Hull repair drones poll

[Maitolee]

Hi all.

I've being thinking on suggesting drone hull repairing, then I did a research to see that it's been talked about for one-two years already. I'm about to expose my idea but first I'd like to know why do you think Frontier hasn't implemented that feature yet.

Do you think it would change that much the game? At least in a wrong way?

My suggestion for hull repairing:

-In station: actual way, instant repair, no changes on that. Probably main repairing way for (non-combat) Bubble users.

-Autonomous: either on space or planetary surface. For now with repair drones and ship stopped. Not instant but fast, maybe 30% repair in 10s: (MAYBE NOPE: see edit below) not viable in combat but not tedious outside it. Handy between combats (as ammo synthesis, so you don't need to visit a station) and obviously explorer's oriented feature. Probably iron,etc materials required to synthesis "steel plates" or whatever name you like for "repairing ammo" (maybe other materials to repair a breached cockpit canopy?). Also, you could target a wing mate and send your drones to repair it's ship's hull, like a healer rol (similar to actual mothership role with extra fuel tank and transferer limpets for escort fighters).

Future proof feature: when space legs are ingame (like in real 3303) it could manually be done, so drones would not be needed (and a module or drone storage could be saved).

What do you think?


EDIT: There seems to be consensus that repairing time should be longer, and that new repairing gameplay could be added to SRV, SLF and even EVA in the future (rather than drones usage). Also it is clear that it should be limited to non-combat situations, with other requirements than time consuming like thrusters and shields shut down, process stopped if hit or attacked, and maybe landing required.

Repairing time: maybe somewhere between 1 and 10 minutes depending on "repair module" class and rating, and ship size/armour stat (repair module being actual AMFU, or new module, or SRV repairing capacity, etc).
To drone or not to drone: I would not discard it yet (I can't stop thinking about R2D2 on Amidala's ship). It could be an additional option in case you don't plan to SRV on planet or don't have room for a SLF in your small ship. Repair rate could be tied to number of drones working at the same time.

Besides from that, any method should allow to repair other ships (Repair Rats?). Just think on CG "coop-repair that megaship/station" along with CG "protect massive repair operation". Maybe even repair missions on stations for every "destroy/attack that ship/plant/installation" mission. Could even in the future repair mechanics be developped into "building mechanics"? CG "build that skeleton structure of station into an actual station with those materials brought from that other CG"? Or building a "premade tiny warehouse recipe" in some hidden place on planet or asteroid for personal/minor faction purpose.

Anyway, I'm glad to see it's been well received.



EDIT 2: Some downsides could be added as:

-repair involves ship mass increase (until next in-station repair). Explorer's should still fly safe and balance repair-jump range. Other stats than ship mass could be involved (maneuverability, ...).
-repair capability maybe not up to 100% but limited.
-repair capability limit also tied to number or repairs: first up to 80%, second repair up to 50%, ...

Maybe think of it as "handmade repair" vs "in-station professional repair".

 

[Be4st]

Erm... No! Elite is meant to be Dangerous. Where's the danger if you are on the other side of the galaxy and can simply repair your damage and denying yourself membership to the 1% club? What I wouldn't be apposed to is an engineer upgrade like the shield regeneration laser, but for armour.

 

[StiTch]

I'd consider ED nigh on dead if hull repairs made it to game.

May as well just prevent all death ever.

 

[Truesilver]

Not instant but fast, maybe 30% repair in 10s: not viable in combat but not tedious outside it.

This is the bit I don't get, I'm afraid - if we're talking about a max-spec PvP hull tank or hybrid combat ship, TTK in a 1v1 is often around 15 minutes, and repairing 30% of hull in 10 seconds is basically restoring what could be a full 5 minutes' worth of damage in 10 seconds.

300 seconds of damage restored in 10 seconds.

That isn't just viable in combat, it would make combat infinite. The fact that you have to stop dead to do it doesn't really matter, with g5 dirty drives and MRP's you could easily clear range at the outset and then tank any trivial module hits sustained in the few seconds of taking fire.

I'm not saying the idea should be canned therefore, just that the figures would need adjusting tremendously to stop this equalling endless regen.

 

[Maitolee]

Erm... No! Elite is meant to be Dangerous. Where's the danger if you are on the other side of the galaxy and can simply repair your damage and denying yourself membership to the 1% club? What I wouldn't be apposed to is an engineer upgrade like the shield regeneration laser, but for armour.

