General / Off-Topic Hungary Calls EU Referendum on EU's Mandatory Migrant Quotas

[Cosmo]

EU DOMINOES: Now Hungary calls EU referendum - Hungarian president sets date for vote

HUNGARY is set to hold a referendum on the European Union's mandatory migrant quotas.

In the wake of the UK's Brexit vote and the decision to leave the European Union (EU), the Hungarian President, Janos Ader, has ordered a nationwide referendum on October 2.

The Hungarian people will be asked whether they want to accept any future European Union quota system for resettling migrants.

The question will be: "Do you want the European Union to be entitled to prescribe the mandatory settlement of non-Hungarian citizens in Hungary without the consent of parliament?"

The Hungarian Prime Minister Viktor Orban has fiercely opposed the EU's plans to relocate 160,000 migrants around the bloc by using mandatory quotas, but the scheme was approved by a majority of members.

Mr Orban has said that the vote will give people a chance to stand up for Hungary's sovereignty.

The Hungarian Minister of Foreign Affairs and Trade, Peter Sziijarto, said in a radio interview yesterday that Brussels must be stopped.

He said: "Brussels must be stopped, we must put an end to the violent immigration policy that is contrary to the will of the European people.

[up]

 

[verminstar]

I hope they make the right decision...seems like the UK is leading the way forward by being the first, but hopefully not the last. Seeing that france has some fairly serious issues too with their labor laws which their government is trying to force through despite what their own people want. Strange that the mainstream media are seemingly playing it down even after police used water cannon to break up crowds who were demonstrating against the changes...their own government even went and tried to make the act of protesting at all illegal, but they weren't able to push that one through.

The bloc is beginning to show a few cracks it would appear. Respect to their prime minister who is standing up for his people ^^

 

[Minonian]

Yes we do, and the reason is twofold.
For starter let me clarify something we don't say no to the refugees or immigrants, we say no to let them enforced upon us. And unlike the rumors says we did not want to leave the EU.

At first EU can't tell us, whom and how many we must accept them in our home. That's our part, thats must be our decision and responsibility to say how much, and who we can take in.

At second, after they are accepted in the EU they have the same freedom of movement what we EU citizens have, what in essence means they cannot be told where to live, they cannot be forcefully immigrated to one country or another, by some stupid quote. And this is their part.

 

[Sunleader]

Yes we do, and the reason is twofold.
For starter let me clarify something we don't say no to the refugees or immigrants, we say no to let them enforced upon us. And unlike the rumors says we did not want to leave the EU.

At first EU can't tell us, whom and how many we must accept them in our home. That's our part, thats must be our decision and responsibility to say how much, and who we can take in.

At second, after they are accepted in the EU they have the same freedom of movement what we EU citizens have, what in essence means they cannot be told where to live, they cannot be forcefully immigrated to one country or another, by some stupid quote. And this is their part.

Its Fun how People want to go with their Majority of People against the Majority of Europe *gg*
Very Democratic. I think I..ll set up a Referendum here in my Room and Decide that Victor Orban should Resign.

It was Won by 100% Voters in Favor of Victor Orban Resigning Pls follow the Democratic Will xD



Ok ok. More Seriously.
The EU Immigration Quota pretty much Says that each Country in the EU should Support the Countries in the EU Currently Hit by the Immigration Crisis.
This can be done by either Paying a Fine which will then be used to Support these Refugees living in another EU Country.
Or by taking in Refugees thus putting away some Pressure of the Hit EU Countries.




Edit:
Also just to add this.
http://openeurope.org.uk/today/blog...l-refugees-acquire-full-free-movement-rights/

Sorry but nope that is entirely Wrong.

Refugees are Entitled to Free Movement within the Member State which Accepted the Refugee under Human Rights Conditions. (As an sidenote wether or not this Refugee is Accepted is up to each Member State to decide meaning that any Refugees send to Hungary for example could be Confined to a Camp until the War in Syria is over or until they have fullfilled the Requirements set by the Hungarion Government to Attain the Status of being Accepted)

However. Refugees even if they accepted lets say in Germany for example. ARE NOT Allowed to move into other EU Countries.
To Obtain the Free Movement of an European Citizen well you would need to become an European Citizen.
In Case of Germany for example the Refugee would need to Attain German Citizenship. Which would mean several Years of Integration including a German Language Course etc etc.
Just being Accepted as an Refugee does NOT give you the right to for example Resettle to Hungary. The Refugee if he tried would be an Illegal Immigrant and if catched by Hungarion Police would be Send back to Germany and might even risk losing Refugee Status in Germany thanks to this Action which might Result in him being Deported.


