I Did Some Investigation Into Queue Scenery

This was discussed in another thread, and at the end of the day the conclusion is to just remove it from the game. It serves no purpose other than to annoy you with another pointless objective that's easily rigged.

This is what I tell everyone to do, Take 10 surround speakers, and bury them under the map around your ride, it will be instant 100% for only 100$. Now just design it the way you want without even thinking about it.

So for every ride you put up you now have to spend some pointless amount of time and 100$ to instantly get 100%. Diminishing returns would help but then people complain that they can't play the game how they want, and will just spam every thing they can under the map until it's 100% again.

Just take it for what it is, something that should be nerfed into oblivion and made pointless, focus on something else to give the game a challenge, and not just some arbitrary number of items one must spam into the ground below to achieve it. You will never be able to program the AI to take into account everything in the game, this is one example.
 
I find that if you decorate naturally around the queue you seem to get a reasonably high score anyway.

Very few people will decide to put down 100 geometry pieces because its the cheapest way to fill the bonus.

Plus if someone does play fairly and makes a sculpture with 100 geometry pieces I imagine that took work and looks good to them, so why not reward that. It might have been cheap to build, but it took time and effort. It's hard to make those pieces look like much, fair play to anyone who can use them in their park (i've yet to build anything at all with them).

I don't see that this needs to be a complicated metric. If you have lots of scenery around your queue then people enjoy it. There is little/no way to judge if you've actually made something that someone would want to queue in.

As for the gold chest being a cheat, if the game was properly balanced so it was actually hard to earn $10,000 (the price of a big coaster, real world money you are talking millions) ... fair enough if you've earnt that much and want to spend it on getting a good rating for that ride.

Someone stuck a gold chest worth millions in a queue, i'd probably enjoy marveling at it too. Would i rather go on the coaster or 5 flat rides they bought with the money, maybe.
 
I just find the system fine as it is. If people want to cheat it, they will always find a way.

This is a game to have fun, build and manage.

And if you and to add extra difficulty, as Bitter Jeweler said you can do it through financial stuff. So those who enjoy challenges can choose specific scenarios.
 
Is it possible at some point that the game takes duplication of items into account?

It is possible but my testing showed no indication of that at all.

This was discussed in another thread, and at the end of the day the conclusion is to just remove it from the game. It serves no purpose other than to annoy you with another pointless objective that's easily rigged.

This is what I tell everyone to do, Take 10 surround speakers, and bury them under the map around your ride, it will be instant 100% for only 100$. Now just design it the way you want without even thinking about it.

So for every ride you put up you now have to spend some pointless amount of time and 100$ to instantly get 100%. Diminishing returns would help but then people complain that they can't play the game how they want, and will just spam every thing they can under the map until it's 100% again.

Just take it for what it is, something that should be nerfed into oblivion and made pointless, focus on something else to give the game a challenge, and not just some arbitrary number of items one must spam into the ground below to achieve it. You will never be able to program the AI to take into account everything in the game, this is one example.

I didn't realise this has been discussed or shown, there is a lot of media and stuff right now so I wasn't sure. I actually did use the speakers but forgot to mention it in the video, silly me.

I just find the system fine as it is. If people want to cheat it, they will always find a way.

This is a game to have fun, build and manage.

And if you and to add extra difficulty, as Bitter Jeweler said you can do it through financial stuff. So those who enjoy challenges can choose specific scenarios.

I agree with this. Just to be clear I'm not a huge advocate of changing the system, unless something obvious would be an improvement. I thought diminsihing returns could help slightly but everything has possible flaws. The system is fit enough for purpose.
 
Note: I only really play Challenge mode.

So, I've been thinking about this a lot. The reason this problem exists is the Peeps don't have enough desires. Why don't teenage boys turn up looking for sci fi themed scenery? Why doesn't dad want a Western thrill ride? You should be free to exercise your creative freedom, but you should also be encouraged to build your rides to appeal to certain customers, at least in Challenge mode. Go ahead and build the perfect fairy castle, but don't expect it to appeal to everyone the same.

This problem is evident through the whole game. Why is mum happy to eat the same burger as the kids? She should love pickles but not like cheese very much. What if she hates cheese but all your burgers are cheese burgers?

Why don't kids turn up hoping for balloons? Why doesn't Dad turn up looking for a wooden coaster? Why doesn't my wife turn up looking for 5 hats, an atm, then 5 more hats?

Ultimately it's the lack of peeps individual desires that makes this game as shallow as it is right now.

Tldr: Peeps need scenery desires to add more depth to queue scenery placement.
 
does anyone have an answer to why my que scenery rating says 0 in red and won't let my coaster open, the coaster is loaded with scenery.
 
With this suggestion, you will now require large mansions be built at every ride ticket booth. What if people don't want to do that for every ride?
But what is the benefit of scenery? I have never seen a customer refuse to go on a ride for the stated reason that it lacks scenery. Instead, they think the line is too long. Perhaps adding scenery makes customers more willing to wait in line longer, but I actually think that's counter-productive. The longer a customer spends waiting in queue, the less time he has to spend his money on my other stuff. If he thinks a ride's line is too long, that's fine, he can go buy a burger, use the pay toilet, pay the service fee at the ATM, or something ;).
 
