for helo-cabin-mounted guns shot from the open door, but even then I'm not sure how feasible it is to reload a belt-fed gun with all the shaking and trepidation you experience in a Huey). Not sure how MCs in ED operate internally to even allow for the possibility of reloading lmao.
 
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Huge MCs are bonkers. The reason Miniguns on Aerial vehicles (Helos and Planes) have such a ridiculously high ROF (2000 - 6000 rounds per minute <=> 33 - 100 rounds per second), and virtually no spinup time, is because the kind of engagements aircraft get involved with usually have very small windows of opportunity to hit the target (often less than 2-3s), and you want to be able to get as many shots fired at the target as possible during that window to maximize hitting it - this guy explains it better:

The MC implementation in ED is so bad it hurts. They should just call them space muskets, because that's how slow they are compared to 20th century Miniguns.

Edit: forgot to add that real Miniguns usually require no in-flight reloading as they use a single continuous belt (it's also impossible to reload them inflight, except maybe for helo-cabin-mounted guns shot from the open door, but even then I'm not sure how feasible it is to reload a belt-fed gun with all the shaking and trepidation you experience in a Huey). Not sure how MCs in ED operate internally to even allow for the possibility of reloading lmao.

I thought they used a similar principle to the old snail magazines to feed the rounds into the flexible feed tubes and the whole kit and kaboodle was swapped on reloading, I didn't realise current kit was still using belts I will have to look for the links coming off as well as the brass next time I see one.
 
I thought they used a similar principle to the old snail magazines to feed the rounds into the flexible feed tubes and the whole kit and kaboodle was swapped on reloading, I didn't realise current kit was still using belts I will have to look for the links coming off as well as the brass next time I see one.

Gatling autocannons on most military aircraft use double-ended feed systems and don't actually eject the casings. This is done both in order to maintain weight distribution and to prevent foreign object damage from ejected casings. In addition to not ejecting casings the feed systems in modern gatling autocannons are often linkless, for example, the M61A1 Vulcan and GAU-8 Avenger both use linkless systems while the older linked ammunition feed on the original M61 Vulcan was more prone to jamming.

If you take a look at the Elite rotary multicannons when they are firing you'll notice two features: first, there are no ejected casings, and second, the weapon is obviously externally powered since the barrels will still continue to spin-up and rotate even after you run out of ammunition. Presumably Elite rotary multicannons also use a double-ended feed system which would return spent casings (or misfired rounds) into the magazine for the same reasons. Alternatively, Elite multicannons could fire caseless ammunition so there is no casing to eject although I suspect it would be more likely to use a double-ended feed system.

Regardless of whether Elite weapons use a double-ended feed system or caseless ammunition there should be no reason to limit the design to carrying a 90 round belt that has to be frequently reloaded instead of a continuous ammunition feed that had all rounds in the magazine continuously available. Modern gatling weapons can carry magazine feeds that provide over a thousand rounds of continuous fire so there's no reason for Elite multicannons to be so ridiculously limited and constantly reloading smaller ammunition belts. Again, much like the long spin-up delay before firing it's obvious that the Elite devs didn't do proper research to determine what modern weapons are currently capable of and have simply added nonsensical limitations like ridiculously long spin-up times before firing and ridiculously small ammunition belts for "game balance" instead of implementing realistic weapon features. It's really rather immersion-destroying for anyone familiar with how actual firearms work.
 
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Take the shells from the Small Frag Cannon. Put them in the Huge multicannon.

Seriously though, if they just fixed the 3C multicannon, everything would be great. I don't care if they keep the spin-up time, but it should fire the moment you pull the trigger and then continue to fire with a decreasing delay between shots until reaching it's maximum ROF after a moment or two.
 
...The MC implementation in ED is so bad it hurts. They should just call them space muskets...
Doesn't the name multi-cannons imply this?

I think there'd gameplay balance problems with a high ROF mini-gun type weapon - you'd be able to inflict "too much" damage too quickly (if you actually hit) that the DPS would need to be reduced but equally the high ROF would (probably) mean lots of missed shots so the DPS would need to be increased to make it effective (and so on) ... ?

Anyway AIUI mini-guns are mostly used against slow-moving ground targets rather than air-to-air.
 
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