Just to have that one Set Clear.






As an Sidenote.
I wonder how this Topic is related to Dominoe.
Hungary is not thinking about Leaving the Union. Its merely holding a Vote on wether they want to Accept the EU Decision on Migration Quotas.
Which would mean if they Reject it and the Government Rejects it they would simply Pay the Fine and be over with it.

 

[Minonian]

The fine cost is equals about 10 upper end middle class car, per person... This can't be serious! Edit; I think not even England, which is one of the richest country, can afford himself to pay this much, And Hungary are brought back from the verge of total economical collapse. For Christ sake! No one can afford himself to pay the cost of a smaller luxury home, per capita especially if we talking about 10 and 100 thousands!

Furthermore, how you want to enforce someone to stick with a country where they don't want to go? They are free persons you know?

Plus, you speaking about refugees. that's another question than immigration, an entirely different matte both by dealing with it, and in long term effects. We got an refugee crisis, to talk about immigration, is nonsense. Refugees are not immigrants, and whomever entered during this mess to the EU are in principle is refugee from a war torn country, but acting as an immigrant, and dealt by the same manner.

Seriously?
What the hell???

 

[Sunleader]

The fine cost is equals about 10 upper end middle class car, per person... This can't be serious! Edit; I think not even England, which is one of the richest country, can afford himself to pay this much, And Hungary are brought back from the verge of total economical collapse. For Christ sake! No one can afford himself to pay the cost of a smaller luxury home, per capita especially if we talking about 10 and 100 thousands!

Furthermore, how you want to enforce someone to stick with a country where they don't want to go? They are free persons you know?

Plus, you speaking about refugees. that's another question than immigration, an entirely different matte both by dealing with it, and in long term effects. We got an refugee crisis, to talk about immigration, is nonsense. Refugees are not immigrants, and whomever entered during this mess to the EU are in principle is refugee from a war torn country, but acting as an immigrant, and dealt by the same manner.

Seriously?
What the hell???

1.
The Cost is supposed to Pay that another Country which is Preventing this Refugee from walking to your Country, to Feed that Refugee for about 3-5 Years while keeping him under Register. And on National Level its pretty much Nothing.
Think about it. Lets say 1 Billion in 5 Years which is still an really Low amount for an 5 Year Period for an National Government. That would mean 6000 Refugees covered.
How many did Hungary have ? 1500 which were Supposed to go there ?

2.
Not exactly.
See Mate. The Problem with Refugees is not that they are hard to Catch or that they can evade Authorities well.
Its that even if you catch them you dont know where they are from and even if you find out that Country will just Claim he is not theirs and wont accept him back.
But once an Country has Accepted and Registered that Refugee. This Country will take him back. In short if someone from Germany went to Hungary the Hungarian Police would simply put him back to Germany. As simple as that.
Because well sorry but its fairly hard to find any decent job without having a permit to do so.
And an Refugee or even someone issued Residence Permit in Germany. IS NOT allowed to Work in Hungary and thus wont have this sort of Papers. Meaning he is easy to detect and will be out. Aside from being unable to steal jobs or anything in the first place.

3.
YOU were Talking about Refugee Crisis.
There is no EU Bid to Place Immigrant Quotas. Where the heck did you cram this mistake from ????
Immigration from outside the EU is entirely National Government. There is absolutely no EU Laws about it.

And Mate the last bit is Bull    . An Refugee which Applies for Refuge cannot act an Immigrant.
If he wants to act as an Immigrant he cannot come as an Refugee. Moreover Immigration Requirements are way bigger than Refugee Requirements.
The only thing you can get right away is an Residence Permit but that as well only Allows you to stay in the Country where you got it.


For Traveling around EU you need Citizenship in an EU Country. Which is not Granted Easily. And Hell someone who got Citizenship in the EU usually wont go to Hungary anyways.


Mate no Offense but you know that most of your Immigration is from your Government Incentivising Immigration for OUTSIDE EU Countries right ???

 

[Minonian]

Well, it might me nothing to a bigger and richer country but to us, is an unfordable burden.