A laser that repairs the hull... but not drones? Also, you can already repair modules. Danger may come from actual threat, but if you get to survive you could repair that hull. Maybe with limitations: not up to 100%, or each repair less effective (think of a handmade repair not as good as professional station repair).

I can only think of a balance/design decision, as for an explorer it would actually make sense.

I'd consider ED nigh on dead if hull repairs made it to game.

May as well just prevent all death ever.

In ED you die pretty much in a moment, mostly in combat. It would no way prevent that. Light ship crash for an explorer could be somewhat repaired but "serious structural damage" not until visiting a station, maybe.

 

[Micha]

Others have bandied about the idea of needing an SRV or SLF to repair ship hull. Possibly even a "special" exploration/maintenance version of same which has reduced or no weaponry in exchange for welding tools etc.

This approach would mean it'd be all but useless in combat (as opposed to your idea of having drones, this means you'd also have to deploy another vehicle).

Not so sure about automated repair drones, but fully on-board with using a deployed vehicle for repair.

As for engineered "repair lasers" - that absolutely would not get my vote as that would be applicable in a fight situation. And is far too much magic (just as the shield-boost lasers are IMHO).

 

[Maitolee]

This is the bit I don't get, I'm afraid - if we're talking about a max-spec PvP hull tank or hybrid combat ship, TTK in a 1v1 is often around 15 minutes, and repairing 30% of hull in 10 seconds is basically restoring what could be a full 5 minutes' worth of damage in 10 seconds.

300 seconds of damage restored in 10 seconds.

That isn't just viable in combat, it would make combat infinite. The fact that you have to stop dead to do it doesn't really matter, with g5 dirty drives and MRP's you could easily clear range at the outset and then tank any trivial module hits sustained in the few seconds of taking fire.

I'm not saying the idea should be canned therefore, just that the figures would need adjusting tremendously to stop this equalling endless regen.

Well maybe more time consuming, or shutting down some systems (shields of course) so it would be extremely risky to do while in combat.

 

[Sylow]

This is the bit I don't get, I'm afraid - if we're talking about a max-spec PvP hull tank or hybrid combat ship, TTK in a 1v1 is often around 15 minutes, and repairing 30% of hull in 10 seconds is basically restoring what could be a full 5 minutes' worth of damage in 10 seconds.

300 seconds of damage restored in 10 seconds.

That isn't just viable in combat, it would make combat infinite. The fact that you have to stop dead to do it doesn't really matter, with g5 dirty drives and MRP's you could easily clear range at the outset and then tank any trivial module hits sustained in the few seconds of taking fire.

I'm not saying the idea should be canned therefore, just that the figures would need adjusting tremendously to stop this equalling endless regen.

.
Make it require 30 to 60 seconds (perhaps even randomize this) and require the ship to be stationary. Additionally make it switch off about anything except life support. Finetuning might still be required, but it should address this elephant in the room.
.

 

[Be4st]

...shutting down some systems (shields of course) so it would be extremely risky to do while in combat.

Not really. You can get some pretty beastly armour tanks now that HRP and MRP's are in the game. Micha had an idea I would be ok with. Have a dedicated repair SRV, that way, explorer's can repair and its not going to interfere with combat. Downside is, that and explorer is now going to have to carry 2 SRV's which really weighs you down. I'm not that keen on a SLF taking the role though as that can be abused in PvP.

 

[Maitolee]

Others have bandied about the idea of needing an SRV or SLF to repair ship hull. Possibly even a "special" exploration/maintenance version of same which has reduced or no weaponry in exchange for welding tools etc.

This approach would mean it'd be all but useless in combat (as opposed to your idea of having drones, this means you'd also have to deploy another vehicle).

Not so sure about automated repair drones, but fully on-board with using a deployed vehicle for repair.

As for engineered "repair lasers" - that absolutely would not get my vote as that would be applicable in a fight situation. And is far too much magic (just as the shield-boost lasers are IMHO).

Vehicle or space floating legs could be really nice but drones would be way easier to get ingame right now, that was the idea.

- - - Updated - - -

...Micha had an idea I would be ok with. Have a dedicated repair SRV, that way, explorer's can repair and its not going to interfere with combat.