But what is the benefit of scenery? I have never seen a customer refuse to go on a ride for the stated reason that it lacks scenery. Instead, they think the line is too long. Perhaps adding scenery makes customers more willing to wait in line longer, but I actually think that's counter-productive. The longer a customer spends waiting in queue, the less time he has to spend his money on my other stuff. If he thinks a ride's line is too long, that's fine, he can go buy a burger, use the pay toilet, pay the service fee at the ATM, or something ;).

Scenery ratings for both the queue, and track, does seem to effect popularity, and it definitely allows you to charge more for the ride.
I have seen guest thoughts relating to the "looks" of things, including "That's ugly" regarding an undecorated ATM. They generally are not what pop up in a coasters info panel though. You need to look at Peep thoughts in their info panel.


When a customer waits in line, their "needs" fall, and they often head to need fulfillment as soon as they get off the ride.
I witnessed this last night, as I watch a guy get off a coaster, and was "looking around" for something.
Turns out he was thirsty, hungry, had low energy, and needed to pee.
I followed him, and he met all those needs. He bought a drink, then a hamburger, walking around with both in hand, then went to the toilets, then sat on a bench.
Needs met.

He then went to ride my $25 very well themed coaster for the third time.

So your customer just walking around might not be more likely to buy at your shops until their need levels fall to a certain point anyway. Waiting in line, lets them fall.
 
There's no great way for a computer to determine if scenery is 'good' or 'pretty', so for the sake of creative game play, I would guess the developers decided to just care about quantity. Yes, this can be 'gamed' by placing a bunch of speakers, but it's a sacrifice for the creative side which outweighs the other option.

I think that the queue scenery should accomplish a couple basic things, and I think the current system tries, but there's odd bugs and behaviors that are effecting it. A queue with a high scenery score should:
1. Slow down the happiness loss while a guest is waiting in line.
2. Increase a guest's queue time limit (not queue LENGTH, which should have no effect to a guest IMO).
3. Increase the amount of money a guest is willing to spend on a ride.

The amount of the effect would need to be tweaked, but that's kind of what the game designer should be doing. Balancing the numbers behind the code to make the game play fun and balanced. You could even get fancy and make the change values vary based on the type of ride. A flat ride with Medium scenery isn't as much of a gain/loss vs a coaster, but again, that would be up the a designer to tweak the numbers.
 
Scenery ratings for both the queue, and track, does seem to effect popularity, and it definitely allows you to charge more for the ride.
I have seen guest thoughts relating to the "looks" of things, including "That's ugly" regarding an undecorated ATM. They generally are not what pop up in a coasters info panel though. You need to look at Peep thoughts in their info panel.

Yeah, I do a LOT of "opinion polls" and also check what rides they've been on already and where they're spending their money. When a ride is very new, I watch the exiting customers mostly to see what they thought about it. Once it's been running a month or 2, I pay more attention to those in the queue. I'm especially curious about those who walk up to the entrance then walk away without riding. I want to know what changed their minds. It's always "the queue is too long", never "this ride is so ugly I can't bear to ride it". And different customers have different tolerances for line length. Some will bail with hardly anybody in line, others only if the queue is totally full back to the main path. The moral of the story is, you can't please everybody.

But back to scenery in general. I've been doing a lot of sandbox lately with zero decorations at all. Just using stock rides and shops plus a few bare naked coasters I make myself. From this it appears that a good mix of rides appealing to all audiences, good housekeeping, and plenty of benches trumps everything else. In the park overview, overall guest happiness is always 80-90% and the top comments are complimentary, mostly saying how great the park or certain rides are. Also mixed in with the top comments are that the park could use more decoration but this doesn't seem to have any significant impact on overall reception of the park. Such parks still rake in the money with all prices left at default, including free park entry, toilets, and ATMs.

In other experiments, I've added just a few trees and rocks around rides, getting scenery values up to 20-30%. Just that little bit virtually eliminates complaints about lack of scenery and also starts getting some comments about how nice the park looks. So to me, going fairly minimalist on decorations seems to be all you need at most, and arguably you don't even need that. Which is a good thing IMHO because I'm not an artist or architect and have very little interest in spending a lot of time pimping out my rides. Besides, decoration carries high computing overhead, what with collision-checking, dynamic lights and shadows, etc., on every little piece. I've got a reasonably top-end gaming rig but some of the real masterpieces of ride construction I've gotten from the Workshop (with several thousand parts each) really chug my system, especially putting 2 of them in the same park, or try to make the rest of the park match the fancy ride.

When a customer waits in line, their "needs" fall, and they often head to need fulfillment as soon as they get off the ride.
I witnessed this last night, as I watch a guy get off a coaster, and was "looking around" for something.
Turns out he was thirsty, hungry, had low energy, and needed to pee.
I followed him, and he met all those needs. He bought a drink, then a hamburger, walking around with both in hand, then went to the toilets, then sat on a bench.
Needs met.

He then went to ride my $25 very well themed coaster for the third time.