And again, they are in paper refugees, but what they really want to immigrate to the EU. because you see? They are not getting to the refugee camp, or wherever you place them so after the war is over they can go home. Their intention is to stay, a lot of them is how and why they came, what makes them immigrants...

But know what? Never asked you where are you came from but now i pretty much intrested, how much is the average job pay on your country?
And just to get in picture why i said we can't afford this, the average pay is about 368 Euro per month and its awfully low! But the most of us gets much lover. now if i remember correctly the fine is about 10K Euro per capita, so the money you mentioned is about half of an average payment in 5 years. Our health care workers with pretty much with everyone else are protesting because of the payment and leaving to country because of the wage differences, and we cant afford to significantly raise their wages! See where i'm heading?

Lets say we need to pay the fine for 100 thousand refugee. Now in hungary we have about 100 T health care workers. I don't think i need to continue.

 

[Adept]

Hungary has a massive problem in the form of Viktor Orbán. The far right power grab has gone so far that the EU really has to do something to restore working democracy, courts and freedom of press in the country, or if that is the Hungarian people's choice, show them the door. The EU can't afford to have forces fully opposed to liberal democracy in control of member states. Poland is on it's way to the same place as well.

I understand that it's still relatively early in the post-Soviet development, but these authoritarian figures absolutely must go. If some of these Eastern European states want to continue flirting with autocratic rule they need to do it outside of the EU in my opinion.

 

[Patrick_68000]

EU DOMINOES: Now Hungary calls EU referendum - Hungarian president sets date for vote

HUNGARY is set to hold a referendum on the European Union's mandatory migrant quotas.

In the wake of the UK's Brexit vote and the decision to leave the European Union (EU), the Hungarian President, Janos Ader, has ordered a nationwide referendum on October 2.

The Hungarian people will be asked whether they want to accept any future European Union quota system for resettling migrants.

The question will be: "Do you want the European Union to be entitled to prescribe the mandatory settlement of non-Hungarian citizens in Hungary without the consent of parliament?"

The Hungarian Prime Minister Viktor Orban has fiercely opposed the EU's plans to relocate 160,000 migrants around the bloc by using mandatory quotas, but the scheme was approved by a majority of members.

Mr Orban has said that the vote will give people a chance to stand up for Hungary's sovereignty.

The Hungarian Minister of Foreign Affairs and Trade, Peter Sziijarto, said in a radio interview yesterday that Brussels must be stopped.

He said: "Brussels must be stopped, we must put an end to the violent immigration policy that is contrary to the will of the European people.

[up]

Always good when democracy works. Normal that the Hungarians decide how many people will welcome in their country. Merkel and Juncker have not decide for them

 

[Minonian]

Hungary has a massive problem in the form of Viktor Orbán. The far right power grab has gone so far that the EU really has to do something to restore working democracy, courts and freedom of press in the country, or if that is the Hungarian people's choice, show them the door. The EU can't afford to have forces fully opposed to liberal democracy in control of member states. Poland is on it's way to the same place as well.

I understand that it's still relatively early in the post-Soviet development, but these authoritarian figures absolutely must go. If some of these Eastern European states want to continue flirting with autocratic rule they need to do it outside of the EU in my opinion.

Yeah... This is what the Hungarian socialist party spread worldwide, and pretty much everyone belíve to them. You know? The socialist party whom done this with his own people. So much about them and our press in the world.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Őszöd_speech

 

[Patrick_68000]

A recent survey shows that 68% of French think that EU does not take the correct decisions

 

[Minonian]

A recent survey shows that 68% of French think that EU does not take the correct decisions

In the refugee crisis they are certainly not.

 

[Patrick_68000]

In the refugee crisis they are certainly not.

54% think that the EU is too generous with the migrants

 

[Minonian]

54% think that the EU is too generous with the migrants

It's not about generosity, but about the problems what they bring with them, and the tensions what they create.
On the top of the wave within one weekend about 20K Immigrant passed trough my home, to put in context this 4 smaller city, or the crew of 4 aircraft carrier. Too much to us to handle properly.