Well, I see your point. If there is a way to easily use actual SRV to also repair the hull I'm OK with it.

 

[pippo]

Hull repair drones? nope.
Hull repair while EVA? yes.

One still dreaming

 

[IndigoWyrd]

Here's a novel thought... bare with me here...

What if, instead of some manner of repair drone/limpet/gimmick, we can repair our hulls, but it requires landing our ships, going out in an SRV, synthesizing a "Repair Material", which is then turned into an SRV cargo item.
Now, with this item in your SRV's hold (or two if you know you're going to need heavy repairs), you then aim your SRV's turret, refitted with a Hull Repair Turret, available at your local station's Outfitting, and actually make repairs yourself?

The act of engaging in manual repairs like this would and should be slow process, after all, you are rather "winging it", in the field, without the ideal tools. Even 1% repair per second would be reasonable (a little over a minute and a half to go from 1% to 100%), and that Repair Material's condition is deteriorated as you repair, dropping in condition % as you make your repairs. And to keep this from being a be-all, end-all of ship repairs, each "Repair Material" should not provide more than 10% repairs - that's 20% for a full SRV-load (Assuming Top-Grade synthesis - 3% for basic, 5% for intermediate, 10% for advanced).

What would these be synthesized from?

Basic - Salvaged Alloys
Intermediate - Precipitated Alloys and Tungsten
Advanced - Proto Light Alloys, Tungsten and Shield Emitters

This method would negate use in combat, be just a little painful over flying to a station, but also be a good bit more realistic.

It also leaves one rather vulnerable to the murder-kiddies, as you do have to land and exit your ship - leaving it in a vulnerable position. And I'd add to this the stipulation that any Shield Generators would need to be shut down - as SRV fire - even your own SRV fire, will hit your ship's shields if they are active.

 

[Be4st]

What if, instead of some manner of repair drone/limpet/gimmick

You just reminded me... Didn't Sandro say on the 2.3 stream that repair limpets were coming out in 2.3?

 

[Maitolee]

Here's a novel thought... bare with me here...

What if, instead of some manner of repair drone/limpet/gimmick, we can repair our hulls, but it requires landing our ships, going out in an SRV, synthesizing a "Repair Material", which is then turned into an SRV cargo item.
Now, with this item in your SRV's hold (or two if you know you're going to need heavy repairs), you then aim your SRV's turret, refitted with a Hull Repair Turret, available at your local station's Outfitting, and actually make repairs yourself?

The act of engaging in manual repairs like this would and should be slow process, after all, you are rather "winging it", in the field, without the ideal tools. Even 1% repair per second would be reasonable (a little over a minute and a half to go from 1% to 100%), and that Repair Material's condition is deteriorated as you repair, dropping in condition % as you make your repairs. And to keep this from being a be-all, end-all of ship repairs, each "Repair Material" should not provide more than 10% repairs - that's 20% for a full SRV-load (Assuming Top-Grade synthesis - 3% for basic, 5% for intermediate, 10% for advanced).

What would these be synthesized from?

Basic - Salvaged Alloys
Intermediate - Precipitated Alloys and Tungsten
Advanced - Proto Light Alloys, Tungsten and Shield Emitters

This method would negate use in combat, be just a little painful over flying to a station, but also be a good bit more realistic.

It also leaves one rather vulnerable to the murder-kiddies, as you do have to land and exit your ship - leaving it in a vulnerable position. And I'd add to this the stipulation that any Shield Generators would need to be shut down - as SRV fire - even your own SRV fire, will hit your ship's shields if they are active.

I'm totally OK with that, in fact I see this as desirable as space legging. I would love that gameplay. I suggested drones and fast repairing as there are many players that refuse time consuming mechanics (like waiting for fuel scooping, accelerating while SC, waiting for ship/module arrival to station, etc). Also drones would work outside a planet, so no need for SRV hangar. Any way it should be balanced to not be viable in combat.

 

[h347h]

I'd rather have a SLF where you or your hired pilots go out and repair damage to your hull, which shows up on your hull. Like the damage decals and Anaconda damage model. That way you get a sense you are repairing it. Also add in that you can't repair back to 100% perhaps cap it at 80% or something.

That could add in some verisimilitude of not having proper equipment to do it all and it is just temporary repairs.

- - - Updated - - -

You just reminded me... Didn't Sandro say on the 2.3 stream that repair limpets were coming out in 2.3?