So your customer just walking around might not be more likely to buy at your shops until their need levels fall to a certain point anyway. Waiting in line, lets them fall.

It seems to me that customers hardly ever just "wander" aimlessly. Usually it's only for a couple seconds immediately after completing some action, while they're deciding what do to next. Then they come to a decision and head to that location. As they head that way, their needs fall. If they come across a shop that fills a need, even if it's not yet totally urgent, they'll often divert there before continuing. After all, they usually have to walk a couple hundred meters to get to the next ride and there's usually room to fit a drink shop in there.

Customers seem to be on bell curves as far as how much money they have to start with and how easy they are to please. I think it best to try to satisfy the average customer but NOT everybody because at any given time, a park has an optimal customer capacity. If everybody loves you, you get more customers than you can handle without major increases in overhead and/or major expenses to build more rides (which also increase overhead). But if you accept that you're not going to please everybody, then growth is more controllable. So I just try to take most of the money from the average person, take some ATM money from the real fanboys, and ignoring the small fraction of sourpusses. And I believe using the minimal amount of decorations is a way to achieve this goal.
 
Here's another interesting thing about scenery.....

This is the 2nd Career Mode scenario, "Creature Awakens". When this game starts, you have only 1 ride in the park, a car track ride called "Kraken's Lair". This is a work of art, fully pimped with 100% scenery including very well-done special effects and overall atmosphere. But the thing is, except for the station, it's totally underground, encircling the central pit of the park. It seems, however, that its scenery value oozes up out of the ground to other rides placed on top of its tunnels. Either that or the central, tentacle-waving pit has a very large area of effect.

Check this out: On the right is a Rocktopus with my usual light scatter of trees and rocks giving it a scenery value of 20%. On the left is a Forge which got a 100% scenery value as soon as I plopped it down, with no decorations added by me. The Forge is directly over the Kraken's Lair tunnel and also has an LOS to the central pit. One or the other, or perhaps both, is therefore definitely influencing it.

https://flic.kr/p/PKDgP9
 
Yeah that'll be the underground scenery giving you that rating bullethead. This has been noted earlier in the forums. LOS does nothing unfortunately.
 
Yeah that'll be the underground scenery giving you that rating bullethead. This has been noted earlier in the forums. LOS does nothing unfortunately.

That was my suspicion. So, the moral is, you don't need to pimp every ride. Pimping 1 ride will do for all the others close enough. And to maximize this effect, pimp a wide-ranging ride that can influence many areas of the park.
 
That was my suspicion. So, the moral is, you don't need to pimp every ride. Pimping 1 ride will do for all the others close enough. And to maximize this effect, pimp a wide-ranging ride that can influence many areas of the park.

Or just bury some pretty stuff
 
Or just bury 8-10 speakers and get 100% scenery rating. CHALLENGE!!!

This is an interesting idea. It might be that the game engine is smart enough to ignore buried items for a lot of its CPU/GPU-intensive calculations (such as dynamic light and shadows). If so, then this might allow folks with marginal computers or lack of artistic desire or talent to still get the gameplay benefit of full decorations.
 
There's no great way for a computer to determine if scenery is 'good' or 'pretty', so for the sake of creative game play, I would guess the developers decided to just care about quantity. Yes, this can be 'gamed' by placing a bunch of speakers, but it's a sacrifice for the creative side which outweighs the other option.

I didn't think the devs cared much about it. Then I came across this interesting statement found in an interview by Angelis. Apparently Frontier had written code for judging rollercoasters and were going to apply this to scenery as well:

It [=the programme they coded] was based, how compact the coaster was, how many undulations do they have, was it repetitive, ummm. All these things that we did, and all that learning, we're going apply. So that's just how we're going to judge the coasters in the game; using that learning from that heuristic, 10 years ago. We're going to apply a similar strategy, that's how you judge an amusement ride, that's how you judge a piece of a building that you've made, that's how you judge the layout of all your trees around the paths, that's what we're trying to do. We're trying go to that level of depth that, if you place something down the path will function well, but if you go that extra mile, spent that extra little time on it. You'll make those things, slightly more appealing, so that your guests will like it even more.
 
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Here's another interesting thing about scenery.....

This is the 2nd Career Mode scenario, "Creature Awakens". When this game starts, you have only 1 ride in the park, a car track ride called "Kraken's Lair". This is a work of art, fully pimped with 100% scenery including very well-done special effects and overall atmosphere. But the thing is, except for the station, it's totally underground, encircling the central pit of the park. It seems, however, that its scenery value oozes up out of the ground to other rides placed on top of its tunnels. Either that or the central, tentacle-waving pit has a very large area of effect.

Check this out: On the right is a Rocktopus with my usual light scatter of trees and rocks giving it a scenery value of 20%. On the left is a Forge which got a 100% scenery value as soon as I plopped it down, with no decorations added by me. The Forge is directly over the Kraken's Lair tunnel and also has an LOS to the central pit. One or the other, or perhaps both, is therefore definitely influencing it.

https://flic.kr/p/PKDgP9
It's being influenced by the store building. The scenery stuff has already been completely figured out weeks ago.
http://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=808586159
 
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