 

[Adept]

Yeah... This is what the Hungarian socialist party spread worldwide, and pretty much everyone belíve to them. You know? The socialist party whom done this with his own people. So much about them and our press in the world.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Őszöd_speech

I am intimately familiar with the situation in Hungary and the power grab done by the government. I follow the state of the EU quite closely and I have a good Hungarian friend who can translate the local stuff for me. If you support Orbán I question your commitment to democracy in general. It's a very bad sign when a party gets enough majority to change the laws at will and then immediately uses that to stack the deck so they can stay in power and change the rules in their favour.

- - - - - Additional Content Posted / Auto Merge - - - - -

It's not about generosity, but about the problems what they bring with them, and the tensions what they create.
On the top of the wave within one weekend about 20K Immigrant passed trough my home, to put in context this 4 smaller city, or the crew of 4 aircraft carrier. Too much to us to handle properly.

Do check out the number of refugees that have been settled in Hungary, then contrast with Sweden or even Finland / capita. The Eastern European states are wigging out over very low numbers. As usual it's the people who have the least experience with refugees who are the most against them.

And yes, the EU has behaved badly. We have betrayed our principles and done very questionable deals with Turkey. We have cut aid to the areas where the people are fleeing from, and treat them like garbage when they manage to flee here. We have also pretty much left Libyans and the Iraqis to their misery and chaos after having actively brought about that chaos.

The EU can do a whole lot better than this. We can't house the world on our subcontinent, but we can do a lot to improve things where the people are coming from. We can do our best to end the wars and put dictators on trial.

 

[AJW]

Ultimately it is for the Hungarian people to decide whether they wish to comply with agreed EU policies - and if they don't agree, to leave the EU. I can't help thinking though that this referendum is something of a stunt to shore up support for a leadership which has come under increasing criticism both at home and abroad for its autocratic behaviour. Scapegoating foreigners is of course stock-in-trade for authoritarian right-wing regimes who wish to avoid close scrutiny regarding their own failings.

 

[Adept]

Ultimately it is for the Hungarian people to decide whether they wish to comply with agreed EU policies - and if they don't agree, to leave the EU. I can't help thinking though that this referendum is something of a stunt to shore up support for a leadership which has come under increasing criticism both at home and abroad for its autocratic behaviour. Scapegoating foreigners is of course stock-in-trade for authoritarian right-wing regimes who wish to avoid close scrutiny regarding their own failings.

I agree. I don't mind if the people of Hungary and Poland decide they want to have a more autocratic model as long as it means they do it outside of the EU. I think it would be a huge mistake, but it is their right to make that mistake.

I think this isn't about the people's democratic choice at all in Hungary anymore though. The party has stacked the deck so that they can cling to power with the support of about 30% of the electorate (can't be bothered to check the exact number just now).

It's the old "blame EU for all the problems" routine which ultimately backfired on Cameron.

 

[Minonian]

I am intimately familiar with the situation in Hungary and the power grab done by the government. I follow the state of the EU quite closely and I have a good Hungarian friend who can translate the local stuff for me. If you support Orbán I question your commitment to democracy in general. It's a very bad sign when a party gets enough majority to change the laws at will and then immediately uses that to stack the deck so they can stay in power and change the rules in their favour.

Can i ask you whom he is supporting and what kind of news he translates? It DOES matter. (I think it must be népszabadság and other ex communist socialist party press...) You know? where you got from the info, it does matter.

Furthermore, as an example do you know whom is crying louder because of the freedom of press? Ildiko lendvai As a curiosity, i think its worth to mention, before the collapse of the soviet union, she was the main censor of the MSZMP government. YUP! You read that right! She was personally responsible, for the ban a lot of "culturally dangerous" literature, and one magazine. And also you got the news from the MSZP press, whom is the successor of MSZMP As is Hungarian szocialist worker party.

Here is her bio, sadly in the english translation there is no sign of the part i mentioned.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ildikó_Lendvai

Do check out the number of refugees that have been settled in Hungary, then contrast with Sweden or even Finland / capita. The Eastern European states are wigging out over very low numbers. As usual it's the people who have the least experience with refugees who are the most against them.

You know why? Because they just passing trough in there and targeting the richer countries, where they want to settle down.

Edit; I put this as simple to you as i can. In there the ex dictators of the soviet system, and their henchmen accusing our government with dictatorship, it a little bit funny if you think about it.

BTW? Welcome in the Hungarian political environment, what is more poisonous, than the poison of a cobra...

 

[Sunleader]

Well, it might me nothing to a bigger and richer country but to us, is an unfordable burden.