No, but that they liked the idea.

 

[Saxon Kili]

A hull repair drone would be very useful.

My vision would be that it launches from a module slot (why can't anything be externally attached to a ship?). You have to turn off your shields to allow it to EVA and repair the hull, somewhat negating repair during combat. But if your shields were down anyway, you could still use the drone to repair during combat. But the drone would be targetable. It would also be really slow, like repairing damage at 1% every second. Perhaps the module rating would determine repair speed. A complimentary drone jammer module could be used to remotely defeat the repair drone too.

The hull repair drone could also be a one-time-use, ammo dependent module. One in-space repair is all you get then you need to reload it at a station.

I see floating ship pieces all the time, especially after I blow one up. Also canisters of whatever, floating around. The repair drone could harvest these items or you could cargo scoop them so the drone could fashion makeshift patches. A-rated repair drones would have the best tools available, providing a near perfect repair, up to 90% (depending on available materials) while C-rated may only get you up to 50% (just an example).

The repair drone probably should be not be a perfect substitute for a full station repair.

The repair drone could be really terrible at navigation too. Extremely limited thrusters or maybe just a magnetic ability to stick to the ship during repair. If someone shot or rammed the drone off your ship, then you would need to find it and hook up to it again. It's transponder would be easily damaged making it impossible to locate with sensors. Antenna snaps right off. But you could find it visually, maybe.

If it magnetically attached itself to your ship then pulling a few Gs would shake it right off your ship. You could have the ability to shut off the locator transponder so enemies wont be as attracted to it... but if you lost it off the ship, you'd probably never find it again. And still, it would be targetable at a certain distance even without an active transponder.

How about a repair NPC spaceship? You can call for one remotely. It might be available or might not. Chances are high there would be a delay in it arriving. It would charge a crazy fee. I see mobile repair vans on the RL highways now. It's not really 'that' farfetched.

Repair drone ought to be available for most ships Viper and bigger. We also need a roach coach in the RES.

 

[Be4st]

No, but that they liked the idea.

No. Just found it now. Someone asked

When are repair limpets coming? I want to refuel and repair my helpless commanders

Sandro replied

I hope they're cominnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnng soon. But you didn't hear it from me. Okay?...

https://youtu.be/McJgSVJQGG8?t=8584 2hr 23m 4s if it doesn't go directly to it with the link.

 

[Maitolee]

@Saxon Kili

Don't get me wrong, that's the way of implementing features/mechanics I would dream (that's it, the way I thought when I started playing ED). But seeing how Frontier adds new gameplay (slow and superficially) I proposed easy working drones in a way of staying pragmatic (so it can be added ""soon"").

 

[Micha]

What if, instead of some manner of repair drone/limpet/gimmick, we can repair our hulls, but it requires landing our ships, going out in an SRV, synthesizing a "Repair Material", which is then turned into an SRV cargo item.

...

What would these be synthesized from?

Basic - Salvaged Alloys
Intermediate - Precipitated Alloys and Tungsten
Advanced - Proto Light Alloys, Tungsten and Shield Emitters

Core idea: yeah, a slightly more fleshed out version of what has been discussed before. Turning the synth into a cargo item is the novel idea here but not really sure what it adds (whether you synth directly or into a cargo-item), still no qualms with it.


But as for the source materials? Absolutely NO! Having to collect 50 iron, or some rares, no worries, but it needs to be Mats which can be found throughout the galaxy, otherwise it's totally useless for explorers. Your proposed items can only be found in the Bubble.

Having a cap on the repair is also ok by me, but then why aren't the AFMU's capped as well? Repairing hull is significantly easier than repairing complex machinery and electronics..

 

[Wedgetail]

Make it a massive power drain, after all fabricating and/or re-welding up to a couple hundred tonnes of hull plating is a fairly intensive process.

This way you'd have to switch off almost all your other modules to make it work (maybe keep life support but that's it),

In order to stop people downsizing in order to keep more systems online, limit by size/class, so, say a class 2 unit could repair 1.5t per second, up to 45t, scaling up to a class 8 which could do up to 1100 tones at 40t per second

something like a class 2 hull repair drone could fix an adder (at 35t hull mass) from 1 to 100%, but for an anaconda (at 400t hull mass) a class 2 would only be able to repair to 10% before being exhausted