And again, they are in paper refugees, but what they really want to immigrate to the EU. because you see? They are not getting to the refugee camp, or wherever you place them so after the war is over they can go home. Their intention is to stay, a lot of them is how and why they came, what makes them immigrants...

But know what? Never asked you where are you came from but now i pretty much intrested, how much is the average job pay on your country?
And just to get in picture why i said we can't afford this, the average pay is about 368 Euro per month and its awfully low! But the most of us gets much lover. now if i remember correctly the fine is about 10K Euro per capita, so the money you mentioned is about half of an average payment in 5 years. Our health care workers with pretty much with everyone else are protesting because of the payment and leaving to country because of the wage differences, and we cant afford to significantly raise their wages! See where i'm heading?

Lets say we need to pay the fine for 100 thousand refugee. Now in hungary we have about 100 T health care workers. I don't think i need to continue.

Forgive the somewhat short bound answers and typos. I am on cellphone.

1.
Mate. You have a quota of 2600 people per year...
I think thats managable for A country with 10 Million People.
Paying the Fine would actually cost you much less than your nice Fence by the way lol......

2.
If they came to immigrate they shot their own foot.
Because all States have made their laws so that coming as refugee makes it harder to be accepted as an immigrant.
Meaning if they had any chance to get citizenship etc here in EU it was actually bigger if they had not come as refugees.

More importand however is that this doesnt matter because immigration laws are still done by each national Government.
Meaning it doesnt matter what they came for. If Hungary accepts them as refugees they can still deny them immigration and throw them out after three years. The will of the refugees aint importand to that. Sounds hard but thats how these laws work.

3.
Mate no offense.
But you got a quota of 2600 Refugees.
The Fine is 250.000 per Refugee.
Or if you Calculate it up. Its 65 Euro per Capita in Hungary.
I dont know where you get the idea that there is 100.000 Refugees being relocatet to you......
The total amount of Refugees relocatet is 160k and over 40k will go to Germany. Nobody plans putting a        g 100k people to Hungary lol.....

Hungary has a massive problem in the form of Viktor Orbán. The far right power grab has gone so far that the EU really has to do something to restore working democracy, courts and freedom of press in the country, or if that is the Hungarian people's choice, show them the door. The EU can't afford to have forces fully opposed to liberal democracy in control of member states. Poland is on it's way to the same place as well.

I understand that it's still relatively early in the post-Soviet development, but these authoritarian figures absolutely must go. If some of these Eastern European states want to continue flirting with autocratic rule they need to do it outside of the EU in my opinion.

Hungary is pretty central in the EU tough. Dont think its a good idea for them to leave.
They would be cut off pretty badly.

Always good when democracy works. Normal that the Hungarians decide how many people will welcome in their country. Merkel and Juncker have not decide for them

They dont.
It was decided by Majority of the EU Members. Which also represent a vast Majority of the EUs Population.

If you dislike the Contract you have Signed leave it. Just wanting the Benefits and then denying to help with the problems aint happening.

It's not about generosity, but about the problems what they bring with them, and the tensions what they create.
On the top of the wave within one weekend about 20K Immigrant passed trough my home, to put in context this 4 smaller city, or the crew of 4 aircraft carrier. Too much to us to handle properly.

Keyword is *passed through* likely on their way to Germany and Sweden lol.
This has nothing to do with EU regulations tough.
You allowing these 20k to pass there was your government alone.

Ultimately it is for the Hungarian people to decide whether they wish to comply with agreed EU policies - and if they don't agree, to leave the EU. I can't help thinking though that this referendum is something of a stunt to shore up support for a leadership which has come under increasing criticism both at home and abroad for its autocratic behaviour. Scapegoating foreigners is of course stock-in-trade for authoritarian right-wing regimes who wish to avoid close scrutiny regarding their own failings.

Well to begin with the referendum is meaningless.
Its not about leaving the EU.
And Hungary was democratically outvoted.
The EU wont change something that was decided by majority of the EU due to an Majority in a single State.

Orban is trying to get publicity with a Referendum which means nothing which has a very biased question and which he knows will be voted with an majority in his favor.
And as the Hungarian Government is already opposing the EU Quota the Referendums demand is already fullfilled before its even held lol.

 

[Minonian]

I think it's worth to mention whole E europe is opposing the current way how the migration is handled, and even in W Europe the majority of the people is not too happy about it.